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#76 2014-04-06 19:57:24

JoyOfTrapping
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 158

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

In the mean time, please enjoy this humorous comic!

2011-01-10-doctor-cat.jpeg


YT: www.youtube.com/user/JoyOfTrapping - The Bushido Code of Castle Doctrine:
Death  --> Observation --> Knowledge --> Power  --> Application --> Testing --> Skill
Seriousness --> Caution --> Deliberation --> Clearer Thinking --> More Success --> Less Frustration
Lack of Attachment to Results --> Lighthearted Play --> Respect for Enemies --> No Anger After Failures --> Faster Skill Building

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#77 2014-04-06 19:58:40

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

@Xandalis, you are trying to make it a matter of opinion.  It's not.  Dual account cheating is a fact.  The only debate is over the seriousness of it.  All of the people listed claim it's not a big deal.  As players are leaving in droves, clearly it is a big deal.

The people I listed are those I have observed making pro-dual account comments.  Some of them will be legitimate and I apologise to those players.  However, some, like yourself, clearly condone the cheating behaviour, yet try to dilute it by making false remarks such as "It's only cheating if Jason says it is" to feel better about yourself.

This is the problem and YOU are part of the problem as you are helping players decide to quit.  How?  Think about it: A player is convinced (rightly or wrongly) that a dual account user has cheated to reach their safe.  They complain on the forum but are told by you and the others listed that it's not a big deal, dual accounts don't make a difference, and they are just new to the game.  Then, the final insult, you give them tips on how to be 2k safe?  Of course they are going to quit!

What is needed is clear rules on dual accounts.  One method would be extreme: No dual accounts and suspensions for players with them.  I don't condone this.
What would be better is clear dos and don'ts for dual account users.  Those who are proven to break the rules twice (again after a warning) are banned from the game for X days.


It's a trap!

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#78 2014-04-06 19:59:43

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

@Xandalis, I understand your viewpoint and it's quite natural.  You have two accounts and you see no problem.  Some people, myself included, are questioning the legitimacy of having two accounts and saying that some two account holders are cheating.  As a two account holder, you want to defend your position.

For the most part, I agree.  Having two accounts needn't be a problem.

However:

First, you get a second account and vow not to give money to yourself.
Then you make a mistake and die. You want to rebuild quick.
You give yourself a 2k boost.  Just once is okay, right?
Before you know it, it's a regular thing.

This IS cheating, but it's harmless.  I have no problem here.

However, some players go further.  It is those players who need to be targeted and what we need is players with two accounts to acknowledge this.


It's a trap!

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#79 2014-04-06 20:00:43

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

@FreeLove, people are quitting over dual account cheaters.  How is that not a problem?


It's a trap!

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#80 2014-04-06 20:02:20

JoyOfTrapping
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 158

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

Y9hsgx3.jpg


YT: www.youtube.com/user/JoyOfTrapping - The Bushido Code of Castle Doctrine:
Death  --> Observation --> Knowledge --> Power  --> Application --> Testing --> Skill
Seriousness --> Caution --> Deliberation --> Clearer Thinking --> More Success --> Less Frustration
Lack of Attachment to Results --> Lighthearted Play --> Respect for Enemies --> No Anger After Failures --> Faster Skill Building

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#81 2014-04-06 20:04:52

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

@MMaster

First: Jason's motives are clearly different to dual account users.  He has a financial gain from every player who buys two accounts.

Now, onto your more serious points:
You feel personally attacked.  If you read my first post again, I said that from your posts you come across as an advocate of dual accounts and probably have two accounts.  From your response, this was correct.  This in itself is not a bad thing.  However, the problem comes from users who do abuse that second account to cheat.  Specifically, those who cheat at the expense of others.

When my account was robbed by a dual account user, I was sleeping.  I left my relatively new account overnight and woke up to find it was robbed.  On tape inspection, it was robbed by a dual account user (currently under the name Craig Jason Phillips).  Phillips used 2k of tools from one account but got caught in my final trap.  He then used his second account, brought the exact tools needed and reached my vault with his main account.  With only one account, he wouldn't have been able to do this for 24 hours.  Time in which I would have further developed my castle and he would have had to start again.

As such, with my castle broken and no funds to build it back up, I had little choice but to start again (no second account to cheat 2k into my account).  Hence, the cheater with 2 accounts directly forced me to restart in a way that only a 2 account holder could.

This story has been repeated by many forum users but the regular posters call it nothing.

