The Castle Doctrine Forums

Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.

You are not logged in.

#326 Re: Main Forum » I'm sad... » 2014-03-25 01:00:02

PsyBlade wrote:

Well I'm not going to pull the fangs of what proofed to be a really effective 2k killer. But I would love to know why it is one.

PsyBlade
My recommendation isn't going to lessen the number of people who throw themselves onto the trap, or just try to run through it quickly. But it will allow those willing to scout and learn, a safe and repetitive environment to do so.
It may also be that my puzzle involves a powered trapdoor, so they kinda can't get around it unless they actually buy a ladder. Who knows? All I know is I've had way more people solve it, even in different ways with tools which I'm fine with. Just watching them work it out is fun.


Killer Mosquito
I agree that 2k is tough to start with, which is why I normally don't. Next time you have to start, invest in a scary house with dogs at the front and not much money in the vault (this will keep people from making you re-validate your house all the time). GO SCOUTING 3-9k houses. You'll eventually find a house where you might get a decent chance, and you'll have more than the initial 5 minutes. When you are ready, suicide, start fresh, visit the house to make sure it's the right one, and then come back with appropriate tools with your new $2k. You won't get chills from visiting houses without tools. And, you'll have a better sense of what the robber point of view trying to solve a house on limited funds. Then you can start mimicking the sections you felt "safe" in. Consider them using tools part of the puzzle, because it is.


LiteS wrote:

Woah woah, I didn't mean to be insulting ... All I meant in bringing up the old one was that intentional communication to a robber is difficult, and even with as many house elements visible as possible it can still be difficult for a robber to work out exactly how a system works, especially when most builders are trying to be deceptive and deadly.

LiteS
There was no offense taken and I didn't take you as insulting. I agreed that I was naive at the time. I agree that even with vision it's tough to work out, and so I made my puzzles smaller and more in line with the common traps. The robber knows how the standard trap works, and just to needs to figure out what I've added to the equation.


FreeLove
I think I've come across that house, it isn't mine. And I like to refrain from putting a target on myself. You could always ask LiteS, he seems to believe he knows my current house. You probably could figure it out by the way I've described how I build houses.

#327 Re: Main Forum » House Design 101 » 2014-03-24 04:27:36

StefanLindskog wrote:

F. Lurkers: Cowardly players who seldom do robberies, but rather wait for robbers to come to them. An experienced lurker will be a decent robber, and will be doing a lot of low budget scouting.

Actually you are a subset of E. You have the money to do so, but just choose not to.

And I urge you to try robbing. Set aside money and tools to work on a house that has a painting you like. You can always play it safe, just make sure to watch out for any possible way that dogs can come between you and the exit.

Immhotep wrote:

There's also this G. Murderers: They will come in and kill your family just for fun to piss you off.

This just means you haven't protected them. Which means they are also part of E, i.e. they scouted a weakness and brought enough to rob your wife (even if it doesn't pay out in money).

Lord0fHam wrote:

Also H. Dumbasses. They come in your house and die even if they had a tool that would have saved them. smile

This doesn't need its own category. It's universal trait of all players. We all make a mistake at one point or another. I've definitely jumped into pits and forgot bricks can toggle switches. hehe.



Fallenone11 wrote:

I think it is important to note that the lack of diversity of different viable robbers shows an apparent monetary flaw.

While yes there are more than the listed types, but an ideal situation would have equal amounts of all. Being able to dock your cash on a and prevent people for profitably robbing you is a very counter productive game mechanic.

"Ideal and counter productive" are all in terms of what you think the game should be. You haven't established what is your ideal and what you consider to be productive vs counter productive. In any case, if you care to discuss that, it would be better in a different thread where your first post is a clear statement of
... a. the problem
... b. why it's a problem
... c. your proposed solution.
It would be interesting to see your take on how a tweak in cash value would affect the types of robbers I encounter in the game.

However, I'd like to keep this thread on building and progressing toward a completed house within the current ruleset.

#328 Re: Main Forum » I'm sad... » 2014-03-24 04:00:10

Lite S, As the title from the post you pulled it from, it was my first complete house. Which means I had little experience building and knowing what kind of players are out there. Also chills were not so long back then (pre-steam).

I'm better informed now, only because of my attempts and trial and deathly, deathly errors.

