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#1 Re: Main Forum » On sockproofing » 2016-10-08 16:49:42

Wouldn't it be better to make simple changes in order to try to preserve the current nature of the game?  The 2000 at the start would be better if it was a loan and that only 1/4 of that loan would show up in your vault.  Secondly, the game scales really well until you run out of space.  Once you run out of space, it's only a matter of time before somebody figures out your house without any need for brute force.  In my opinion sock puppetry cheat is much worse in that it lets people steal money from themselves than being able to try a house several times.  As it stands, 1 person can try to rob a house every 2 hours now.  Adding starter loans to the game would preserve everything about the game and mitigate the side effects significantly.  Secondly, space is one of the largest other problems related to content creation itself because it limits creativity and it makes finished houses very vulnerable as the economic opportunity of robbing the house starts to drastically outweigh the cost to rob it.  Yes there have been houses that had millions and survived for a long period of time, but if people had stayed in the game they would have seen that the game has evolved and that even the best houses can be efficiently brute forced or even solved with a little dedication.  The problem is that typically a fully built house built by a good player will not last a week when there are other good players around.  Given these facts, I would propose 2 fixes.

1. introduce a simple starter loan in which you have 2000 to build but only 500 of that will appear in the vault until the loan is payed back.
2. Allow people to purchase extra levels (more space) in exchange for some amount cash.

I feel like these two things would seriously address a lot of the issues around retaining game content and curbing multi account cheaters by reducing the benefit to multi-accounting.

#2 Re: Main Forum » On sockproofing » 2016-10-06 19:26:39

One of the great aspects of this game is how far you can really go with your building and invention; however, this also seems to be one of its biggest limitations. Throughout my time playing, I have created and solved some very interesting puzzles.  When the game finally started to die down, I thought I had built something that was extremely difficult to gather all the information necessary to solve.  Eventually somebody solved it by meticulously documenting all of the mechanics and electronics.

This brings me back to another point, that basically every amazing house that I've ever created eventually fell.  Every good house I've attacked as well.  What I wanted to say after reading this discussion and thinking about it and my experiences was, maybe we are looking at this the wrong way.

My goal was never really to stop a map hacker... maybe I would confuse them with the electronics but I would never stop a motivated map hacker.  On the other hand, I always tried to build with the expectation that sockpuppets would come and try to solve my house by guessing numerous times (the other meaning of brute force) or document it until they are able to reproduce the system and get the tool less solution.  I was always much more worried that somebody would just guess the solution or derive the information through numerous visits.

However, what if you try to look at this from another perspective.  The problem is just that there really is only so far that you can go to improve your house.  One problem that you must deal with as a builder is balancing the number of possible solutions with the total cost to brute force your home.  The more space needed to re-inforce from tools, the lower the complexity of your puzzle.  What if there were a way to get more space either by increasing the dimensions of the home or adding another level?  The reason I throw this out there is because, as you say, the diminishing content in the game contributes to its downfall.

if we can build stronger houses that can withstand sockpuppets and extreme players, maybe then a set of really great houses can expand their wealth and become more stable.  Part of the problem is the best design will, in the worse case scenario, cost a robber 70-100k to rob, if lucky, much less.  At the start, building a house allows you to dramatically increase the puzzle complexity and reinforce your house and that this scales with the amount of money you have; however, once you run out of space, that pretty much stops scaling.  This essentially forces the rich to go around like tyrants smashing the growing houses before they have the tiny amount of funds they need to brute force them.  Maybe if we allowed the map size to scale we could change the dynamics of this.

This could really increase the levels of creativity far beyond what is currently possible within the game.  You could have an ultra rich house with 1 million in the vault that has large areas of space simply there for show and much more complexity and reinforcement than any design possible within the current amount of space.  At the end of the day it is all about reinforcement as I can easily make a combination lock that has millions of possible combinations.

On top of everything else, I can't imagine that would be very difficult to implement.  You could always curb sock puppets by changing the starting cash to a loan for 2000$ that can be used for building or buying tools (which must be used to rob), but only a small percent of it can be placed in the vault.

#3 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2016-02-13 17:08:42

williad2 wrote:

Lets talk about the accusation being directed at you

Your previous posts contains statements like "my main account", I deduced from that evidence that you are employing multiple accounts and yes... Cheating.

This action is counter intuitive to the games mechanics and disruptive to the gaming community.

