The Castle Doctrine Forums

@LordofHam, you are making yourself look more ignorant with every post.  Let me put it into simple English you might be able to understand.

I have a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Maybe, maybe not.  Without more information it's impossible to tell.
I eat with a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Yes.

Now swap the word 'fork' for 'dual account' and the word 'eat' with the word 'cheat' and you might possibly understand.

Edit:
Previous post you may have missed through Ham's spamfest.
@Blip @LordofHam, wow, sorry, I didn't realise English isn't your first language.  Let me explain.  Every instance you've highlighted is cheating WITH a dual account.  Nowhere does it say that just HAVING a dual account is cheating.  If you can't understand that then I see why you're having trouble grasping the other basic points.

Okay, I am beginning to understand.  Some of the forum users listed are not advocates of dual accounts and I apologise for labelling you in that way.  However, you are still part of the problem.

You are the people who say dual accounts can't be stopped so why bother trying.  This is akin to giving up and I feel sorry for you for that.

Regarding the cheater who reached my vault, I wish I'd never included that in the original post.  It has given you all an area to focus on that is irrelevant to the point I was making: That the comments made by the forum users listed are damaging the long-term potential of this game.

Cheating with dual accounts is happening and players are right to feel aggrieved.  What they need are supportive comments. Not to be told "It's in your head" or "It's not cheating".  If we won't stop dual account use, we can at least comfort the victims of it and give them the will power to keep on playing.

@MMaster If you can tell me how a single account user can die in a house to a trap then rob it again within a couple of hours, I'll stop talking.

Please read Solution A again. It doesn't stop players having multiple accounts and it doesn't stop users with the same IP address playing.  It merely stops players with the same IP address from seeing each other.  You're right, this can be circumnavigated through VPN and the like, but this would at least add more cost and hassle to those wanting to cheat with their second account and act as a deterrent.

Solution B WOULD involve cost on Jason's part and if he wants the game to continue long term, that's what it will take.

@FreeLove, people are quitting over dual account cheaters.  How is that not a problem?

@Xandalis, you are trying to make it a matter of opinion.  It's not.  Dual account cheating is a fact.  The only debate is over the seriousness of it.  All of the people listed claim it's not a big deal.  As players are leaving in droves, clearly it is a big deal.

The people I listed are those I have observed making pro-dual account comments.  Some of them will be legitimate and I apologise to those players.  However, some, like yourself, clearly condone the cheating behaviour, yet try to dilute it by making false remarks such as "It's only cheating if Jason says it is" to feel better about yourself.

This is the problem and YOU are part of the problem as you are helping players decide to quit.  How?  Think about it: A player is convinced (rightly or wrongly) that a dual account user has cheated to reach their safe.  They complain on the forum but are told by you and the others listed that it's not a big deal, dual accounts don't make a difference, and they are just new to the game.  Then, the final insult, you give them tips on how to be 2k safe?  Of course they are going to quit!

What is needed is clear rules on dual accounts.  One method would be extreme: No dual accounts and suspensions for players with them.  I don't condone this.
What would be better is clear dos and don'ts for dual account users.  Those who are proven to break the rules twice (again after a warning) are banned from the game for X days.

Dual accounts need to be stopped.  They are stifling the game.

Please read to the end before posting your reply: A lot is covered in this post.

I hate to write this post as I love this game and the forum as well.  The members of the forum are always helpful and, aside from the odd Russian invasion, the conduct on the forum is excellent!
I, personally, have only been affected once by dual account cheaters, and that was a few weeks ago.  However, I feel strongly enough that the problem of dual accounts and how they are discussed on this forum has to be addressed.

As one of the majority of players with only one account, my enjoyment of this game was diminished by a dual account user CHEATING their way to my vault.  I am still playing as I believe I am good enough to prevail despite the cheaters.  From the low number of houses available now, compared to steam launch, many other players have quit.  This trend will continue and the user-base will fail to grow as long as cheating with two accounts remains a viable option.

Furthermore, the rot of cheating has spread over to this forum.

Crazyace
LordofHam
Storm
JoyofTrapping
Epfel
TheRealCheese
Blip
Xandalis
Gyuri
Colorfusion
MMaster
Iceman

The listed forum members, including many respected and popular posters, are all advocates of dual accounts.  All of them have refuted claims that dual accounts are any advantage over single accounts.  Every time a player complains about dual accounts, these forum members reply in kind belittling the problem as nothing.  I suspect that every one of them has two accounts.