While I know the game is meant to instill paranoia, I still like watching the tapes to see how people approach the problem presented. So now, I just make a nice puzzle with no commit until you solve it. The rest of the house is for making it expensive to brute force.

I understand that designers try to bring their theme across, but as an individual, I like to bring my personality to the games I play and strive for my own goals within the system provided by the designer.

Your best contribution to this post is in your edit, mentioning exactly the same thing I've learned: If you want people to play with your puzzles, you have to make it easy for them to survive while doing it.

Killer Mosquito , if you want more robbers who work around and try to solve your puzzle without tools, make it so they feel safe not using any tools. If you don't know how to do that, you should do some more robbing so you know get the robbers perspective on when they are "safe."

#329 Re: Main Forum » Need some help designing a house » 2014-03-21 22:27:38

Lord0fHam wrote:
Cylence wrote:

http://castledraft.com/editor/J36E35

Just some leap of faith looping in the space you provided.
The electric floor traps never activate, although the cats will make cautious robbers wire cut through.

I made a post that may have tips that you are looking for.
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=2417

The thing is that the people had to go down there and then come back, so having maze down there wouldnt really serve any purpose, although i guess it would confuse people. I need a way to tie it in to the over all solution and make it harder to get the vault if you do it wrong.

Well you could always split it and have two paths to the corner which are just dead ends.
In either case, you just want to make it so that they would have to explore each and pay a lot to do it.

#330 Re: Main Forum » Need some help designing a house » 2014-03-21 21:12:03

http://castledraft.com/editor/J36E35

Just some leap of faith looping in the space you provided.
The electric floor traps never activate, although the cats will make cautious robbers wire cut through.

I made a post that may have tips that you are looking for.
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=2417

#331 Main Forum » House Design 101 » 2014-03-21 19:55:40

Cylence
Replies: 13
Summary

These are just my thoughts on my experience of working towards a completed house.
I'll make updates if I feel any are necessary.
Note: you should use http://www.castledraft.com to map out a house. I refer to it in this post and you should know what it is and how to use it.

This post goes hand in hand with Home Invasion 101.
The better houses you design, the better burglar you become.
The better burglar you are, the better houses you will design.

update 2014.04.08 - added thoughts on repeat scouters, common traps, self test, eventual loss section
update 2014.04.09 - simplified title, linked to Home Invasion

-------------------------------------

Know Your Customers

There's different kinds of robbers out there and your building plan should reflect that.

A. 2k divers: They start out with 2k tools and don't scout.
B. 2k scouters: They will scout a place within their 5 min window and then bring 2k tools.
C. 2k santas: These dance when they find the vault then gift you tools with a suicide.
D. Chain robbers: They have a low budget house, since they use their last score to fund their next one. These ones have plenty of robbing experience but eventually go broke or die trying.
E. High budget thieves: They have the bankroll to afford tools, effectively scout, and eventually rob you through brute force.
F. Repeat suicide scouters:: Their main purpose is to visit your house and map out enough on each visit so that they can eventually figure the house out, or share the map with a high budget thief who will brute force the rest of the way.

We can also subdivide them into 2 groups: A-C are impatient and D-F are patient.
The impatient thieves are likely to not use castledraft and only visit a few times.
The patient thieves will map out your house and save that information for later use.

In order to make a profitable and safe house, you must attract and kill A-D.
I haven't seen much of D lately (2014.04.08), however you should still build to kill them.
You don't want E to visit. You deter them by making it very expensive for them to stay alive and/or move forward. You want to be able to kill F and prevent them seeing too much of your map.

Myself, I'm usually a F type until I can break a house on my starting 2k, which will then give me a good nest egg to build a home. Then I become an E type after the build progression finishes.


-------------------------------------

Space Constraints and Valuation

Tiles
No matter how much money you have, you will always have the same amount of space/tiles to build. You should plan to use that space as cost efficiently as possible. Most of your house should be dedicated to slowing E down. A small entrance designed to attract and kill A-D coupled with plenty of space to build up defenses against E is your goal. Your design should be flexible so that you can deal with F by making small changes here and there.

Tool Cost
"2k proof" is a term that means that a robber would need more than 2k worth of tools to brute force your house. What is 2k worth of tools? Most people think about what they buy when they spend their initial capital on robbing tools.  This term only applies to Robbers A-C and F. Valuating D and E Tool cost is much different.