Benefits of 2 accounts over 1:
1.Start with up to 6.1k instead of 2k.
2.Instant 2k boost if your main vault is reached.
3.Freedom of 2k scouting missions with no need for a route back.
4.Two attacks on any house without consequence the first time.

I'm sure there are more, but these are off the top of my head.


Solution to 2 account cheaters:
There are many solutions and lots have been suggested on the forums already.  They either receive no reply or are shot down.

A. Block visibility of players with the same IP as you.  This would stop benefits 1. and 2. instantly.
B. Monitor suspected cheats.  If a player can show a video of a suspected cheat and that player is one of two with the same IP, give them punishment X.  This would solve benefit 4, when spotted.
C. Ban all players with multiple accounts (giving those with two accounts to ditch one of them).  This would solve all benefits, but obviously would cause friction within the community in the short term.

A. is an obvious one to implement.  It would be easy and reduce invisible cheating.
B. is tougher and requires maintenance but if the game is to grow, it is needed.
C. would be a last resort, although I'd call it too extreme.

You will notice that the recommended solutions don't impact upon benefit 3, the only honest use of a second account that I can see which you specified as your reason for having two accounts:

"I realized that you think that I support it - that is not true. I have 2 accounts because I didn't want to die with my main account when I had good house, but I wanted to play so I bought second account."

Also, on this same quote, please read my last point on my first post.  I added you to the list after your comments here: http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=2421

As with all of the forum members on the list, I am not accusing you of cheating, but advocating multiple accounts.


It's a trap!

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#82 2014-04-06 20:05:52

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

@MMaster If you can tell me how a single account user can die in a house to a trap then rob it again within a couple of hours, I'll stop talking.

Please read Solution A again. It doesn't stop players having multiple accounts and it doesn't stop users with the same IP address playing.  It merely stops players with the same IP address from seeing each other.  You're right, this can be circumnavigated through VPN and the like, but this would at least add more cost and hassle to those wanting to cheat with their second account and act as a deterrent.

Solution B WOULD involve cost on Jason's part and if he wants the game to continue long term, that's what it will take.


It's a trap!

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#83 2014-04-06 20:06:53

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

@MMaster, you are really not getting this.  My house COULDN'T be robbed within the time by any player short of spending a fortune on tools or being 1 in 1024 lucky. The difference to me is that instead of being safe knowing my house would survive the night, it was robbed in a way I couldn't imagine by a cheater.  The difference to me is time and money.  But that's not even the most of it!

The biggest problem with dual account cheaters is that they are killing the playerbase and hence killing the game.

Users who condone dual account cheating are also helping to kill the game.  It's sad as apart from this one major issue, the game and the community here are great.


It's a trap!

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#84 2014-04-06 20:08:18

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

Okay, I am beginning to understand.  Some of the forum users listed are not advocates of dual accounts and I apologise for labelling you in that way.  However, you are still part of the problem.

You are the people who say dual accounts can't be stopped so why bother trying.  This is akin to giving up and I feel sorry for you for that.

Regarding the cheater who reached my vault, I wish I'd never included that in the original post.  It has given you all an area to focus on that is irrelevant to the point I was making: That the comments made by the forum users listed are damaging the long-term potential of this game.

Cheating with dual accounts is happening and players are right to feel aggrieved.  What they need are supportive comments. Not to be told "It's in your head" or "It's not cheating".  If we won't stop dual account use, we can at least comfort the victims of it and give them the will power to keep on playing.


It's a trap!

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#85 2014-04-06 20:09:58

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

@Blip @LordofHam, wow, sorry, I didn't realise English isn't your first language.  Let me explain.  Every instance you've highlighted is cheating WITH a dual account.  Nowhere does it say that just HAVING a dual account is cheating.  If you can't understand that then I see why you're having trouble grasping the other basic points.

Give me a break. Logic must not be YOUR first language. How old are you? Two?

Every instance you've highlighted is cheating WITH a dual account.  Nowhere does it say that just HAVING a dual account is cheating.

What the fuck is this supposed to mean?


It's a trap!

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#86 2014-04-06 20:10:58

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

JoyOfTrapping wrote:

Y9hsgx3.jpg

AMWhy, please just leave or shut up.

Last edited by Lord0fHam (2014-04-06 20:11:43)


It's a trap!

