Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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Head south the right to embrace chihuahua and spot the double dog dance
D2, R6
Begin the dance for the bottom dog not to kill you w/ the first buttons.
R3, L2, R3, L2, R5
With south dog past the powered door, time to lock up north dog to the west.
L3, R2, L3
With north dog behind the west powered door, time do dance for the bottom dog again.
R7, L, R5
Head north and west to time the powered trapdoor with the cat.
U5, L3
Do a shuffle for the north dog to get past the northern 6 trapdoors.
L2, U6,D, U9
End with a Chihuahua surf to the vault.
L3, D, L, 3(RL) *surf time, U, L3 (end)
The chihuahua and cat leaps are straight forward.
The double dog dance iss definitely the most complicated set of magic dances I've seen, however the powered doors point you in the direction of solving them, which is why I said the entrance is the harder puzzle. The entrance requires you to know of two things:
1: Cat Dog priority
2: The fact that sight is affected if you are coming from the edge of the screen.
For number 1, you get a hint from the fact that there's already a cat in the pit on the south side, so a second cat being redundant is not a mistake this designer would make. It's intended.
For number 2, there are no hints early in the map. I knew because I had gotten to the double dog dance and couldn't see both dogs. That's how I knew the beginning required a sight shift.
Now hopefully your bounty is very large
.
the first one (edit time) to post a complete no tool solution gets my bounty
Full solution to entrance:
Enter, and send north cat south to block dog and open north door.
R, U12,
Chase should cat to north button.
D18, R4, D, U, L4, D3, 17U, 3(DU) *dance till cat gets button
Head east and cut power to the floor front the north.
R4, U, D
Head west then south to change the sight.
L4, D18
Head back north, then east, then south through the electric floors.
U18, R4, D7
Head west across the powered floors then south for a leap of faith.
R5, D4
The entrance was the hardest part.
After that, time the jump to embrace the chihuahua.
Then a couple magic dances and a "chihuahua surf."
Let me know if you want a full mapping to those as well.
You give it away already? I can look at your map. I figured out your front even before you posted it
. I like sight changes, they are an obscure thing. My hint of how to solve it came when I got to your double dog dance. Only seeing 1 of them meant you expected me to travel all the way down first. I can check the rest of it though.
PsyBlade,
Not yet. Haven't had the time to scout out houses. I like to start with more than the first 2k, but it's a matter of opportunity that I can come upon a house that's breakable with 2k or less tools. My last starting fund was solved with a door stopper and 2 saws for 8500. Add that to the 1k I didn't spend, and 9500 can get a nice start with a little leftover for pulling in customers.
Robbing is time consuming since I'm someone who will map a place out. I might write a guide on how I start from 2k. But it usually goes like this.
1. I do tool-less scouts on a bunch of houses. Recording entrances. Then suicide (in my own house). This allows you to do a bunch of scouting without having to worry about the 5 minute limit when you start a fresh house. You will still be able to visit these same houses in the next life (since you didn't bring tools or die).
2. Start doing tooled suicide runs to see if you can break any of them. You should have more info on which tools you'll need. Map as you go. If you don't break one, you can check to see if any of them have changed and try in the next 24 hours. These runs will not use tools to keep it safe to get out. Tools are used to get deeper.
3. Eventually you'll crack something and return within the 5 minute window of a fresh life to build out the house (you've already designed). If you haven't designed it yet, don't go robbing unless you do.
note: the best houses to target are the ones that were built on the original 2k and visitors die and leave tools, and they haven't been back to upgrade yet.
When I get something up, maybe this weekend if I have time, I'll let you know my value/entrance.
Saw you got taken down. I'd recommend not committing suicide since you won't have to buy dogs again. Well, unless you want your wife alive, you can usually get a donation to bring your $0 house up again.
If you are gonna ask for that, you might as well ask for it all
. (full rotation on other electric tiles).
There's plenty of time's I wished voltage triggered switches were not locked into only a northern feed.
shlam16:
http://castledraft.com/editor/MQl4ps
Here's a simple example of where a regular button won't work.
I honestly don't see why anybody would do this.