You have to consider that they have recovered tools (half the value) from successful robberies and house kills. I have found that saws, meat, water, are usually collected in abundance. This is because of the nature of the tools. People don't usually die with bricks on them since they can spend them turning switches off and on. They also don't die much with guns still on them. Wire cutters are on the rise but are usually used before death. From this we can get a sense of a different value on tools.

I value meat and water as $0, saws at $200, with wire cutters being about $300. Big ticket items like Crowbars, Ladders, Guns, Explosives hold their sale value since they are rarely collected.

Also, you must consider the "cost of living." This refers to the idea that E wants to stay alive as much as possible and that will have a cost associated to leaving a safe path back to the exit. Everyone but E will be suicidal and so they don't think about the cost of living.

Cost per Tile
Ask yourself how much does it cost to reveal/get past X tiles of the map. You want to have a high average cost per tile. It may be easier to think of it in sections. As you plan your house in castle draft, think about the brute force cost to enter/exit each section. You want to make it expensive both ways.


-------------------------------------

House Design

I usually like to build my whole house design in castle draft before I actually start, so edits are quick and you can minimize demolition costs. To start, I also recommend building sections of the design in cheap materials (wooden walls and indicator lights), to test out the house to be sure you didn't make any mistakes. You can do this with your initial life. I'm sure you'll die to self tests a bunch, but you'll be learning and not really risking anything. Be sure to review camera shifts depending on where you expect the robber to be coming from. Remember you want a fully working house all mapped out before you start.

There's plenty of trap designs out there, I just wanted to share some general tips with the goal of high cost per tile in mind:
1. Multiple choice ... The robber knows you have to be able to walk to the vault. They use this info to rule out any possible paths a non tooled robber can't take. So, you should make multiple paths where you can walk with out any tools. Design it in a way so that you change dead ends into paths and adjust your vault location cheaply. This will allow you to update your house easily when F has penetrated too far.
2. Learn how pets move completely. ... It will open up new paths of walking and obscure them from robbers not in the know. Do not make it easy to find a chihuahua.
3. Learn the camera shifts and robber vision. ... Shifts can allow you to walk where vision would kill you. Pets seen at the edge of a screen in parts where someone just needs to walk fast by are often missed.
4. Powered trapdoors ... The best and most expensive trap. Make sure getting around them costs the same as just buying a ladder. Don't spend too much on triple thick concrete walls when buying a ladder will just solve it. Also, the most you can chain together effectively will be 2. Anything more will just require more saws and not ladders.
5. Powered doors ... These are better at keeping players out then trapping them in. Use them to hide your seen pets. They can also be effective walls.
6. Electric floors ... These cost more to disarm when they are not on. Try to make sure you aren't creating paths that robbers can just water through.
7. Cats ... These are great at the low price of $8. Electric floors are scarier when there are seen cats wandering around. Have a cat disappear behind a powered door (make sure he isn't brick-able) and it will make robbers have to cut electric floors or risk a possible magic dance death. Or get a crowbar to find the cat. You don't even have to have the cat actually do anything.
8. Pit Bulls ... Position them so that they aren't clubbable. Make them required to press buttons so that killing/drugging one will cause another tool to be used. Use them to block paths and require a gun or knowledge of the electric floor that will kill it.
9. Power ... Use multiple power sources and understand where your wooden wiring allows access to. Saws are only $200. I've seen a bunch of houses where a bunch of saws can locate the vault easily.
10. Walls ... In addition to concrete, use steel walls and pits, it will force the robber to bring in more tool types and wondering if he's brought enough. If you have space and money, powered doors are also another layer.

Thoughts on common traps (search the forum for more examples).
A. Clocks - these take up a lot of space. I don't use them for that reason, but if you are going to, make sure it still keeps to the high cost per tile rule.
B. Combo Locks - these also take up a lot of space. I would not use these. They are very effective and keeping low budget thieves away, however, they are weak against any one with the means to saw to the solution. Making them impervious to saws only makes the situation worse since, they can just spend the money to bust through whatever it controls and you have less space to distract them.
C. Magic Dance - you can build these to whatever scale you want. I keep them small and plentiful. Don't have a couple control your entire house. Remember to try to keep electric floors short and off.
D. Leaps of Faith - these are my bread and butter. You can do them with dogs and cats. They are compact and require that pets don't die. These are cheap to enter if you know the way, but expensive if you don't. You can also come up with creative ways to trigger them from magic dances or clocks.
E. Fire Floors - relatively cheap. Decide whether you want the pet to be brick-able/drug-able. There's always a space tradeoff.
F. Sight Traps - These can be very hard to figure out, however, be sure that it doesn't throw off the rest of your traps depending on the direction the robber breaks through. These can be combined with dead ends that are mandatory to visit to uncover a safe path.


