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#26 Re: Main Forum » castledraft.com — another house editor » 2013-10-22 05:14:09

ukuko wrote:

I'm not sure. Who runs the wiki?

WE DO, OF COURSE! smile  Just get in there and start editing.  I added a bunch way back, just mainly some item descriptions and cleaned up some of the layout and formatting.

#27 Re: News » Version 20 Released » 2013-10-21 06:24:34

joshwithguitar wrote:
Dantheman wrote:

4. The player cannot press them.

The last one in particular is interesting. This could mean that with certain designs if the family members are killed, the vault is rendered inaccessible without using copious amounts of tools.

One time robbable houses have been possible for a while now without needing to risk family members. For instance, have it so that to access the vault a cat at the end of a long line of pits has to see you and push a button and in doing so falls down a pit itself so that it cannot be used by a second robber.

I think he is more saying that if family member becomes integral to solving the house then they are less likely to be killed.

#28 Re: Main Forum » Price tweaking » 2013-10-20 07:09:49

joshwithguitar wrote:
dalleck wrote:

You can find your house design if you dig through the files.  Sharing map designs has been proven to be an enjoyable part of the game, and should be made more easier by the game.

I didn't think a house design was recorded anywhere until you pass a self-test.

It is easily found in the stdout.txt file, and to a harder degree in the recorded game file.  It is saved at the start of a test, so even if you die you can still recover your house.

#29 Main Forum » Scroll-Point Indicator » 2013-10-19 22:58:30

dalleck
Replies: 1

In seeing how scroll-point, ie. the point of the screen at which your view changes, is becoming increasingly important, what if this was indicated in the game, to both take some of the guess work out of it and also add a tangible notion of danger.

I thought a simple and artistic way to indicate this would be to apply a colour tone filter over the area beyond the edge of your scroll point.  This would also help to reinforce the feelings of isolation and danger and would also aid in designing traps around this element.

#30 Re: Main Forum » Price tweaking » 2013-10-19 10:32:00

joshwithguitar wrote:

Still, losing hours of design work with no way of recovering even a map in order to rebuild it again sucks. Next time I'll take screenshots.

You can find your house design if you dig through the files.  Sharing map designs has been proven to be an enjoyable part of the game, and should be made more easier by the game.

joshwithguitar wrote:

Perhaps blue-prints should be added in to the design mode just for looking over the house without being able to edit it. You could then take screenshots of the blueprint.

I like that this is an in-game solution, and I was thinking more something which is out of game, such as a folder of saved house images.  The problem with using the blueprint code as is that you are only viewing one part of the house at a time, not seeing an overall map.  However, I imagine it would be quite simple to use the graphic tiles to generate a map image file along with the house code as text.

#31 Re: Main Forum » Blueprints » 2013-10-17 08:25:46

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well... yeah, that would look pretty, but other than that....  :-)

...it does server a practical purpose as a quick and easy alternative for house building, because you would no longer be constrained by your avatar.  I can see players flipping between the two when they build, rather than choosing one or the other.

#32 Re: Main Forum » Early thoughts on new wife dynamic » 2013-10-17 02:23:02

If the wife and children could open doors, then they can effectively be used as a part of a trap element by revealing pets behind doors and making areas unsafe or triggering switches.  Definitely would be an interesting idea to explore.

#33 Re: Main Forum » Blueprints » 2013-10-17 02:07:37

I still think you should use blueprints in build mode, it makes perfect sense.  You can keep the current build mode and add a toggle to go into blueprint mode.

#34 Re: Main Forum » I'm back from vaction (and plans moving forward) » 2013-10-14 01:39:48

bey bey wrote:

I still think that something similar to sight-activation for animals applied to electronics - effectively limiting the range of  power distribution - would have brought about houses that would be open to trial and error starting robberies as well as to sophisticated cutting in the right places, but where the less obvious houses would have been a lot safer than the usual fortress.

You know what would be REALLY interesting?  Instead of power supplies being passive 'batteries', they could instead be switch which when activated count down from a pre-determined number to zero, once per step taken by the player.  If you set a limit of 20 or so steps, then you end up with power supplies that can only affectively offer power 20 spaces away (although clever house design could work around this).  It would be great for the home owner to customise a few power supplies to different timing and design their traps around this, kind of like a race.  They would also effectively work like the old pet timers, but what makes it different is they are completely accessible to new players and also far more versatile and compact to use. 

