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#1 2013-06-01 20:41:27

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Painting reset happened

Looking at the distribution of paintings right now, it's pretty troubling:

.
+--------------------------+---------------+----------------+
| character_name           | num_paintings | value_estimate |
+--------------------------+---------------+----------------+
| Bradley_Dennis_Gill      |            91 |          46000 |
| Reginald_Martin_Hartford |            20 |          52000 |
| Travis_John_Robinson     |            20 |          11000 |
| James_William_Folse      |             3 |          57000 |
| Joseph_Patrick_Mier      |             1 |           1700 |
+--------------------------+---------------+----------------+

There are also 20 in the auction house... but you know, 91 in one house is a bit much!  I know that paintings tend to "ball up" like this.  But I think they are too easy to acquire.  They start at $10K and reach $1 in a little over 6 hours.  The price half life is currently 30 minutes.

I'm going to change it to $100K as the starting price, and a half life of 12 hours.  Thus, the price will drop to $25K after 24 hours.

But in order to do this fairly, I need to reclaim all the paintings in the game and restart the auction from scratch.

I'm about to do that now.

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#2 2013-06-01 20:47:43

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Painting reset happened

Okay, it's done now!

I hope this wasn't too hard on Mr. Gill.

Sorry for the folks who were thrown under the bus in this process!

There was even one person who bought a painting mere minutes before I did the reset... sad

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#3 2013-06-02 05:43:45

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Painting reset happened

Awww, my beautiful art. hmm

But then again, I REALLY wanted to get rid of an ugly thing I burgled of somebody that kept popping up at the fourth row. So now I don't need to look at that thing and don't have to die and rebuild all just for that. Given this,I have to say: Thanks!


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#4 2013-06-02 08:39:24

Matrix
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 137

Re: Painting reset happened

Well the "balling up" part happens because:
#1) a vault can store unlimited paintings
#2) the only way to get rid of paintings is to die

So it will happen again sooner or later.

Prevent/change one of the reasons above and painting resets won't be required anymore and at the same time it would open some new ways to get (rid of) paintings.

Last edited by Matrix (2013-06-02 08:44:07)

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#5 2013-06-02 09:27:56

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Painting reset happened

Yeah, I've thought about fixing this by fixing 1) or 2).

1) would also require a solution to 2), because if you already own the limit and steal more, you've got to get rid of some of them somehow.

However, as discussed in other threads, this adds a new layer of messiness to the game and UI.  It's not a game about art dealing. 

I'd rather experiment with soft solutions to this problem (like tweaking the auction parameters).  It's okay if some art snowballs form from time to time.  The big problem is if they always form all the time.... like if there's almost never anything in the auction house.

Of course, if soft solutions don't work, then I'll think about solving 1) and 2).

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#6 2013-06-02 09:33:09

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Painting reset happened

So far, only one painting has been purchased.

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#7 2013-06-02 10:00:45

Blip
Member
Registered: 2013-05-07
Posts: 505

Re: Painting reset happened

This seems like a good fix. Now I'm having to choose between an expensive house and paintings, as opposed to just spending my excess money on paintings. And I think everybody'll choose a good protective house for when they finally have enough to afford even one painting.


Current life: Not dead, but I have no clue who I am
The Life and Times of Christopher Alvin Harris
Record: 149 Paintings!

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#8 2013-06-02 11:54:31

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Painting reset happened

jasonrohrer wrote:

So far, only one painting has been purchased.

Yup, quite an investment that was. Has me anxiously checking up on my house all the time.


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#9 2013-06-02 13:53:27

ukuko
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 333

Re: Painting reset happened

I like this.

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#10 2013-06-02 18:44:35

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Painting reset happened

Aaaaand it's gone... And my wife's dead too. Somebody here understands doggies better than I do. But the next version will not be as vulnerable.......


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#11 2013-06-03 04:29:26

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Painting reset happened

Could paintings not drop down to $1 each?  I find this an insult to the artist.  Who in their right mind would sell their one-and-only art piece for $1? (except 'Sky' by Jason, which actually has 2 copies in the game).

Art pieces should never fall below $100, and I also think some are good enough to sit at $1,000 and a few should never be cheaper than $10,000.
By allocating three separate value ratings, you are giving certain pieces more prestige than others.

But whatever happens, artworks should never be $1.


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#12 2013-06-03 07:53:43

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Painting reset happened

Second that. I'd say putting different prices on artworks isn't really necessary, though. I would just favour a "minimum price" of something like 10000 (above starting budget). Some of the paintings, to my taste, are overpriced at 1$ but that's a matter of personal taste. A Warhol at 1$ does seem somewhat off the mark.


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#13 2013-06-03 12:44:37

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Painting reset happened

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yeah, I've thought about fixing this by fixing 1) or 2).

1) would also require a solution to 2), because if you already own the limit and steal more, you've got to get rid of some of them somehow.

However, as discussed in other threads, this adds a new layer of messiness to the game and UI.  It's not a game about art dealing. 

I'd rather experiment with soft solutions to this problem (like tweaking the auction parameters).  It's okay if some art snowballs form from time to time.  The big problem is if they always form all the time.... like if there's almost never anything in the auction house.