-------------------------------------

Building Progression

You've designed and tested your perfect home. If you haven't, go do it. Map it out completely. Done? Now it's time to work on completing it in the game.

Self Test
You should have already worked things out in a 2k life with cheap components. However, you will still need to do this a lot. Write down your safe path and update it when applicable. Use safe confirmation movement! Don't forget to back out to the exit when testing with lights! Before every self test, I take a map shot (press +) to review in case of death. This is my process of re-validating a house:
1. Make all necessary changes. Then mark your place by putting panic buttons somewhere. I will eventually do an "undo" back to this state and the panic buttons will let me know when to stop "undo"ing.
2. First Safe Run (lights for traps, windows for pits, chihuahuas for pit bulls) and make sure the button presses work. If something goes wrong exit and go back to 1, else undo all changes back to panic button, and adjust for the next run.
3. Live Pet Run (same as above, but all pits (with required dead animals if necessary) and any trap meant to kill pets are active, doors in appropriate walls to allow a path back to the mat and allow escape if trapped). If something goes wrong, exit and go back to 1, else undo all changes to panic button.
4. Final Test
I've still died at this stage by not following my written down path exactly or letting a finger slip. Mistakes happen, they suck.


Level 1
Hopefully you've just landed a nice score, and you are starting out with more than 2k. But even if you aren't, the same goal applies: Work towards building an entrance near the welcome mat to be "2k proof" in the smallest amount of tiles possible. I usually like to surround the whatever I build with a 3 tile thick wooden wall (5 saws can get out to the rest of your map, but can't get back in).
You may not be able to do accomplish this with your starting capital, but hopefully you get some lucky kills and you can build up. Make sure to keep an attractive balance (1k or greater) to get more visitors.

I don't recommend starting from $2k. You should always start with a successful heist. Try removing everything in your castle draft map except the entrance. Note the cost and aim for houses in with $2k-$4k above that cost. This way you can jump straight to level 2 after building.

Level 2
Once you've gotten your starting entrance to be 2k proof and compact, it's time to save some money. You want a house listing with a $4-6k value. This is the optimal house listing that will attract your 2k robbers. While you save up, do some scouting around the neighborhood, you might find an easy score.

As you kill robbers, maintain a 4-6k house listing by selling off the tools that float above and start improving and building out the rest of the house. However, I usually keep big items like guns/ladders because when you start doing more robbing, you'll want them. You want to keep doing this until you've built out your house.

You may have to change or redesign your front entrance to prevent it from being stale. Be wary of scouts that make it pretty far into your house. You should make a edit (even an empty one of just lifting your vault and placing it back down), just to cause the scout to check again. Also, some tapes may show a 1 step suicide with tools. These probably died from cops and spent a lot of time in your house. You'll want to make an update.

Eventually, you'll complete your house. Don't forget, you can also reinvest the money/tools you are making into successful robberies.

Level 3
Now that your house is pretty much complete, you can decide if you want to attract more attention by buying paintings or moving into the end game, where you can start saving all those tools and making big brute force attempts on wealthy/painting laden homes. Have fun!


-------------------------------------

Eventual Loss

Someone will eventually rob you if you don't die to a self test first.
If you get robbed be sure to check out the tapes before doing anything. If you die during an edit, you won't be able to review the footage. Make sure to note any misplaced pets or broken wiring when repairing. If you get robbed to $0 dollars, don't commit suicide. Wait for a santa or a friend to jump start your house again with a little cash. Hopefully your multiple path design will make this easier. You can always redesign the house, but you won't have to pay for all the pit bulls again. You could always keep the trapdoors in place and build around them as well.

Self test deaths suck the most. Your bounty goes to no one and you know it was all your fault. Double check the map shot to see where you went wrong. On the upside, you probably haven't done much suicidal robbing in awhile. Time to go check out other houses.