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#87 2014-04-06 20:11:19

JoyOfTrapping
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 158

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

Fear not friend, he has already hung himself.  See above.  Painfully obvious to all at this point lol

Last edited by JoyOfTrapping (2014-04-06 20:11:49)


YT: www.youtube.com/user/JoyOfTrapping - The Bushido Code of Castle Doctrine:
Death  --> Observation --> Knowledge --> Power  --> Application --> Testing --> Skill
Seriousness --> Caution --> Deliberation --> Clearer Thinking --> More Success --> Less Frustration
Lack of Attachment to Results --> Lighthearted Play --> Respect for Enemies --> No Anger After Failures --> Faster Skill Building

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#88 2014-04-06 20:17:57

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

Also this one is funny:

Dilbert-How-to-make-a-million-dollars_o_868.jpg


It's a trap!

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#89 2014-04-06 20:19:42

AMWhy
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 432

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

@LordofHam, you are making yourself look more ignorant with every post.  Let me put it into simple English you might be able to understand.

I have a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Maybe, maybe not.  Without more information it's impossible to tell.
I eat with a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Yes.

Now swap the word 'fork' for 'dual account' and the word 'eat' with the word 'cheat' and you might possibly understand.

Edit:
Previous post you may have missed through Ham's spamfest.
@Blip @LordofHam, wow, sorry, I didn't realise English isn't your first language.  Let me explain.  Every instance you've highlighted is cheating WITH a dual account.  Nowhere does it say that just HAVING a dual account is cheating.  If you can't understand that then I see why you're having trouble grasping the other basic points.

Last edited by AMWhy (2014-04-06 20:23:31)

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#90 2014-04-06 20:25:30

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:

@LordofHam, you are making yourself look more ignorant with every post.  Let me put it into simple English you might be able to understand.

I have a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Maybe, maybe not.  Without more information it's impossible to tell.
I eat with a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Yes.

Now swap the word 'fork' for 'dual account' and the word 'eat' with the word 'cheat' and you might possibly understand.

Edit:
Previous post you may have missed through Ham's spamfest.
@Blip @LordofHam, wow, sorry, I didn't realise English isn't your first language.  Let me explain.  Every instance you've highlighted is cheating WITH a dual account.  Nowhere does it say that just HAVING a dual account is cheating.  If you can't understand that then I see why you're having trouble grasping the other basic points.

Can you name anything you do with a fork besides eat? Why would you have a fork and not use it to eat?

Now swap the word 'fork' for 'dual account' and the word 'eat' with the word 'cheat' and you might possibly understand.


It's a trap!

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#91 2014-04-06 20:29:31

poor
Member
Registered: 2014-03-23
Posts: 113

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

Okay, who's arguing what side and why?

I'm confused now.


"Safety" is relative
Current life: None; I'm quite dead.

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#92 2014-04-06 20:30:13

JoyOfTrapping
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 158

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

It's over, bro.  You've lost this one.  You stepped on that powered tile, and now it's over.

original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1


YT: www.youtube.com/user/JoyOfTrapping - The Bushido Code of Castle Doctrine:
Death  --> Observation --> Knowledge --> Power  --> Application --> Testing --> Skill
Seriousness --> Caution --> Deliberation --> Clearer Thinking --> More Success --> Less Frustration
Lack of Attachment to Results --> Lighthearted Play --> Respect for Enemies --> No Anger After Failures --> Faster Skill Building

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#93 2014-04-06 20:32:37

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

poor wrote:

Okay, who's arguing what side and why?

I'm confused now.

He was just trying to use fancy wordplay to attempt to trick us that he had never said having dual accounts was cheating. Just doing anything at all with the second was cheating (in other words, it's all cheating {by his definition} and his argument to get out of the situation made no sense).


It's a trap!

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#94 2014-04-06 20:32:51

Killer Mosquito
Member
Registered: 2014-02-28
Posts: 53

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

This is the greatest.

It's like watching a gun fight.... but one guy doesn't realize his gun ran out of bullets...


Unknown.... thanks Blip
Unknown again because I thought I'd go on a no-tool revenge run on Blip.  Silly me........
Never risk what you aren't willing to lose.
Be willing to lose everything.

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#95 2014-04-06 20:33:25

AMWhy
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 432

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

Lord0fHam wrote:
AMWhy wrote:

@LordofHam, you are making yourself look more ignorant with every post.  Let me put it into simple English you might be able to understand.

I have a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Maybe, maybe not.  Without more information it's impossible to tell.
I eat with a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Yes.

Now swap the word 'fork' for 'dual account' and the word 'eat' with the word 'cheat' and you might possibly understand.