Of course, if soft solutions don't work, then I'll think about solving 1) and 2).

could a solution to 2 simply be to throw the painting in the street? i've seen people do it with paintings before. no need to 'auction it off' or 'resell.' just kick it to the curb, baby!

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#14 2013-06-03 14:34:13

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Painting reset happened

dalleck wrote:

(except 'Sky' by Jason, which actually has 2 copies in the game)

Look closely.  There are not two copies of my painting 'Sky' in the game!

As far as the $1 thing, I can't predict what the collective value on a given painting will be, so I don't want to pick bottom prices separately for each painting---I can't be the judge of that.  And picking some higher bottom value, for all paintings together, would be weird too, because maybe a few of those paintings aren't worth $10K or even $1K to anyone.  And that would be sad to have the painting sit there, unbought!

Now that the auction runs SO slowly (paintings take more than a week to drop down to $1), I don't think it will be as much of a problem, but we'll see.

The kick it to the curb idea (just stop owning it, and it will be reclaimed by the state and re-auctioned) is a good idea.  Like a simple DROP PAINTING button.

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#15 2013-06-03 15:19:57

meatfortress
Member
From: Texas
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 13
Website

Re: Painting reset happened

jasonrohrer wrote:

As far as the $1 thing, I can't predict what the collective value on a given painting will be, so I don't want to pick bottom prices separately for each painting---I can't be the judge of that.  And picking some higher bottom value, for all paintings together, would be weird too, because maybe a few of those paintings aren't worth $10K or even $1K to anyone.  And that would be sad to have the painting sit there, unbought!

I like this.  It's up to the people to decide the worth of each painting.

But now that I'm thinking about "worth", I do have some obvious questions about paintings.  Do paintings serve any purpose other than aesthetics?  If they bring some monetary value to the household, is that value the price the painting was purchased, or does the value change over time?

This is probably impossible right now, but I'd love to have a feature where, for a price, each person can "hire an artist" and upload a picture for their own paintings.  And if stolen, they can't re-upload any new paintings until the painting's current owner dies or trashes the original.  That could start some interesting wars and paranoia over something that doesn't directly affect gameplay.  People losing their minds trying to steal back their "guild symbol", or a pixelated picture of their girlfriend, etc.

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#16 2013-06-03 15:38:19

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Painting reset happened

Paintings serve no direct gameplay purpose.  You don't earn money from them.

I'm avoiding having any user-generated art in the game, for now, since it's not really a game about that.

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#17 2013-06-03 17:22:52

Blip
Member
Registered: 2013-05-07
Posts: 505

Re: Painting reset happened

I just realized...
There seem to by two versions of the painting "Sky", of which I own both.
However, one of them is by Jason Rohrer, but the other is by Jason Rhorer. I wonder why that is? Care to explain, Jason?


Current life: Not dead, but I have no clue who I am
The Life and Times of Christopher Alvin Harris
Record: 149 Paintings!

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#18 2013-06-03 17:36:09

jere
Member
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 540

Re: Painting reset happened

Are you sure you own those two paintings?

smile


Golden Krone Hotel - a vampire roguelike

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#19 2013-06-03 18:29:31

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Painting reset happened

They're also not visually identical.

Apparently, there has been a fraud!

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#20 2013-06-03 18:30:01

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Painting reset happened

jasonrohrer wrote:

Paintings serve no direct gameplay purpose.  You don't earn money from them.

I'm avoiding having any user-generated art in the game, for now, since it's not really a game about that.

I like the way paintings are at the moment - some are beautiful to covet, some of them are seriously ugly to me. I always felt that the idea that "every user contributes a painting" would be somewhat special - you would seriously FIGHT to get your unique painting back - but I can't imagine how that could be implemented in a manageable way. And it would probably lead to 100 paintings of the old cockandballs in the gallery which isn't really that brilliant either.

It does seem best the way it is - i REALLY want to own some paintings as is, like the Campbell Soup tin...


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#21 2013-06-03 18:32:27

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Painting reset happened

jasonrohrer wrote:

They're also not visually identical.

Apparently, there has been a fraud!

There are also two "woman by the sea" in the auction, by the same creator, one is more pixelated but they are the same thing virtually. Han van Megeeren was here...


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#22 2013-06-03 18:40:20

jere
Member
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 540

Re: Painting reset happened

Jason Rhorer is the Banksy of our times.


Golden Krone Hotel - a vampire roguelike

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#23 2013-06-04 00:40:33

DrNoid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 56

Re: Painting reset happened

I would like to have a painting catalogue, so I can easily find which house I need to rob to get that one special painting I like big_smile

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#24 2013-06-04 09:36:30

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Painting reset happened

Trying to preserve that moment in the game where you poke around in a house and take one step in to see the paintings revealed.  With v8 you can use the Ignore list to help in this process (since you can Un-Ignore All after you've found the painting).

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#25 2013-06-04 09:51:59

ukuko
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 333

Re: Painting reset happened

Yeah it'd be a shame to lose the impact of that reveal. Especially when you stumble upon a hoarder.

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