I get it, exploiting this advantage must be really enjoyable to you.  It provides the illusion that you are "smarter" or possess a "higher skill" over other players.

I'm guessing cheating fulfills some deep seated void or masks some disappointment you have in life.
Or maybe you are so out of touch with reality; this is considered acceptable.  If that's the case god help you.

God... what a jerk you are.  Beyond accusations, you even go so far as to try to insult me personally.  Your accusations have absolutely no other evidence than that I happen to own two accounts.  Why don't you leave and go play terminal heist where there is not even a possibility of this.  Otherwise no matter what happens, when you lose, you'll automatically think it was because of duel accounting.  I know for a fact that I won fair and square.

If you read the thread and pay attention to my post and the actual occurrences that took place, you would know there is no cheating.  Everything was well documented.  The fact that I tore the entire house with 40,000 of tools and learned all the puzzles is IN the spirit of the game.  First it was cheating because I robbed the house.  Once the fact that I completely tore the house comes in to play, that everything that happened was well documented, and that it took me over 2 weeks to get the 40k in tools, there is no evidence to support your argument.  As a result, the issue becomes because I own two accounts.  Maybe I put a house up on my friends account because I love this game and hate to see it die?

All I see is that I robbed somebody back fair and square and then the response is to harass and bully somebody and accuse them of cheating.  GET A LIFE.  And then you try to insult my intelligence and attempt to make me feel as though I am some kind of failure in life because of a GAME.  I ask that you cease with these forms of personal attacks.

I know for a fact that cullman owns more than one castle doctrine account.  Secondly, there was an interesting time where he came into the house shown in the video above and solved it on the VERY first try with no tools.  Amazing right? Did I call out cheating?  No I did not because i have NO fucking proof.

It isn't about unfair advantage, it is that my house designs are just superior hands down.

What is your point coming in here and reviving dead threads in order to harass somebody with NO evidence? You just seem like a bully.  I don't take that kind of shit.  Show me the evidence.  Show me that I scout a house and then attack it with a main account because I just DON'T do that.  I actually love this game and have been trying to keep it alive, so I put up a house on my friends account.

#4 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2016-02-13 13:40:37

I call bullshit.

Lets talk about the story in this thread.  My house was robbed by passive for over 300k.  With the amount of money I had, I could have bashed his house when he had 70k easily.  Fact is, I wasn't even really playing much other than watching my house.  Therefore, I had absolutely no knowledge of his house this entire time.  I actually wanted somebody to rob me with a serious attempt.  When he came, it was awesome that he got my vault, so I made a video.  Watch the video above.  2 WEEKS later I had saved 40,000.  The proof that 2 weeks had gone by is in the post dates above.  If somebody is duel accounting, you can easily make 40k in a day.

Passive decided to accuse me of cheating because I figured out his house after a visit with 40,000 worth of tools in which I mapped out most of the house.  If you look at the posts dates above, it is proof that there was a two week period between the time when he robbed me and when I finally robbed it back.  Please explain to me how this makes me a cheater?  If Passive actually back his words up with actual evidence, he would show the robbery videos of me robbing his house.  He doesn't, because the videos would show that that I spent 40,000 tearing apart the entire house.  You also would see that I went all the way down to the bottom of the house to find it was a red herring.  Then, I tore through every puzzle except the last one on the way to the vault.  This robbery did not even succeed.  I died soon after this robbery trying to get more money to come back.  If he showed the videos of what actually happened, then he wouldn't be able to accuse me of cheating.  Seriously?  Get real ppl.

This is just another rage quit IMO.

#5 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2015-11-16 17:15:20

The stupidest part about it is that my main account robbery didn't even succeed.  It took me over 2 weeks to get 40k in the vault, so then I decide I should try to rob your house.  I didn't even succeed and, according to you, that is cheating.  Yes, I didn't even succeed and you immediately resort to claiming that it was a cheat.  Honestly, don't you think I would have came in with more money than that if I used duel accounts to seed my main account?

If I did I could easily earn 40k in a few days just by suicide in my own house, so tell me, how is getting 40k in over 2 weeks time so unreasonable?   Somebody comes in with 40k of tools now or later.  You had over 300k to play with, but somebody can easily brute force it with 1 ladder, a couple of crowbars, and a gun?  Not to mention, the house is easy to make progress in without tools, but that is besides the point.