Of course this would allow for incredibly simple one-way passages, but to compensate for that I thought the power-meter could make a comeback (yay!) and it could be used to tinker with the timings of the power supply or perhaps trigger it to be permanently on.

#35 Re: Main Forum » I'm back from vaction (and plans moving forward) » 2013-10-13 05:01:04

Dantheman wrote:

Nice to hear you are back!
A thought about possible future directions. But have you considered alternatives to the giant open work space everybody current starts out with? What if there were several different home layouts of varying sizes? You start a new game with a relatively small house, and can purchase a larger one with more money. This adds something to shoot for.

I think something like that has definitely been suggested before, but is still interesting to consider.  Would it change the game that much?  I am not sure.

Dantheman wrote:

Meanwhile, by "layout", I mean what if you started out with an actual house (walls, doors, furniture?) pre-built that you then can modify/destroy according to your own plans.

Would it be random?  If so, what would stop people just re-generating their house until they end up with something they like?  I can see it being interesting to save some cash on an early house by not spending on walls and just using the regular setup.  But ultimately it could just present an arbitrary limitation on players, leading them to knock down most of the walls. 

But hey, it could be a nice leg-up when you are first building, especially if there was a power supply or two thrown in there and perhaps a dog along with a nice little layout of rooms.

#36 Re: Main Forum » I'm back from vaction (and plans moving forward) » 2013-10-12 19:15:39

jasonrohrer wrote:

The latest incarnation of the idea, to answer Ukuko, involves a bounty that is separate from the robber's wealth.  It starts at 500 and goes up by 500 for each outing of theft and 1000 for each outing of murder.  The robber has no access to this money or even awareness of it.  The homeowner that kills the robber gets the money.  The amount for each death is shown on the corresponding security tape.

...so you have to kill robbers to make any money...  That sounds like a significant change.  As you said, it will now not be about keeping players out but creating deadly traps with which to kill them with.

Thematically it will be a bit different though.  Instead of being about a homeowner defending his wealth and family from intruders it will be a story about some crazy guy who invites robbers into his custom-made deathtrap house just so he can earn a living!

jasonrohrer wrote:

Wires through wooden walls might come back, though...

Pretty please.

#37 Re: Main Forum » I'm back from vaction (and plans moving forward) » 2013-10-11 04:06:19

jasonrohrer wrote:

Currently, that seems to be a pit-bull-triggered commit gate right by the door.  Everyone can build the same thing---it's always scary.

An easy way to stop these commitment traps working is by allowing power to still flow through a cut powered floor.
o6sc.png

jasonrohrer wrote:

But what if "trick people into dying" was the name of the game?  What if you couldn't climb the ladder by hunkering down in a scary house?
...
The idea to make this work is to make the ONLY cash injected into the game come from killing a robber (the bounties discussed in the other thread).  You can hunker down, but you will just remain there, hunkered down, going nowhere.

I like the notion of this idea, but I think the only way this will work is if a home owner can make attempts at a house without the penalty of death.  The concept would be that you hire a scout with an insurance fee which is returned to you if the scout gets out alive.  If he doesn't, the owner gets the insurance money.  If a scout get to the safe it is treated as broken and cannot be robbed.

This will mean players will have a constant supply of scouting attempts to die in their house, while allowing them to contribute to the economy as well by scouting.  I think the chills mechanism will help out with any balance issues this might cause.

#38 Re: Main Forum » Pretty sure I was just exploit robbed/destroyed » 2013-10-10 01:26:50

jasonrohrer wrote:

  But it's not thematically jarring for the backpack dropped at the front door to not go in the vault.

I agree.  It needs to go, it does more harm than good.

#39 Re: Main Forum » I'm back from vaction (and plans moving forward) » 2013-10-10 01:21:38

joshwithguitar wrote:

One issue I see with the random pricing idea is that if a certain condition set was broken in such a way that it is far too easy to rob and too difficult to defend then this would mean that no one will ever get enough money for the nuke and it will stay in this broken state indefinitely.

I can understand what you are saying here.  However what you must realise is procedural generation can be the precise control of random elements.  Just take a look at Minecraft to see this.  So I don't think it is an insermountable obstacle.  One way of many that Jason could tackle this is by tailoring the random generation to create various, let's call them 'biomes'.  One such Biome may lean towards cheap dogs and expensive meat while another could be cheap electric doors and expensive crowbars.

#40 Re: Main Forum » I'm back from vaction (and plans moving forward) » 2013-10-10 01:12:04

jasonrohrer wrote:

Dalleck, this is an excellent idea.

