The Castle Doctrine Forums

WOW. My house atm is very complicated and i expect when its fully done that will be able to safely hold 50-70K no worries...

Even still i can pass self test in just under ten minutes.

WTF have u constructed that is making you time out bro?

LOL i saw what u did there....

Implying that ur poxy magic dance is less cheesy than commitment traps?

You can stop right there Mr Haven. Im locking you in with your pitbull behind the powered doors you need to dance into closing so you can think about what you just said.

BTW i have a decent pile of notes on ur place, just waiting for it to rise in a value a bit before I relieve you of your funds

In truth despite my dislike of magic dances, ive come to realize that the game's current state is actually quite balanced and allows for all sorts of different viable trapping techniques, each with its own weakness. Although there is one that really stands out as being truly creative and effective which is starting to become more common.

If my current house falls, I will link it here although i reckon its gonna take a while...

It does everything you just describe with out the cheesiness of the design i linked above.

Buttons do not do what you expect them to, power flows in unexpected ways, each attempt on the vault requires a minimum of 10K in the right tools just to ensure a safe return,,,, and if you do that brute forcing just became extremely expensive as well.

probability wise its less effective than magic dance/combo lock but; if you need to cut paper scissors are just as effective as a samurai sword...

Perhaps all this is besides the point, My problem with these traps as shown above is that they exact such a huge cost in tools every step you take on them. I am thinking more and more that wire cutters are over priced for what they are. Saws cost the same and are also dual purpose (can cut power and obviously saw through walls) Wire cutters are really solely used for electric floors, no one actually buys them intending to use them on exposed wires, thats only a small consolation in comparison.

Reduce the price of wire cutters and i think these traps will be balanced out a bit more

I will never buy a game before watching copious amounts of lets play, a look at the meta-critic score (user score only) and maybe an angry joe show review

I happily post an independent review on meta critic when i find a good game, like i did with this one. I gave it a 9 i think.

I do all this because many in the gaming community (especially indy gamers) also regard mainstream critics with something worse than utter contempt for the bought and paid for parasites that they are, so rely on other gamers/lets players to point us toward good games. This phenomenon is known as an informed consumer which is thankfully growing within the gaming community and ultimately results in us, the consumer, getting better products.

Ngu: I mean absolutely no offense here but i view your opinion as being very short sighted, "penny wise, pound foolish" and is the worst enemy of the gaming industry consumer. If you read Jason's post about his pricing, he reiterates what I already believed which is that sales, full price pre-purchasing/beta testing and the like ultimately screw over us, the consumer as they allow companies like EA and Sega to sell us utter garbage and get away with it.

If all consumers started to demand the kind of high standard of "proof of quality" like actual gaming footage, refusing to pre-purchase, expect a cheaper price for buying/testing a game that is in alpha/beta then we wouldnt have to put up with the kind of criminal, misleading horse shit that was Rome 2: Total War, the recent sim-city, Aliens: colonial marines..... the list goes on.

You think you are saving money by being offered a discount on something, yet fail to notice or check if that something is garbage or not. People with that mentality seem to see the word "Discount!" and lose all sense of sanity and reason to the point of masochism.

I own and run my own business and am frequently dismayed at how people will buy what is essentially manure, if you just stick a "20% off!" sign over it. They wont pay 10% more for a product that is 200% more effective for example. It seriously erodes my faith in human intelligence.

My thanks noble sir!

I was gearing up for a brute force of his place but it seems your hounds have saved the trouble... and satisfaction

Oh really?

Look again chief

What have i created....

This monster will wreak havoc on us all

http://castledraft.com/editor/uxryJf

My security tape records suggest that most robbers are:

Fresh start suicide robbers who don't scout houses, as that would mean they have to spend money protecting their safe which is money that could be spent on tools. If they die they simply start over, spending another 2k on tools hoping to bag a decent first haul to build a decent house with right off the bat.

This is also exactly what I do, and it has worked brilliantly. I have never made a house with the starting 2k, my lowest has been about 5 or 6k going up to 65k as my record. I build a sweet house that i have pre-designed starting with cheaper materials if i have to and marking out traps with indicator lights which i replace for the real thing as i can afford it. The longest it has taken me to rob a 5K+ house is about 3/4 hours of game time. Usually it's about 1-2 hours. So i can definitely see why others beside me dont bother with scouting when starting out fresh.