I'm sure we'll see when terminal heist comes out... if Cullman isn't just some troll, because I'm starting to doubt that it is even a real thing.  And when it does come out, I have some pretty awesome houses to unleash on it, which is all I need.  Also, I am a damn good robber so, I'm sure I'll nab a good score and then build a baddass house that can hold a shitload of money. Bring it on.

The more that I do to play objectively fair from my perspective, you always scream cheating.  This is the most fucking frustrating part of playing with you. No matter how far I go to be fair or to go easy on you, everything is always map hacking and duel accounting.

I could have demolished your house when I had the 300k of money, but no, I sat there to see what you would do.  I gave you every possible chance to rob my house and when you did I made a video and was like wow that is great.  Then I decided to rob your house once I had accumulated 40k.  I didn't succeed, but I learned some of the puzzles of the house along the way and after I died in my own self test, I tried to solve it.  Needless to say, the puzzles in the house are too easy to figure out once you have seen them that it WEAKENS the house.  At the end of the day, I bet I would have solved it without tools in a few more tries.

The fact is the house is not difficult and could be easily solved with a few visits of a suicide robber.  All it took me was a crow bar and a gun and I'm at your vault.  That would never fly in one of my houses.  I could have took it there and there was no cheating involved, just knowledge that I had gained of your house during previous visits.  Despite the fact that I didn't take it, because I genuinely wanted to try to solve it without tools, you still resort to baseless personal attacks.

The house was decent against brute force, but it was not great either.  On the other hand, it was absolutely horrible when it came to a tool-less approach because you can solve both puzzles at any time without ANY danger.  The first cat puzzle is too simple because there are limited permutations and you can try as many times you want with NO danger.  The second puzzle is very easy once seen and can also be attempted with NO danger.  Basically the majority of the houses defense can be solved without ANY danger.

I purposefully design my houses so that a robber can't extract any useful information from a visit.  Your house, on the other hand, doesn't even attempt to hide information.  In JWG's house, it was extremely difficult to extract information from the house.  I had to rip the entire house apart numerous times to extract the information necessary to understand the puzzle.  This is the flaw in your house, it is far too easy to understand the puzzles once you've seen them.  My current houses and strategy are beyond this because they are harder to brute force, harder to solve without tools, and much more difficult to reverse engineer.

#6 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2015-11-16 07:44:34

First of all, you survived the attack by my main account, which there was no cheating what so ever.  My main died because I was futzing around in other houses.  At that point I decided to try to solve your house without tools, but anytime anybody gets anywhere in your house or finds your vault you act like an ass. I decided not to take it because I wanted to solve it without tools.

Sorry you just can't handle this game.  When somebody robs me I am overjoyed, but with you it is like you should be playing with yourself.

#7 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2015-11-02 22:12:47

Here it is for your viewing pleasure!  Note that the house is supposed to actually withstand more but I messed up on the bottom vault rooms.  He had a good shot at getting it either way, but it would have taken quite a few more crowbars to search every potential vault location.  There is 28 different vault rooms from what I can remember, and the minimum hallway path, it would take 31 crowbars in the worse case scenario.  So it would take about 100k in tools to gaurentee victory, if the house wasn't partially broken.  I knew it was a matter of time if I didn't smash the competition, but I really wanted to see somebody rob it. 


#8 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2015-11-01 23:16:58

Hahaha died in morales house.

#9 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2015-11-01 20:57:52

I made a replay of the robbery if anybody wants to see it.

Used a ladder to enter, cut all the way around the pits with saws.  Then in the vault area- I had messed up and my lower half vault system was obviously not where the vault was because the cat had not locked it down.  This saved a lot of work because it basically meant half the vault rooms were probably unused.  Passive worked the top vault area and just looked in all the vault rooms.  Half the map is dedicated to potential vault rooms.  Passive came in with about 70k in tools.  Was able to find the vault with 3 crowbars left...

Had I not messed up my map, he may have ran out of crowbars before finding it.

#10 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2015-11-01 16:46:47

I  suspected that you would come in soon with a bunch of tools and steal all of my moneys.

several ways.

Tools in my backpack when you robbed me.  Secondly, I had suicide a secondary account in the house.  There was also money in one of the other houses I must have gotten before you took it out.

#11 Re: Main Forum » The King is Dead » 2015-11-01 14:34:54

hahaha brilliant.  You got very lucky finding the vault only after you plugged 3 or 4 of the rooms.  There are 26 vault rooms so I was actually hoping it would have taken longer, but it certainly didn't help that I put it in the edges.