Have you ever played James Lantz's game Mercury?

http://www.decisionproblem.com/mercury/

A roguelike where the top player in each round gets to add a new object to the game in the next round (or remove one, I think?).

That looks really interesting!

jasonrohrer wrote:

ANYWAY.... before I move in this direction, I'm still trying one last thing that might turn it into a psychological game, where "trick people" is the only successful strategy, and you simply can't use the same tricks as everyone else if that's the case.

When you say you wanted it more 'psychological' than 'tricky' (or 'puzzle-y' for that matter) I was thinking about playing with the lighting, allowing the home builder to control what the robber can see.  The current robber sight would have to be dramatically dropped to perhaps a few squares away.  Then there would be placeable light objects such as a lamp or  an overhead light.  To compliment this there can be a new 'Torch' object, which when turned on, will increase the vision cone in front of the robber.  Each step the robber takes will lower the battery in increments until it finally is exhausted.

This will now allow the home builder to choose what the robber sees, unless the robber has torches.  This could also allow for completely dark houses, which is kind of funny.  The thought of robbing your own house in the pitch black, only having your hand-scrawled guide to refer to is hilarious.

#41 Re: Main Forum » I'm back from vaction (and plans moving forward) » 2013-10-09 02:17:09

Welcome back Jason, and glad to hear you are serious about steering the game back on track.

In considering the problem of the game, it seems finding an 'ultimate' house is an inevitable outcome of the game design, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

So I thought that this aspect could be nurtured rather than spurned by the game.  Now hear me out, this might sound a bit of a leap, but...

...Random conditions.

As in, an procedurally generated variables.  From the basics of prices for tools and building, to the starting cash, to the income rate, to the wife (shooter or not?).

Now, this may mean that trapdoors end up being only $50 each, but electric floors are $1000.  Then guns are $50 but crowbars are $500.  People now need to work around this set of variables to come up with a house design and also work on the method they can use to rob.  Plus, they may have more or less income at their disposal.  It becomes a race to find optimal designs within the set of limitations.  Eventually a set will be found and those houses will dominate.  Then to reset the world a wealthy player can buy a 'Nuke', which resets the world when used.

Then that resets the server and a brand new set of conditions are generated.  Players will now need to find their way in this new balance.  Constant novelty.

I also thought of another way to implement it rather than game-wide, and that is through having a list of cities which you can have a house in, and you would be free to have a house in each city.  Let us say you have spread your seed wide and far.  Chicago may be electric floor town, and Illinois may be dog central.  Who knows?  A death in any one city would destroy ALL you houses too.  Death would feel oh so cruel.  As before, a player could buy an expensive item to reset , but this time it would just reset that city.

Limitless novelty.

#42 Re: Main Forum » Why have people stopped playing? » 2013-09-20 05:06:40

Let me start by saying that I have a great respect for Jason and his commitment to this game.  I will outline my thoughts as to why this version of the game is no longer interesting to me and then offer up some suggestions as to how this could be improved.

1) House building options have become severely limited compared to prior versions.

TCD used to be a world of endless invention, where Rube Goldberg-esque traps could be created.  Not only has the cost for interesting house elements gone up to incredible prices, but the freedom of electronics and pet-movement options has been so badly nerfed that we are left with some very blunt options indeed.  This is combined with...

2) It is excruciating to create an effective house which you are interested in building.

Accruing wealth is now terribly time consuming and the house you may create from it (if you manage to) may not be so different from other houses you may try to rob which are...

3) [Trapdoor + Electric Floor + Dog] Houses

Limiting the house design suite has created a symptom of very dull trapdoor + electric floor + dog entrances ad nauseum.  Again, on its own this is not necessarily a bad thing, as we used to have endless supplies of electric floor traps (back when they were unstoppable), which were pretty dull in themselves.  The difference was that you could run into them again and again and throw yourself at the mercy of the random dice god.  In this version you get one attempt and then are booted out.  The time investment to explore a house with a series of trapdoor + electric floors is enormous and unfulfilling.

There were versions of TCD where there were many various house designs to be explored and created.  This isn't it.

Solution???

I genuinely don't know what to suggest should be done, as most of my ideas would dramatically change the game, but I do know that a sense of freedom needs to be brought back to the element of house building.  Perhaps this is by being more lenient with the rules of electricity and pet movement or by managing the players money differently.