I'm not saying you would or wouldn't. I'm not saying someone would or wouldn't. I think it's irrelevant to discuss what someone would or wouldn't do. What's pointless to you may not be pointless to someone else.
I'm just saying it's possible because of what you just stated.
... Dual accounts lets me skip that waiting, and jump up to a higher wealth level quickly.
...thanks for writing this. It's cool that you use what I'm guessing is a research background in service to the community.
JoyOfTrapping
Your welcome. Although, no research background. Just an experienced programmer who loves games.
I think 2 accounts are totally OK. It offers no REAL game breaking advantages to noobies, and all it does for experienced players who have been on the top before is allow them to bypass the boring middle class.
Lord0fHam
Whether you have one person with two accounts or two people working together the advantages are just unavoidable. It offers big advantages to weaker and stronger players. I think the current mitigation isn't enough yet. We have yet to see the damage it can create in the hands of skilled players (or player), which is why I can still play. However, the possibility exists which I'll explain below.
...If there is someone as good as me and uses a dual account, he creates more wealth in the game, I rob him and profit from it. ... I'am still waiting for evidence that duals accounts where used in a game breaking way.
eppfel
I think you are assuming you'd get to see that wealth before you get wrecked.
Imagine this:
Some friends work together or one person has multiple accounts, it doesn't matter. Over some time (depends on the amount of people/accounts), they build a huge bounty on just 1 account (could be more than one but it doesn't matter). You can't take this from them. You can rob them blind, but they can just keep feeding him more and more clubs to kill off families. At some point, that bounty is delivered. And they take the new found wealth, distribute it across multiple accounts and collectively use it to wreck every house before you can get your multiple accounts or friends to generate enough income to fight back. The possibility is scary, isn't it?
Is being able to clean the house list game breaking? Depends on the game. In a game where you are supposed to be in fear of something like that happening, I'm not so sure. But there's no need keep waiting for evidence that the possibility exists.
I'm not sure on the fix or if it should be. A lower max bounty would go a long way. Removing bounty reward increases for houses valued at 2k or less would help too. However, I'm not sure how that would change game incentives for robbery. And it still doesn't stop a team from crowd-sourcing a map to just break you.
Mala... hilarious ![]()

Actually the cats in pits were courtesy of a previous robber breaking my vault. He gave me an idea to set up all my pits with cats and let people find my vault (most of my money in my backpack and wife). Wife gave me enough to build up that first time. I had a ton of cats you had to walk through, and bam theres the vault. You lock in the changes, I come back and restore my house to normal (hordes of pitbulls hidden away come back).
I was gonna release the map after you broke it. However, since I died with it. It's still good. Might rebuild it at a later date. I'm sad you didn't get to see my new front. Same puzzle, new choices. I had been wanting to make this final edit for a long time, but the cost to change would take me from the front page, so I was waiting for more visitors. After blowing money on your vault attempt it didn't matter.
And don't worry, I won't share the map I drew of your place unless someone offers me $100k to do so. I doubt that's gonna happen.
I know your earlier visits were just painting checks.
The thing about my place was that there were multiple intended routes. I had 6 locations for the vault to sit and used to rotate them but people didn't get far enough. Depending on the vault location, you have to take a specific route which was woven into the other routes. Although, taking a specific route in a certain direction locked other things out.
Your beginning trap looked fun, I'd have to review how it worked.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on my place.
Thanks for replying. I just died. My house had a good run. I would have revealed it if it had been broken, but unfortunately it takes the life of me (again). I've got a mapshot if I want to recreate it later. Might step away a bit, then onto my puzzle design. ![]()
Edit: Premature submit. Wanted to type out the message below.
I just wanted to say, I understand your want for fairness. However, beating the odds also has it's place. There'd be no underdog in a fair world. And I love rooting for underdogs. ![]()
And... dead. One slip to the left incorrectly.
Editing my place right now, you've hit 50%. Will be back after self testing (hopefully still alive) to respond.
... The only logical thing for me to do is to stop playing. I bet a lot of people will conclude the same way in the weeks to come. That, or buy second or even third accounts. This trend will not subside, and it will lead to a marginalization of the player crowd... I had fun while playing, and I thank you all for that...