Your first loss will suck. You may die from your own mistake, someone's patient planning, or advantaged player(s), hacker, or disconnect. You'll want to blame someone or something, rage quit, vent in the forums, etc.

Stop. Take a deep breath and understand that loss and paranoia is an INTENTIONAL and EVENTUAL experience of the game. If you didn't understand it then, you do now. Decide if this game is for you and worth playing again.

Also, you can check out the other servers where the loss and grind may be different.

#332 Main Forum » Disconnect Deaths... so sad. =( » 2014-03-19 03:20:16

Cylence
Replies: 1

This is sad for the robber and the home owner.
No life for the robber and boring tape for the owner.

Deaths where you make a mistake are frustrating but deserved.
I like perma-death, however, I hate that the most unexpected trap is an internet connection.

GWXQxMu.jpg



-----------------------------------------------
Note: I'm making this suggestion with the assumption that moves are captured by the server as close to real time as possible. This would be an ideal solution, but I'm not sure if it's something that can be implemented. Never the less, I'm throwing my thoughts out there, just in case.


Self Test Disconnect

1. Upon disconnection, you enter a purgatory state.
... a. You can enter a purgatory state X per day/week (to prevent exploits, suggest 1/day)
... b. This purgatory state will last X mins/hours (to prevent exploits, suggest 1 hour)

2. You are kicked from the house and the house stays in edit mode. (not up for robbery)

3. When you log back in, you are in the position the server last received in your self test. (i.e. your edited house).
... a. Whether you reach your vault or mat, the changes you made will not be saved and you will return to your house as if you just logged in. Purgatory ends.
... b. If you die, well you die, purgatory ends, and you start fresh.
... c. If you disconnect again, you still can still try to log back in (until d. below)
... d. If you do not reach your vault or welcome mat before purgatory state ends, you die.



Robbery in Progress Disconnect

1. Upon disconnection, you enter a purgatory state.
... same stipulations as above (once per day, 1 hour length).

2. You are kicked from the house and the house goes back on the market, the owner can edit, etc.

3. The owner's security tape shows you in purgatory (maybe a disconnect icon w/ timer countdown).

4. Any leftover tools or possible bounty will not be awarded until purgatory ends.

5. When you log back in, you are in the position the server last received during the robbery (not taking any new changes by the owner).
... a. In purgatory state, even if you reach the vault, you will not steal anything from the house.
... b. If you reach the vault or welcome mat, purgatory ends and you can return home (tool-less but alive).
... c. If you die, purgatory ends.
... d. If you disconnect or run out of purgatory time, same as above.

6. Home owner results.
... a. If the robber exits purgatory alive, the owner's tape will show steps up to the first disconnect. Tools will be gone (as if the robber came in with tools and left.) Hopefully an icon to indicate it being a disconnect.
... b. If the robber dies, the owner's tape will show the same tape with bounty and he will collect the tools unused at the state of the first disconnect. This payout is delayed and should not be reflected until collected.





-----------------------------------------------
p.s. Anybody know what the tape of a death by arrest/sirens/police looks like?

#333 Re: Main Forum » You should be able to return paintings to Auction house » 2014-03-13 20:50:05

At first I didn't like the idea of getting rid of paintings. But then I thought about it some more, and it may be a good thing.

Imagine stealing paintings, just to put them for auction. You'd have to wait for someone to buy it and you never know how much it will be, but you would get the money from the sale. Then you use that money to steal it again from the person who bought it and repeat the process (so evil).

It does add cash value to paintings however, but like real art, it all depends on who wants it.
Obviously, this would make more popular paintings more valuable as people are willing to pay more for them.
I just think it just adds to the theme. People can choose to either be collectors, or robbers who rob for pure money to get tools to continue the cycle.

#334 Main Forum » Marketing Suggestion - Viral Song Parody » 2014-03-13 17:52:23

Cylence
Replies: 24
The Castle Doctrine - House Intruder Song

Hopefully a parody of this song can catch fire and inform more people of the game.
This song made me laugh out loud the first time I saw it a few years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw
I'm sure you can find some AV guys to whip up something quickly.