Also, I noticed that my house was messed up from the last time I reset it, the lower half of the vault room area was broken, which probably gave you some good hints...

It is funny too because I wanted to come smash your house so many times but I decided to see how long it would take, and what it would take before my money would be stolen...

ps.  Don't die.

#12 Re: Main Forum » how does it work? » 2015-10-21 19:35:18

mala wrote:

still... i can't understand how the power reaches the two sides of the door.
it would take something like that (ignore positioning)

but i haven't found any connection between upper and lower part in JWG design, they seem completely independent.
also, you can't use the dancing grids as a connection, otherwise they'll be permanently lighted up (if i've got the principle right)
so the connection should be somewhere behind the door.

or... is it possible to break the circuit into two separate pieces to achieve the same result?

I can vouch for the fact that the upper and lower part are COMPLETELY independent.  I still have screenshots that I took when I raided henson and tore apart the entire place, from which I meticulously built an entire facsimile.  I still couldn't figure it out really by looking at the electronics, I had to run around and hit buttons to figure out how everything behaved, but in the end I figured out the dance.  The top and bottom were two separate circuits.  The bottom was the main puzzle with the top being a separate puzzle that could be solved without messing up the bottom solution.  There was a huge flaw in the top puzzle where it wasn't even actually working correctly and you could just ignore the top puzzle.  When I did the testing and figured out the dance, I was confident it would work because I had reproduced everything tile for tile, and realized that the top was accidentally broken. 

There is certainly no connection behind the door.  The dance floor on the map transfers a repeating cycle, which is why if you cut the dance floor, the cat door opens.  I've experimented with similar maps already a few times where I use similar concept, different concept of course, and it can work pretty good.

In my current maps case, the house is heavily based upon JWG's design, but I've chosen to use a dance floor that is on a binary clock with trap/door electric floor.  Also, The cats will lock down the house if tools are detected by the security system.  Some of the concepts are identical while just using completely different mechanisms and techniques.

What you want to do is this

#13 Re: Main Forum » how does it work? » 2015-10-13 06:40:33

I can explain...

Its a double paradox circuit.  One on the top and one on the bottom.  Basically, the top one is off phase.  You can show similar behavior with this

Credit for this goes to Jason in this post … 4714#p4714

Check this out.

JWG was using something similar to this to power the doors.  Because electricty has cycles, the map has one button has odd cycles and th eother has even cycles.  When you take one power away, the game settles it down to unpowered state; therefore both sides are powered by repeating loops that are offset from one another by 1 in order to create a lowest state of powered.

#14 Re: Main Forum » Where did Heck go? » 2015-10-11 19:50:13

Not sure what your question is about?

#15 Re: Main Forum » Luttrell dual account ussage » 2015-10-10 18:01:25

Okay so the 2nd map, which is more like my current.  The upper part is all tool-detection.  If you use a tool, the door doesn't block the cats so they lock themselves inside the vault areas.  That whole thing is exactly the same in my latest map except I have 3 cats.  The lock is a combo lock where 2 buttons must also be pressed simultaneously.  The lock there is not anything like what I currently am using.  Overall the house is the same but I changed the trap mechanics and the entrance is wider so that the 3 cats all see you while you are on the doorstep.

The house is specifically designed to prevent brute force; however, not designed to prevent against random tool-less suicide attacks.  There is only one dance and it is conceivable that somebody could guess it and walk all the way to the vault.  If you try to cut into the walls to see the lock, there are many dogs and it should also be very confusing as to what dance actually unlocks the bridge.

#16 Re: Main Forum » Luttrell dual account ussage » 2015-10-10 14:26:18

Interesting take on my house, but it is definitely not a cat dance.  The house is a hybrid between my old combo lock house - and JWG's henson/price design. 

Here is an older version the current house I've already posted -

The point of the 3 cats at the end is to lock down the vaults, which will occur whenever tools are used.  I added the 3 cats instead of 2 to counter the flaw in the design that I was able to exploit in henson's house.

#17 Re: Main Forum » Luttrell dual account ussage » 2015-10-10 12:19:21

Which house?  I robbed a few houses yesterday but I did not scout with secondary accounts ahead of that.  Not sure which house you are referring to.

Actually I have 2 accounts but my secondary account was another established house.