Sorry to see you go StefanLindskog. However, I'm not sure on your "trend." It could happen, or it could not. The player base feels small already. As far as buying more accounts, I want to point out that using multiple accounts doesn't require you to buy more accounts (if you can make friends).
Also, more money and resources is always going to be an advantage in LIFE. It affords more time to dedicate, better coaches, more tools, etc. But don't let that stop you from getting what YOU want from the game. I understand if what you wanted from this game isn't here anymore. Hopefully there will be a mod that provides it. I still have yet to try iceman's mod.
My house will probably go down soon, W. B. Tedder is visiting right now, and I've got my next design waiting to be built. It's a house with different puzzle sections which will let you out after each section if you feel like leaving. Of course you can still die during the solving, but I was trying to find a way to build a house in this brute force world that can still present the puzzles I want to those venturing tool-less thefts, and I think I found a happy medium. I'll try to invite you when that happens.
Also, if you do decide to come back, I would recommend working on your robbery skills more. Spend your previous life scouting (w/out dying) for a new house. You'll be able to visit in your second life w/ the proper tools. You'll find that it's not too hard to jump start you income, you'll eventually learn which houses to hit and which to avoid. Take care.
p.s. Let me know if you read this. if not I'll send you an email later.
From Richard Jeffrey Ponder To Walter Bryan Tedder,
Your value shot to 200k over night and I couldn't resist. I'm guessing some people died in there, since the auction house has some more paintings.
I think I was about 8-10 saws away from your vault (had that ladder in my backpack to pass that last trapdoor). Don't know for sure though. (could you let me know?)
Wish I could come back and check it out.
Upon contemplating my next visit I went to check my house value. I sold my tools to see the total (I like to budget at least keep 4k so I can earn money faster). I usually hit the undo, but this time I forgot. So said.
My thieving resources have been cut in half since I'll have to buy my tools. Which means... I can't visit for awhile.
Thank you for visiting me. It's nice to see more tooled efforts on my place. With your bankroll, I'm sure I'll see you a tenth time (just did a search for your name to see how many visits). You did your homework before bringing gifts (tools). Hopefully I can be online when you get halfway through and out again, so I can spend my money and give you new sections to tool around in.
I look forward to seeing the tape where you find my vault. It's inevitable. Let me know what you think of the place ![]()
Sincerely,
Rich
p.s. I'm guessing there's a northern dog for your double magic dance. I couldn't see him because of how I entered the section, you may want to fix that.
Edit: Changed Title to include both names.
... I just have one thing I have to question: does anybody actually have 3 accounts? I have two, and I know lots of other people do, but I don't know anybody who has three.
Also, no matter how much cash you have, skill is required to build houses and rob well. And with cash that is limited, as cash from multi-account stuff is, that is present even more....
I don't know who has 3 accounts. But there's there's nothing stopping someone with 2 accounts to team up with a person with 1 account to do the same thing and split the difference. The beginning of my post states that it doesn't matter if it's one person, or multiple people colluding.
I'd have to say that less skill is required proportional to more money that you can easily get. In any case it'll still be fun watching that tape where someone uses $5000 worth of tools to break a $300 trap. ![]()
Just sharing my thoughts on the advantages Multiple or N accounts.
These accounts can be owned by one person, or multiple people.
N Friends colluding have the same ability as 1 Person with N accounts.
I'll be looking at three different aspects:
Income - using N accounts to generate money.
Theft - using N accounts to eventually rob a house and or kill a wife.
Safety - using 2 accounts to prevent vault loss upon robbery death.
Note: I've read over the following recent threads along with older threads that I won't list:
This game is Broked
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=2421
Nice and Nasty Players
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=2434
Dual Accounts: As Bad As You Think?
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=2448
Simple fix to dual account bouty crock of !@#$
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=2447
-------------------------------------
Let's discuss how to generate income through multiple accounts and bounties.
Killing family members - $1000 per member, 3 per household
Breaking vault - $500 per vault, once per hour up to a max of 4.
(thanks to joshwithguitar for the limits)
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … 245#p14245
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … 295#p14295
Blip has made a post (http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … 342#p14342)
which mentions how the community can contribute to making it easier or harder.
We will take that into consideration and assume that all houses besides our test subject(s) have protected families and vaults.