Edit:
Previous post you may have missed through Ham's spamfest.
@Blip @LordofHam, wow, sorry, I didn't realise English isn't your first language.  Let me explain.  Every instance you've highlighted is cheating WITH a dual account.  Nowhere does it say that just HAVING a dual account is cheating.  If you can't understand that then I see why you're having trouble grasping the other basic points.

Can you name anything you do with a fork besides eat? Why would you have a fork and not use it to eat?

Now swap the word 'fork' for 'dual account' and the word 'eat' with the word 'cheat' and you might possibly understand.


@LordofHam, it sounds to me like you are suggesting that the only thing you can do with a dual account is cheat.  The majority of people here would disagree with you on that point.

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#96 2014-04-06 20:33:54

JoyOfTrapping
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 158

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

Killer Mosquito wrote:

This is the greatest.

It's like watching a gun fight.... but one guy doesn't realize his gun ran out of bullets...

Yep.  That is exactly what it is like.


YT: www.youtube.com/user/JoyOfTrapping - The Bushido Code of Castle Doctrine:
Death  --> Observation --> Knowledge --> Power  --> Application --> Testing --> Skill
Seriousness --> Caution --> Deliberation --> Clearer Thinking --> More Success --> Less Frustration
Lack of Attachment to Results --> Lighthearted Play --> Respect for Enemies --> No Anger After Failures --> Faster Skill Building

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#97 2014-04-06 20:38:38

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

AMWhy wrote:
Lord0fHam wrote:
AMWhy wrote:

@LordofHam, you are making yourself look more ignorant with every post.  Let me put it into simple English you might be able to understand.

I have a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Maybe, maybe not.  Without more information it's impossible to tell.
I eat with a fork. Does that mean I eat with it?  Yes.

Now swap the word 'fork' for 'dual account' and the word 'eat' with the word 'cheat' and you might possibly understand.

Edit:
Previous post you may have missed through Ham's spamfest.
@Blip @LordofHam, wow, sorry, I didn't realise English isn't your first language.  Let me explain.  Every instance you've highlighted is cheating WITH a dual account.  Nowhere does it say that just HAVING a dual account is cheating.  If you can't understand that then I see why you're having trouble grasping the other basic points.

Can you name anything you do with a fork besides eat? Why would you have a fork and not use it to eat?

Now swap the word 'fork' for 'dual account' and the word 'eat' with the word 'cheat' and you might possibly understand.


@LordofHam, it sounds to me like you are suggesting that the only thing you can do with a dual account is cheat.  The majority of people here would disagree with you on that point.

I think that all you have said (along with everyone else) is that all anyone does with two accounts is cheat. Can you tell me, o lawmaker, what I can use my second account for that won't put me in fucking community jail? If your house can be scouted with a second account (successfully), then you need a better house. Having two accounts is not cheating, it just accelerates the process of cracking a house. If someone cracks a house with their second account and then comes back with their first, it's no different than if they had just robbed it with the alt in the first place! I can (and have) used my second account, over a number of days, to get all the way to a top house's vault. Of course I came back with my first, but they still got robbed either way, and I could have just done the same thing with one account. IT'S NOT GODDAMN CHEATING!


It's a trap!

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#98 2014-04-06 20:41:18

poor
Member
Registered: 2014-03-23
Posts: 113

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

Killer Mosquito wrote:

This is the greatest.

It's like watching a gun fight.... but one guy doesn't realize his gun ran out of bullets...

It seems to me more like they're aiming at cardboard cutouts of each other now, and the guy who ran out of bullets also shot himself in the thigh while trying to reload.


"Safety" is relative
Current life: None; I'm quite dead.

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#99 2014-04-06 20:41:55

JoyOfTrapping
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 158

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

knockout_countdown.jpg


YT: www.youtube.com/user/JoyOfTrapping - The Bushido Code of Castle Doctrine:
Death  --> Observation --> Knowledge --> Power  --> Application --> Testing --> Skill
Seriousness --> Caution --> Deliberation --> Clearer Thinking --> More Success --> Less Frustration
Lack of Attachment to Results --> Lighthearted Play --> Respect for Enemies --> No Anger After Failures --> Faster Skill Building

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#100 2014-04-06 20:42:37

Lord0fHam
Member
From: California
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 487

Re: Dual Accounts AND The Forum

So… I'm hoping I'm the guy who still has bullets? Otherwise, I'd better commit dishonorable sudoku.

Last edited by Lord0fHam (2014-04-06 20:43:03)


It's a trap!

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