Here is my suggested direction with the following format:
Lyrics (Scene happening at time of lyrics)

-------------------------------------
Intro
(Opens similar to your trailer video)
Suppose this is... KEVAN ANTWON DODSIN (names print out on the screen)

Well, obviously, (pixelated version of him with a red bandana that starts talking)
We have a ROBBER in THE CASTLE DOCTRINE. (picture of the robber walking underneath the title)
(back to Antwon, slight pause, then cue the music)

-------------------------------------
Begin Chorus:
He's climbin in your windows, (Antwon starts singing)
He's clubbin your family up, (broken windows, 1 dead family member, rest running, vault nearby)
Tryna rob you so y'all need to (pan to vault)
Hide your kids, hide your wife (shot of kids, then shot of wife)
Hide your kids, hide your wife (shot of kids, bigger, then shot of wife bigger)
Hide your kids, hide your wife (shot of them around the corner with dogs and shotgun)
And hide your money (shot of vault with surrounding traps)
Cuz they're robbing errbody out here (pan down house listings)

You don't have come and confess (back to Antwon singing)
We've got tapes on you (shot of security tape with robber at top)
We gon find you (zoom on the name of the robber which could be Jason's name)
We gon rob you (name selected on house list with mouse going to rob house button)
So you had better watch out, (show tape of person building house defenses from scratch)
Better watch out, (same scene, more built)
Better watch out, homeboy (same scene, more built)
home, home, homeboy (zoom to vault)
End Chorus:

We got your backpack (back to Antwon singing)
You done left your robbing tools and all (show backpack full of tools)
You are so dumb (show robber running out with dog chasing)
You are really dumb, for real (continue scene finding more dogs and leaving)
You think you got away, (show shot where it says you left backpack)
But we know where you live. (show navigating to robbers house on the list)
Other robbers have died tryna do the same thing. (pan through deaths on tapes list)
so dumb, so dumb, so dumb, so (show a robber death on each "so dumb")
(one death by dog, one by electric floor, one by powered floor/pit)
Repeat Chorus Once

-------------------------------------
Outro
(links to game, trailer, credits, whatever)

#335 Re: Main Forum » What is your earliest house? » 2014-03-11 01:31:29

My first complete house pulled from the archives:
-Redacted for security-

It was a puzzle house. Not meant to stop brute force attempts. It actually gave as much vision as possible.

The whole bottom 3 rows was spent telling you how to get to the vault. I used panic buttons as a number system and used lights to indicate which buttons should be on and which ones should be off. The lights were also in specific orientation (i.e. lights vertical and on the left, etc)
It also had a demonstration of how to move the dog using the cat in the final section.

Unfortunately, no one ever picked up on the clues. Although they did like interacting with that dog/cat demo in the corner.

I made as much wiring visible as possible and you only really committed when you opened the door (on the south) to see the cat and dogs. The dogs would block your exit, and the cat would turn the electric floor off after two steps, then back on after 4 more steps. Sadly, most deaths would occur from a robber stepping on the false button, thinking he turned off the grates, only to walk on to the grates and die. The player base is more educated now though.

The house would eventually fall to being worth too much money and having someone brute force through it.

#336 Re: Main Forum » Opinion on Paintings? » 2014-03-11 00:49:39

Lord0fHam wrote:

I like paintings. They are a good endgame, because otherwise there is nothing to spend your money on when you have fully upgraded your house. What painting did you buy? I just recently bought my first painting for my current house. I got "A Snail In The Sun", one of the best in my opinion.

I agree that paintings are the end game, but with a different perspective.
There's plenty to spend your money on instead of paintings. You can always buy infinite tools.

Once you've protected your family and vault, it's time to go from common robber to art thief.
You can retire when you have all the paintings with your family, the ultimate ending.

#337 Re: Main Forum » Vault Test Tool Suggestion » 2014-02-22 06:54:11

eppfel wrote:

I think it is said in this forum many times, but this game is about to die in the most annoying and crushing ways. In my opinion your suggestion would not improve the game. You should fear not having thought about certain tools and also this would make robbing houses more difficult, what is not an improvement as well.
If you want to know how certain tools apply, just check the wiki and happy tile counting. smile
Also, the test server is a good recommendation.

The test server is a good recommendation. However it would be nice if there was something on the main server to help new people figure these things out, instead of having to join other servers, just to understand tools. I'm sure a lot of new people would learn by doing.

I would even be fine if you can pick just 1 tool per run. My suggestion was to level the knowledge playing field and enable new people to teach themselves. There's plenty of things not explained in the wiki.