We'll start with N = 3.
There's plenty of different more risky ways of doing this, but I'm gonna attempt to make this as safe as possible to establish a minimum.
Account 1 = Protected House that Eats
Account 2 and 3 = Feeders.
Feeders buy 3 clubs ($600) then buy 1 dog ($320) and walls ($80) to create a harder to reach vault of $0.
We are gonna assume that the community would not spend the meat and 3 clubs to clean these houses out.
And even if they did, we can just rebuild it to try again.
Feeders club and rob themselves producing a $3500 bounty per feeder.
They can rob each other 3 more times over the course of 3 hours for an extra $1500 (may not be worth the attention).
After suicide in Main Account, that will be $10000 per day at the minimum with no help from the community.
It's not unlimited money, although it's still a good chunk of change that could be used to improve a house or buy tools.
In the non perfect community, I'd imagine that number would double to $20000 a day.
If they can kill 10 family members each by the time their house of clubs goes on the market (5 mins).
(of course, you could do a scouting run for easy families before refreshing the 2k state).
20 Clubs = $20k in bounty
Is this an advantage? Yes.
It all the depends on how the income is leveraged.
-------------------------------------
N accounts can make N 2k attempts to scout a house with tools per day.
N accounts can generate some income and make limited attempts, but with more (say 10k) in tools.
In either case, the point of the attempts are to map out a house and find the vault faster than a person can make a change (assuming they could even afford to).
A clear example of this is when people crowdsource maps. They are using multiple accounts to collectively break a house.
There's plenty of links and I'll let you guys find these yourself.
Is this an advantage? Yes
This still requires skill to minimize the cost of getting to a vault.
-------------------------------------
If account 1 makes a robbery attempt on another house, account 2 can "sit" in account 1's house.
If account 1 fails the robbery and dies, account 2 can complete the robbery, and split the cash by having account 1 rob them after re-spawn. (or just switch who the main account is if it's the same person)
If account 1 doesn't fail, account 2 simply exits.
Account 1 will still lose the house, but his vault contents can be saved.
Is this an advantage? Yes
This may be the only one going against the theme of paranoia and loss.
This is the only reported case that I know of:
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … php?id=854
-------------------------------------
Advantages of multiple accounts will not disappear completely, although there have been efforts to mitigate (chills/limits). I've accepted that. And I'll still want to play until it hinders my enjoyment of the game.
I continue to play because I like watching people go through my house, seeing them work through the traps. The only time it would get boring is if they methodically broke each tile on the screen in the same way all the time (w/ infinite tools).
I continue to play because I like that feeling of dread when I'm in someone's house and could die at the next step/internet hiccup.
The game was set out to give you a sense of paranoia. The sense that your family and house is always in danger. It succeeds in that.
Multiple accounts don't take much away from that except for the safety angle. Although I'm not sure what you could do, except make a house's vault invalid at the moment of the owner's death, rendering any current robbery attempts fruitless.
This is not a competition among equals. This is a game where anything you built or worked for can be taken away with a careless mistake or an unfair circumstance/targeting. (I especially hate the internet connection deaths).
If you are looking for a fair game, this isn't it. Hopefully you can enjoy what it is.
To end, I'd like to share one of my fun moments of the castle doctrine.
I LOL'd when Welkin commented about a map of my house in his latest stream of Castle Doctrine at 3:00 minutes into the stream:
http://www.twitch.tv/akuwelkin/b/514402386
... It's an older version, but at least it is a map of this guy's house, which may have been updated since.
Quite in-depth. Probably this guy isss... he's got holy sh*t complications in here. Like, I'd have to blow through some serious stuff, so let's skip him for now.
It gave me a ego boost in my building design. However, it would have been even more fun if you didn't skip me, Welkin. I look forward to your visit and any other videos you put up.
Offering my thoughts against this idea.
You can check your recorded games for maps.
Not everyone will take the time to record. And also not everyone will record perfectly. Leading to deathly mistakes.
Auto-mapping during the robbery takes away the time pressure during a robbery. Do you spend more time mapping? Or just assume you remember the layout?
...I don't remember it exactly but I think you can get first cat to the button in top right and then second cat to the button next to it - that way you get the same result.