All I have to say is it seems like anytime anybody gets robbed they come on the forum and start complaining.  This makes the game look bad.  I happen to have robbed Henson like 4 times, which was one of most challenging houses of all time, with tools 3 times and I discovered the dance and solved it without tools as well, and I always risked my main account to do it.  My point is I know what I'm doing and if somebody came in before me and tried the same shit, maybe that is what your house design is telling them to do.

#18 Re: Main Forum » Hard on our small remaining community » 2015-10-06 21:04:48

Hahaha somebody made a clone enterance to my old house!!! Brilliant!

If you want almost the exact design, check the henson robbery thread.

#19 Re: Main Forum » Hard on our small remaining community » 2015-10-05 21:11:22

haha awesome!  I din't know until after I died.

Your house is actually really good and I'm sure it will be awhile before it falls as long as long you are careful.  The thing you want to avoid is if it can be robbed simply with a bunch of saws.  Once the money gets really high then you should get more serious atempts.

  I built my house in a few days and then it accumulated money for about 2 weeks?  I had robbed henson after discovering the dance and then built it up based on the funds I got from the robbery.  I usually die a lot from stupid mistakes.

#20 Re: Main Forum » Hard on our small remaining community » 2015-10-05 20:43:43

yeah, I had like 50k cash and 100k worth in tools -  ~200 saws, ~20 guns, ~20 ladders and more.   I went in gibbings house with NOTHING after going in as a santa scout because I wanted to try to do a tool-less run on the house on a second account - which is VERY nicely built BTW.

Accidentally main account with no tools and got stuck in a suicide booth!  Clever house.  I could not resist its allure.

I'll still play but maybe take a small break for a few days.

#21 Re: Main Forum » Hard on our small remaining community » 2015-10-05 19:28:08

aha omg

Was santa running people and accidently santa runned gibbings with my main!

And to think I had over 200 saws in my vault.

#22 Re: Main Forum » Hard on our small remaining community » 2015-10-04 20:16:53

Haha yeah.  At this time no reason to do a self test because it has been completed ages ago.  I probably exited the game inside the house, which keeps you inside the house for awhile.

#23 Re: Main Forum » How do you invert the signel » 2015-10-03 21:23:46

like this?

With an inverted switch, power flows horizontally when the input is not powered.  When the input is powered, it disables.

Power goes left to right and input always is the top.

If you use a regular voltage trigger switch, it is the opposite, power turning on only when power is sent to the input.  Have you looked at the castle doctrine wiki, it has a few electronics tutorials there.

#24 Re: Main Forum » Hard on our small remaining community » 2015-10-03 09:49:25


You probably can't see the whole list.  The game has an 'anti-cheat' feature where any account's houses will be invisible if you robbed them and they died.  Its designed to prevent a player from continuously robbing 'new lives' on a secondary account.  This sucks for anybody who is not cheating this way and sucks when somebody can see your house but they cannot see yours.  It would be cool if the server parameter was changed to make this 2 hours because if you legit rob somebody and they die after (not uncommon), you can't see their house for 24 hours.

That being said, I have two accounts and I regularly santa run the other houses.  I feel that if I don't, there won't be any money in the system for people to actually build and rob and they will stop playing when everything stagnates.  The other problem is a lot of the houses are really super easy and I gaurentee that somebody else will just rob the money out quickly if the owner doesn't upgrade their security.  If you want to beef up your security, use powered doors that are locked from the inside.


Welcome to the forums.

I honestly thought you had robbed all those houses that had disappeared and that is how you got to the 20k.  As far as davis is concerned, the house looks like a dumb combo lock so it shouldn't last very long.

#25 Re: Main Forum » Hard on our small remaining community » 2015-10-01 21:02:16

That is my house.  I am sure it did not have 100k yesterday so must have been a bug.  The house has numerous innovations.  As you mention, tools must be used from the doorstep all the way out of the clock floor.  As an added feature, the house detects tool use and locks down differently depending upon if you use tools from the doorstep or not.  Locking system is somewhat obfuscated to confuse robbers who cut into it to look at it.  Either you use tools and it causes the house to initiate heavy lock-down, which will be VERY costly to brute force, or you do the dance correctly.  Once you take two steps on to the clock floor, there is NO other way back than to solve the puzzle.  This doesn't really discourage new lives but anybody with an expensive house would probably not risk the dance even if they saw the lock because there is really no way to test it without completely reproducing the house.

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