Now let's look at this further:

Cheating:
Some forum users have claimed that using a second account for gain in ways that a single account couldn't be used is not cheating unless Jason says it is.  Clearly this is a childish suggestion. We each have a sense of morality and know that every time we use our second account to refinance our main, we are cheating.  We justify it as just saving a little time as we could have waited for a fresh 2k 0:0 house to show up and get back in the game anyway.  While that is true, it's still cheating. You are removing the time constraint from that part of the game for your advantage.

Dual account users:
The forum members above may have dual accounts, but that doesn't in itself make them cheaters. It is, of course, how the second account is used that determines whether a player is cheating or not. If the dual account user has never used that second account to deposit 2k of tools into their main then they haven't cheated.  Anything else and they have.  While a minor way, it still affects the balance of the game and gives that player an unfair advantage.  However, this way of cheating doesn't affect other players directly: It only aids the cheater themselves.

Bad Dual account users:
The biggest problem is dual account users who cheat in ways that directly affect other players.  I'm specifically talking about players who use their alt account to explore with 2k of tools on any house without consequence.  Then, if they find the vault, commit suicide in that house before returning with their main account to sweep the vault.  It is this that is killing the game.

Excuses:
The forum members above have excused this heinous crime as 'perhaps coincidence'.  If this were true, then Castle Doctrine must be the most serendipitous game in history.
The form members excuse the crime as 'perhaps two brothers'.  More possible, yet still cheating (using two accounts for gain one account couldn't) and also very unlikely.  Unless those brothers were specifically working together (when, from the experience of having three brothers myself, they would more likely be competing to make the best house), the precision and speed with which these robberies are committed suggest that it is a single player doing the crime.
The forum members also say it is our fault that we were robbed like that!  Our house was too easy to rob.  Insulting!  Just because the forum members have been playing the game for longer, that doesn't mean they know more than every other player out there.  I wonder how far up the rankings these forum members would get without two accounts.

"You should make your house 2k safe," they say.  Once you have a house that can't easily be robbed, it is easy to make these claims.  However, as it costs 2k minimum to decent house, you need to either rob others or wait before you can afford such a house.

The reality is that there is no such thing as a 2k safe house: Every unbroken house can be solved for nothing.  The likelihood of that happening is what is important. I created a cheap house that, by luck alone, only one in 1024 people would get through.  With some luck, one 2k robber got close enough to see the vault.  The next robber in brought exactly 2 water and 2 wire cutters into a house he had never set foot in before and correctly risked his account and completed a magic dance to reach the vault.  All to successfully rob 4k.  The robber himself had a 35k house.

Jason:
What is actually making things worse is that Jason has not frowned upon dual account users.  Perhaps this is a throw back to when the community for the game was smaller.  What this is doing is stagnating the game.  While the chills have made some difference, dual accounts still cause major problems.  Until this is acknowledged as a problem, the userbase will continue to shrink.

The player base:
There are the old players, the forum kings who have two accounts and can do anything they want.  There are the new steam users who threw their money at the game to become the best. Then there are the honest players who play the game as was originally intended with just one account.  Finally there are the newest players, those just starting out for whom the learning curve will be the steepest.  As time goes on, the new players will dry up, the single account players will quit, and the new dual account players will merge with the older players into one group.  The game will revert to pre-steam days and never grow.

Solutions:
*First, the problem of dual accounts MUST be seen as a problem that needs solving by Jason.  Until he acknowledges it and asks for help, things will not get better.

*Second, dual accounts should NOT be banned.  I am NOT calling for a ban on dual account ownership.  Dual accounts IS a way to support Jason and can allow you to both build a house and go robbing without consequences.

*Third many forum users have already written many solutions to the problem of dual accounts.  Just search 'dual accounts' for a list of forum threads where the issue is discussed.  The simplest solution is to have one account per IP address, but this causes obvious problems where two brothers genuinely both have an account.  The best solution would be a complaint system and monitoring system.  If a player suspects multi-account cheating, they report the two player names.  Jason (or staff) check the player names and if they share an IP address, they are punished (banned / suspended... another discussion).  Obviously this also has problems as it would mean Jason would need to spend money or time monitoring this.

Finally:
I return to the forum members listed in this thread. While what I have written is harsh on you, and some of you will feel victimised (perhaps because you have just one account or you haven't abused your second account) and to those of you I am sorry.  However, I would like you all to think about the possible ways you could exploit your second account.  YOU need to acknowledge that they can be used to exploit the game.  Perhaps then, something will actually be done that could save this game.

Lord0fHam wrote:

...

Yes, but complaining about the complainers is just adding a layer of irony to this cake of **it.

edit: finally found 'preview' button