As far as the game being about dying, I understand that permadeath and losing is a main theme. Although, a crushing loss comes from understanding that you made a mistake, not one of being incorrectly informed. I also wasn't suggesting removing death from the vault test.

You say that it would make houses more difficult to rob, that only enforces the theme dying in someone's house. And the only reason houses would be more difficult, would be because people had better knowledge. They would also have better knowledge of robbing so it would balance out.

Indicator Lights are available for testing, why not tools? or one tool?

#338 Re: Main Forum » Family Protection Guide and Suggestion » 2014-02-21 15:46:48

colorfusion wrote:

I like the idea of being able to choose where the family goes, although I think it would need to be named something that makes sense thematically in the game rather than "family blocker".

Perhaps even having it work in the opposite way, placing escape route points and having the family go to all of them in order of the shortest path which is the next closest from where they are standing.

Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't even think about naming it since I was more concerned with the mechanics and opportunities it provided. How about: "Warning Light" - warns your family of danger and they stay away.

I would name your suggestion "Escape Waypoint." I like it, but your idea has more complications like number order and doubling back and forth. The Warning Light will allow a sort of way pointing but you have to take into account what the shortest path to the exit is. It won't allow your family to loop.

Technically, the warning light should be easier to implement since all it really boils down to is an invisible electric floor in an always off state with no conductivity.

#339 Main Forum » Vault Test Tool Suggestion » 2014-02-21 14:57:47

Cylence
Replies: 3
Summary

Many players will benefit from having a place to test tools.
This will allow for better houses and better robbers.
It also is in some way, a "learn it yourself" replacement for the lack of a tutorial on robbing.


-------------------------------------

Tool Option during Vault Test

Current behavior:
When performing a vault test, you don't have access to tools.
Suggested behavior:
Allow an option to use tools in the vault test, but that run does not validate the vault

Details:
Check box option to use tools when pressing "Done" (Off by default).
When selected, you receive 5 of each tool to use (every run).
Backpack only hold's 8, so not sure how to display this or if you need to select the tools for the run.
During this run, death still applies.
On conclusion of the run (vault reached or exited), no validated vault.

Thematic reasoning:
You want to test your vault protection with items that are available to the robbing community.

Real World Effect:
A place to try out tools without having to buy them (the crowbar is unattainable at the start).
This will allow people to test out and see tool effectiveness and limitations.
Things like range and vision and timing can be learned in this mode.
You will not have to grind for money just to test these things.
This will lessen the amount of vault test deaths (i.e. run with tools first just in case, before doing a tool less vault test).
More complex houses requiring more than 5 of any tool to escape will still be at the same risk level.
This will increase awareness of how to build better homes by allowing you to see how damage affects your house.


-------------------------------------

Conclusion

My current method. When I start fresh I look for a house with the situation I want to test, and then buy the tool to do so. However, it takes long and sometimes I can't find the exact scenario.

I like indicator lights for testing out electricity. There's nothing I can use to test out tool effects. This change will at least allow players to understand tool usage and tool prevention without having to grind for it.

#340 Main Forum » Family Protection Guide and Suggestion » 2014-02-21 14:11:21

Cylence
Replies: 8
Summary

I like the human aspect of deciding to protect your family or not.
I want to protect them and I share my knowledge with those who share the same sentiment.
Hopefully it will help you keep your family safe. Please contribute any other ideas if you have any.

I would like more options and incentives to protect them. This would require a game change. My suggestions is below.

Note 1: if anyone would like to save the image files from the castle draft links and post them here, it would be much appreciated.
Note 2: Also, I may not check in to reply often.


-------------------------------------

Knowledge

First, lets go over what I think I know:

Protector Pros:
Wife holds half the money, which will allow you to rebuild more easily she doesn't die during a robbery.
Deaths lock in damage, even if vault is safe. (you can use damaged walls/dead family/dead pets to your advantage)
You can use kids to have wife not to stop running to the exit twice.