Once i have my lovely new expensive house, I only rob houses that are easy pickings with ZERO risk, and make money of bounties. Eventually i make enough money to make a serious attempt on a top tier house but i take at least 10-15k of tools with me to ensure i can get out again and its worthwhile.

I believe that others play the game in this fashion more or less as well.

Here are my most recent security tape figures to support this.

49 Kills were suicide robbers with about 2k of tools. about 10 had no tools. None pre scouted.

4 kills were pre - scouting suicide robbers with up to 2k worth of tools (came in for a peek and returned with tools then died)

36 players came in and left without dying. Most had no tools and did not take any risks like going over even the most simple of commitment traps. A few were failed non-scouting suicide robbers who ran out of tools then left rather than donate their body n bounty to the Amatiel housing charity... Most of these players are obviously players with a decent house of their own looking for slim pickings, they are usually the first ones to come into my house after modifying it and seeing the 0 - 0 score hoping that i have disconnected or messed up and my fat stack of 2-5k is just sitting there for them.

This environment is in contrast to what you suggest, which is that players are influenced by the scariness of a house. I have suggested this in other threads but in reality it is only a tiny tiny factor. My house is very robber friendly and it only brought me an extra 3 robbers.

Yes, me hating on magic dances isn't going to change player behavior, but it got this discussion going and hopefully (in my opinion) will lead to some kind of change in the game. like what i listed above or even a cost reduction of wire cutters would be nice ($150???)

Looks like jere totally upstaged me there.

I like the door idea...

Well when u start off by telling someone what they can or cant write/stop writing it sets a rather negative tone don't you think?

Knowing something is going on isn't enough. Where the animal is 5 ladders and a window out of reach it doesnt matter, you cant do anything about it whatsoever. to take a single safe step on the trap i linked you need to either ladder the pits/blast through the wall or spend $400 a step.

How is that a different situation to before? Each step from the start could be your death due to an animal that you cannot neutralize or see after the initial sighting. There is no way round it short of spending usually far more than the house is worth in tools.

Same conditions as before in my opinion. It's slightly better now, as you know there is one, but you still cant do anything about it.

Name one other trap style that has the same capabilities and you will start to have a shred of an argument.

When i say one door from many i mean 1 of 5 doors which AND each wrong attempt can be easily bypassed  with two bricks.
BTW If it sounds like im making a house that has to be easily beatable trust me it isn't.

Magic dances are not fun imo, as there is nearly no limit to how complex they can be AND one of every two  8K+ houses has one. They are not intuitive, smart or quirky they are cancer and if it were up to me i would actually make it so that a dog has to be visible for him to move at all unless there is clear space between you, one could shield still shield him with glass/pits ofc, cats are fine as their movement is independent of yours

There was a reason that the original magic dances where the pet didn't even have to see you were changed, these particular traps are a successful attempt at resurrecting that behavior as it isnt worth bypassing until the house is allowed to go past 25k value.

When I say magic dance I specifically mean this particular copypasta trap here (simplified version)

http://castledraft.com/editor/ENMFcm

How can you possibly say they are fun to work out when it is the same trap over and over again (almost brick for brick excepting the wiring) where you would need many times the houses worth in tools to even get past the first one safely???????? They are essentially an invisible combo lock that cannot be bypassed with less than 8K. I have robbed many houses and never once have i successfully guessed the dance to the trap i linked above. Clocks are preferable to this trap.

Combo locks are not as bad and are easily learned/bypassed with saws as you say (sometimes u need LOTS of saws) but its still boring and unimaginative when its taken to the extreme. (ie combo lock after combo lock... nothing but combo locks)

If you really love this type of magic dances that's fine, but if you could please stop spouting nonsense in an attempt to justify your own lack of creativity that would be great.

I am merely attempting to encourage more creativity as there is a myriad of possibilities when it comes to the different ways you can make an effective house, one doesn't just have to build the most 'effective' or in this case exploitative trap that someone on the forums can come up with.

quite liked your house storm, seemed rather original despite ur poxy magic dances.

Fatal weakness with such a short amount of wiring to saw through to get to safe.

To do the same on my house you would need about 30-40 saws and know exactly which wire to follow

Yes.

They are cancer.

If i see one I leave the house immediately with my 2k of tools to prevent the owner making a profit from me.