Actually, the way you said you accidentally did it, is the same way I did it w/ two cats hanging out on both buttons.
The sheer amount of buttons pressed on both dances were just too risky for me to try to solve.
As for the second magic dance, I have no idea. From just looking it seems like the final cat runs through the open door too fast to stop.
Yeah I would definitely just bring some saws and dog meat to scout out everything at the start. Because the wooden facade doesn't force me to solve it the normal way. MMaster asked if we could figure it out from the map provided though. So I figure I would include notes on the minimum amount of tools if you wanted to solve it using the buttons.
First off, you need complete knowledge on cat movement.
In order to discover the first part safely, you'll need two bricks minimum to open the east door and north door. This will allow you to see the cat blocking the dog.Without tools, you'll be able to see two trapdoors and work out the first trapdoor with scouting.
The first trapdoor is harder in my opinion, although you do get to scout it for free.
The two buttons on top have to be handled by the cats. The rest is pressed by the dog.
You have to position the cats in a way that as you move right, they leave both buttons in the ON position.
There's probably multiple ways of doing this, but I'm not sure.
The dog must be able to follow you to the right to press the rest of the buttons.
Keep 2 tiles distance by dancing the first button (on then off) to make sure he doesn't fry you on the electric floor.
One more brick is needed figure out how to power the second trapdoor.
Brick the cat in front of the wooden door to lock in the dog near you.
Dance the far dog stuck so you can explore the right and see the cat to reveal its timing.
You may have to invest in more bricks to be sure down or right movement doesn't change the timing.
The second trapdoor turns on twice by the cat.
After seeing the cat, the trapdoor is on at step 4 and 6.
I timed the second trapdoor to be passed on step 6.
This gives you time to dance the dog for the first trapdoor after seeing the cat.
Step list provided below (U - up, R - right, L - left, D - down).
1. Start by opening the south door then east door then north door.
R R D D D D R R U
2. Begin the dance to get the top two buttons setup with cats and the dog in position to follow.
D U D U R L D L R U
3. Sight the cat on the right and the space the dog for the first trapdoor. The second one will be on timing.
R R U R L R R R R R
Edit: Just realized you can't scout it for free at all. The sight of the dogs makes two doors into liabilities. Left the text but showed they are incorrect.
He should be able to get a screen shot by playing back the recorded game.
That was Noonan
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … d=2425&p=2
Edit: Well, a little late I guess. The real Noonan showed up to tell you.
Ah, so LiteS was in your house. Congrats, LiteS.
Ah, I wonder who he ended up robbing. Maybe it was a chain robber working his way to the top. Since I'm not sure he could get to $120K with one score.
After you scouted me, I've considered two options. Enjoy some time buying paintings and dropping my value, or spend my savings trying to find your vault and remove you as a threat.
Not sure what I'll do, half of me wants to see the tape of you robbing me, but with that much money, and your skill, I'm sure it'll just be visit/revisit until success.
Anyway, enjoy your monetary leverage ![]()
Edit: Either your editing or someone is putting some serious time into robbing you. I haven't seen your house for awhile. And your paintings are not on the auction house.
Darn, was hoping Michael Richard Murrel would be around when I woke up.
He showed up last night on the top page and I haven't seen his name at all. He had two kids sitting outside.
I think he was gifted a huge bounty and just started a house. I wanted to rob him but I was pretty tired.
From his entrance it would be a small investment to check out the magic dance compared to his listing. You could lock in any changes with the kids he left out front. I was gonna give it a go when I was fresh (didn't want any mental lapses).
I'm not much of a dedicated robber and I just like watching tapes. However, I do like to jump at opportunities like the one above. Congrats on your $100k bonus. I'm guessing most of it was cash. Since he was sitting on 1 kill when I left. Still, you've definitely got enough money to smash through most houses now (or sweep the auctions).
Just some suggestion on bounties, but won't be visiting this thread again.
Possible code change that would make it harder:
Only family members killed in a house with at least $4k value will add to a robber's bounty.
Thematic justification: (sad parallel), poor people can't afford to offer incentives for revenge.
Community change that would make it harder:
Start protecting your families, and clubbing easy to find families.