I applaud the efforts that have been made to tighten up the gameplay, but I feel the game has been tightened so much that there is no longer any slack left over to have fun in.

#43 Re: Main Forum » Pretty sure I was just exploit robbed/destroyed » 2013-09-17 07:31:45

All my enjoyment has gone from this game sad

I think it has journeyed down a dead-end trap if its own making and is cautiously hovering over that 'suicide' button...

#44 Re: Main Forum » funky behaviour! » 2013-09-04 02:48:51

Many versions ago I was stuck in this very situation where I was trying to spot the wife from a corner opening and make her run, but after spotting me, she moved one square out of my sight.

#45 Re: Main Forum » request: 'house code' in recordedgame on die! ~also power supply stuff » 2013-09-04 02:42:08

Yes I can't see the downside to power supplies being walls either.  They are simply passing power and behaving like steel walls at higher cost.  It has always seemed odd how they are built into the floor like wires.

#46 Re: Main Forum » Change to the way Chills work » 2013-09-02 05:10:15

colorfusion wrote:

What if chills only happened if you brought tools into the house?

This might be a bit less intuitive to realise, but it would fix dumping tools without so much locking people out.

Yes this could be implemented with it saying 'scouting X's House', rather than 'robbing' if you haven't brought tools with you.  Players will then be able to see clearly that the houses they committed to robbing are the ones being chilled.

Also Jason, perhaps the 1 hour 'suicide' lockout should be in a different colour?  It could be something like 'locked out' rather than chills, and have a message like "You have been locked out.  Come back later."

#47 Re: Main Forum » Change to the way Chills work » 2013-09-02 03:35:28

One of the problems I have with this new system is it doesn't feel as intuitive as before, where you knew you died in that house so a 'spirit' lingered.  How would a new player react when they find themselves locked out of the neighbourhood after they had a look around and died?  I can tell you, they would probably quit the game and never return.

#48 Re: Main Forum » Change to the way Chills work » 2013-09-01 04:36:40

colorfusion wrote:

This wouldn't really stop dumping tools. People would just dump the tools in a house and then suicide/die in another.

Then perhaps it needs to be reverted back to tools not being dumped when you walk back out of a house.

On that note, any chance of the doorstep non-dump being implemented Jason?  As in, you don't even take a step into the house so you take your stuff with you?

#49 Re: Main Forum » Change to the way Chills work » 2013-09-01 01:27:40

Blip wrote:

Now that I've actually played a bit more under the new system, I have to say that it ruins the game, plain and simple. I hate games where, if you die, you have to wait before playing again. The current chills mechanic is just that; within one or two deaths, I'm locked out of the entire neighborhood! Then, I only have the starting $200 to build with. I can't rob, because there are chills everywhere, and I don't want to log in every 10 minutes. So I have to leave and come back in an hour.

Wait a minute, isn't the 1 hour lockout meant to be for suicide?

Shouldn't dying robbing a house result in getting chills from just that house, and clicking that suicide button when the 1 hour lockout takes place?

This would make players more inclined to get the chills from one of the houses on the list and would also give players a reason to craft house designs which focus on enclosing the robber in electric doors and forcing him to press that button. smile

#50 Re: News » On the Wife and Kids Mechanic (Dynamical Meaning) » 2013-08-30 11:59:50

jasonrohrer wrote:

Also, it might be interesting if, after she picked up the gun, she didn't use it on the robber unless she really needed to.  LIke, when you click on a tool in your palette that you could use on her.... BAM, she shoots you.  Or, if you're standing in her way and blocking her escape path, then BAM.  But otherwise, she's just carrying the gun out of the house.  So, she could chase you out of the house, if the house was well designed.

I really like this particular part of the idea.  She is a loaded cannon once you rile her up, not some fleeing damsel.  She is backed into a corner and will do whatever it takes to fight back.  I would go even further and consider imbuing the wife with the gun as default, so the moment she is seen she will shoot at you if you try to draw a weapon.

Of course, as you mention she is immortal once spotted, but what if her shots weren't guaranteed hits?  Then you would be taking the risk attempting to assault her.  I guess in fairness you would also have to make the robbers gunshots inaccurate as well.  I mean this guy is a complete amateur who somehow blunders other men's houses and kills their dogs.

This would mean that you could have a shoot-out style fight with the wife, with you both continuing to fire and returning fire at each until one of you is killed.

And simply moving into a destroyed wall when robbing will allow a wife past you if she is protecting the vault.

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