Protector Cons:
Need a free/doggy path to escape.
Killed kids draw the wife (cash cow).
Deaths lock in damage, even if vault is safe. (allows robbers to save progress and come back with more tools for vault)


Protection Levels:
* Level 1. Shotgun
For family protectors, ALL SHOULD HAVE ONE (or more).
Use kids to stop mom exiting to make robbers weary of doors.
Deters Robbers who can't/won't buy a Gun (and bricks for doors).
If I'm not just buying tools with the first $2k, I will build a $1k house (and leave 1$k to entice robbers/allow me to get tools after scouting other houses)
Here is an example of a shotgun for your family as your kill mechanism till you gather money:
http://castledraft.com/editor/yUeFUQ
If the robber successfully avoids your family, hopefully they get tired of the maze and leave.
This is only effective for the lower class, and is a liability once you attract gun toting robbers.

* Level 2. Pit-bulls
Your ONLY option that prevents robbers from walking through "clear paths" to your family.
Must be spaced correctly to require the robber to buy Guns (instead of clubs).
To do this you must understand dead pet mechanics and/or robber line of sight/vision.
Options displayed below with both cheap and more expensive layouts. Although, really it's the dogs that drive the cost.
http://castledraft.com/editor/v2QgVe
Note that as a robber, you can brick cats within range before they commit cat-icide and make that first pit bull clubbable.
Also, don't forget you can use panic buttons to fence pets in. However, the robber can club a pet while standing on the button.

* Level 3. Obscurity (Hiding the shortest path)
Using decoy shotguns and multiple pit bull paths to hide the location of your family.
Scouting clear paths from the door is easy if its not filled with pit bulls, so it's only really possible for people who can afford multiple dogs/shotguns and requires a lot of space. Figuring out shotgun placements will require good understanding of the direction in which the robber is coming from and how it affects the vision.
This is the highest possible defense layer.
http://castledraft.com/editor/Kr6L2U


-------------------------------------

Change

Now for the suggestions on changing family mechanisms:


* Change 1. Family Pathing
Current behavior:
There is a single path for the family to exit. It's the shortest calculated path.
Suggested behavior:
Introduce a $0 tile that blocks family movement and is invisible to the robber.

Details:
This tile will be visible in building view, but not in robbery view.
It does not block pet movement, only Family movement.

Thematic reasoning:
You tell your family the safest way (even if it isn't the shortest) to get out before you leave them.

Real World Effect:
As a builder you can try to figure out how best to position an escape plan for your family when they are discovered.
There is still only one escape route. However, the robber can't figure out what it is as easily as before.
This will allow family defenses to use Obscurity without pit-bulls, making it easier for the lower class houses to prevent family deaths.
As a robber, you will need to take into account all various non family blocking movement.


* Change 2. Children advantages
Current behavior:
Mom is useful since if you protect her, she hides half your cash. Children don't hold anything.
Suggested behavior:
Before leaving you can opt to leave your children up to 10% spending allowance each

Details:
Before leaving your house, you can select the percentage (0-10%) (0 default) for each child.
The wife's 50% cash should be determined after allowance is subtracted.
example: $10k cash. Max allowance given. $2k ($1k per child), $4k to mom, $4k to vault.
When you return home:
vault safe, both kids alive, mom alive, the half the allowance will be gone: result - $9k
vault safe, both kids alive, mom dead, allowance is saved: result - $6k
vault safe, any kids dead, mom alive, allowance is gone from that kid, saved from alive one: result - $8k (both), $9k (one)
vault broken, kids alive, mom alive, allowance is saved: $6k
vault broken, kids alive, mom dead, allowance is saved: $2k
vault broken, kids dead, mom dead, allowance is gone: $0k
As a robber, allowance can be stolen from the kids upon death, just like the mom.

Thematic Reasoning:
Before you take off for a long time, you may want to leave your kids spending money. If your vault gets robbed, the kids will keep the money as they know there are hard times ahead when a robber took all the valuables. If your vault is safe, the kids will have spent some of the money on the frivolities of life.

Real World Effect:
Creates advantages to keeping kids alive and incentives for robbers to kill kids (besides saving damage).
Think of it as robbery insurance when leaving your house for a long time.
If you can protect them, then they will allow you to rebuild.
Although, half the money you leave them will be spent if no one steals it.
Bounties on robbers may rise since kids are a slightly larger targets.
May encourage keeping all family members spread out.



-------------------------------------

Conclusion

I am enjoying the game immensely, but would like more family mechanics, both as a protector and a robber. More creative ways to protect and more skill needed to hunt families should be beneficial to the community.

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB 1.5.8