Still, it seems like a kind of distraction away from the core mechanics of the game.
Separate servers has been considered.
One idea was that the number of deaths you have would dictate which houses you would be able to see, and who could see you. So maybe the 1-20 death folks would be grouped together, and then they'd eventually graduate into the 20+ death group. Or maybe something simpler, based on number of hours played.... something.
After all, the new players aren't all that interesting for the experts to play with... they're just easy prey, maybe.
Sill, I worry about splitting the community at this point.
]]>I also agree that I don't think this game should be made much more 'casual catered' - Yes, when I first loaded the game before looking at any tutorials or lets-plays I was pretty overwhelmed with all the different building items that could be chosen, but once I got to grips with it, understood most of the game mechanics and made some decent houses the sense of achievement was great, matching my mind against the other top players in this game. The steeper the learning curve, the more satisfying it feels to finally get to grips with it.
I think the comments that the people who tend to gravitate to this game are generally interested in engineering, computer science, physics etc. could be quite relevant. I've got a masters degree in maths, and am studying for a masters in computer science, so I think that is why I became so addicted to figuring this game out when I first played it, wanting to 'master' the system. And if TCD doesn't end up with a huge mass-market appeal, instead fosters a smaller, more inquisitive and creative group of fans, I think that would probably be a good thing.
I'm a humanities grad student and not that deep into anything mathematical or programming related etc., but the level of "depth" of the game is great as is, especially since the non-technical people like me can work with psychology and get quite far too.
]]>My idea is not so great anyhow because how does one enforce it? But I'm not sure what else to suggest.
The problem is that making houses that are difficult to newer players is harmful to the game, but advantageous to the players doing it. It's similar to reasons why the recession hit America - banks were harming the financial system, but had no incentive to stop because they were making boatloads of cash.
This is a great analogy.
]]>An ideal system would result in a supply of novel, yet solvable houses, where the incentive is to making houses that are interesting.
]]>AGO, you raise fair points, but I think the issue here is that nobody really knows how to solve the problems you are pointing out. You haven't really suggested anything yourself that hasn't already been tried.
My own opinion on this matter is that this game simply requires a greater degree of commitment and thoughtfulness than the average Joe gamer is willing to put up with. It ends up attracting and keeping the sort of people who are good at building and figuring out tricky houses, while discouraging everyone else. I have definitely noticed that those of us who have really gotten into the game and post here regularly are a highly self selected niche - by no means a fair sampling. Most of the people here seem to have backgrounds in computer science, engineering, physics or are pursuing graduate degrees of some sort. I have a PhD in physics myself, and I remember seeing another person post here that he is working on a PhD in physics. When you're playing a game with complex wiring and interactions and you're having to compete with someone who is, e.g. an electrical engineer in real life, it's not that surprising that it's going to be tough.
Perhaps a possible solution to this would be to establish several different servers occupied by players at different skill levels. If there was a "beginner's" server, then newcomers would have a less harsh place to learn the basics and develop strategies.
]]>Maybe the flow should increase slowly over time, as the value of your house increases.... like "interest" on the money in your house. That way, if you're a new player with a low level house, your house won't rise in value so quickly, so it won't become worth robbing so quickly.
Having salary based off house value is a neat idea. Have a low base salary that everybody earns, plus interest gained on your cash balance. It would certainly help keep fresh houses off the radar for a little while!
I dare say there might need to be some kind of mansion tax, as at 10% a $45,000 house will be worth $443,238 the next day and $4,365,776 the day after that. I think that kind of arms race might lead to some unpleasant despotism.
]]>I'm wondering if the rate at which money flows into the game is a problem.
Maybe the flow should increase slowly over time, as the value of your house increases.... like "interest" on the money in your house. That way, if you're a new player with a low level house, your house won't rise in value so quickly, so it won't become worth robbing so quickly.
Right now, EVERYONE earns $1680/hour. Obviously, that has a major impact on low-end players (almost doubling their money in the first hour), and almost no impact on high-end players.
Could be capped at 10% of your house's value, per hour? So, if you have $500 left in your house, you earn $50 that hour. If you have $5000, you earn $500. Maybe 10% is too low.
Also, just a note about the history: the salaries really were added to attract burglars to a house over time, not to help the home owner build better stuff with more money. Before salaries, house owners would build with most of the money, and then the house would have $200 left, and it would just sit there, because it wasn't worth robbing, ever. Plus, no one had money to buy tools to rob it. There was a major money shortage!
]]>AGO wrote:I think you misunderstood what I meant. You can't keep a player base with how the game is currently being played.
I don't know about that, myself and plenty of other people on this forum seem to have stuck to this game with the rules as they are.
There is only like 9 people who are keeping up with the game. As they grow in experience they can enter a newbs house and say hey this will be easy. Come back with a hand full of tools and newb stomp them out of the game. You are thrown to the sharks from the beginning. Which is really bad for making and keeping new players. The lack of an in depth tutorial is a major factor. You are trying to balance a game with less then 10 players. Most of which have a lot of experience.
]]>I'm working on fixing that, for sure. I was just pointing out that it's more complicated than it seems, and solutions are not readily at hand.
If you look at the game Mighty Quest for Epic Loot, which is based on a similar core idea, you can see that they keep players by making everything "not real". You don't really get robbed and lose everything. Your castle isn't ever really hurt by other players. You can't really die while trying to get through security in another castle. Finally, security in castles isn't real or even up to you to design (you just select from pre-built blocks to string together).
My job would be much easier if I took that route.
But I'm trying too keep the game real and deep while also making it interesting to play over the long run. I want you to be able to build whatever you want, and to have a real, permanent impact on the creations of other players. I want to make a game where what you do actually matters. But games like that, where players have so much real power, are much harder to balance.
We've been through 15 revisions so far, and we're clearly not quite at the end of the tunnel yet.
]]>I think nerfing magic dances and other cheap strategies a bit more could fix this, then perhaps upping starting cash a bit.
Increasing the price on tools would worsen the problem from what I see. When people are starting out, spending $200 on two crowbars is a pretty big purchase as it means $200 less to defend your vault and family with. However once you've got a pretty much fully protected magic dance you are usually better off spending money on expensive tools if there isn't much more you can do to defend your home.
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