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#1 2014-06-01 14:24:17

arrowface
Member
Registered: 2014-04-08
Posts: 8

Cheaters

Can anyone explain this to me?

I just had my house robbed blind after being up for a few weeks, but before that no one was even able to make it past my first part -- EVER(a magic dog dance). After that I will had an insane amount of complexity to my house that no one had ever reached or seen yet.

A player with no tools comes in and perfectly does the first dance that no one has ever passed, finished ANOTHER dance after(he made no mistakes on either of the dances, and literally ran it as if I were doing it), and walks through the rest of my house as if I were self testing it myself. He robs me without make any u turns or checking additional doors and switches...

After I log in to see this I'm insanely curious as to whom this may be so I go to their house and it was an empty broken into vault. This to me states that turning fog-of-war off is possible some how, and that this person robbed me on an alt, and had their main rob their alt. This is absolute bull. I've seen this a couple other times already and I'm getting too tired of coming up with designs and building up from the bottom like a normal player.

Last edited by arrowface (2014-06-01 14:25:46)

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#2 2014-06-01 14:53:31

GotABigTrap
Member
Registered: 2014-02-26
Posts: 200

Re: Cheaters

First, I would email Jason.  It is possible somebody uses a map hack.  It is also possible that somebody just got really lucky.  I have had a few times where I robbed a major house with no tools just through pure luck.  This sort of thing is becoming more and more difficult.  Usually when this happens I am thinking oh shit this person is going to think I am a cheater, but this has not happened to me for a long time. 

I understand that it was a complex design based upon your post, but any idea what the probability is they guess it all correctly?  You have to think, even if it is 1/1000 chance, somebody is going to get it right eventually.

One possibility is the player did not click return to house after robbing you; therefore, the money would still be in limbo.  So I would not assume that the money has been transferred to some main account until the house is completely gone.  Also, another player could have legit grabbed it.

One thing you can do to combat map hackers is, keep the implementation details of things out of view.  This way hacker must export the map to something like castledraft to see the secret details as opposed to a modified client.  Secondly, Obfuscate it such that it is difficult to understand even if the whole map is viewed.  People who need to use map hack to play this game may have a limited understanding of game mechanics- so take advantage of that. 

I hav't had it happen to me, but again, I know that map hacks are possible, so I try to build my map to make it more difficult and annoying to exploit.

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#3 2014-06-01 15:29:10

Blip
Member
Registered: 2013-05-07
Posts: 505

Re: Cheaters

Firstly, it might just be somebody who's lucky. If your dances are relatively simplistic (especially just pairs of buttons spaced out by one, so the dance pattern is LRLLLLRLLLLR etc.) they're very easily guessed; when I'm suicide robbing, I always guess that first and it's worked many, many times - for all I know, I may even have been the guy who robbed you. The same thing goes for combo locks, with combinations like 1,3,5 or 2,4,6.
Second, it might be due to alt-scouting. Check your other recent tapes and see if anybody cut through any of your traps and saw anything that could have given them a hint.
If you want, you can post the map here (if you're not still using it) and we can help determine if the robbery was just luck or not.


Current life: Not dead, but I have no clue who I am
The Life and Times of Christopher Alvin Harris
Record: 149 Paintings!

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#4 2014-06-01 16:26:52

arrowface
Member
Registered: 2014-04-08
Posts: 8

Re: Cheaters

The particular map that I use is only a few weeks old because I have died twice due to self tests. If it were not for that, it would be over a couple months old with no one ever passing the first obstacle. The probability of them solving the first dance obviously exists but is very obscure. The probability of them figuring out the second, and anything afterwards in one shot is just insane to me. Like I mentioned, this person took the EXACT steps needed to solve the house, and nothing more. At any given point after the magic dance, you have many options of what you can explore. I was intending on leaving the house to accumulate it's hit count tomorrow -- I was confident it would make it to the top hmm It was an annoyingly cheap(not price) house that was essentially based on 2^N probability of about half the steps that you take.

Also the person had robbed me ~12 hours after I logged on to see my empty vault. There were several people that tried to rob me and died afterwards. So whomever robbed me, I went into their house to see nothing but an empty vault ~12 hours after they robbed me.

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#5 2014-06-01 17:37:34

AMWhy
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 432

Re: Cheaters

This is the third case in recent times where it has sounded like someone is hacking the game.  The previous two times were accusations at Blip, but for the time being I think they're a little premature.  Blips explanations made sense. 

First, check your old videos - are there any 1 step disconnect videos? These can be from players who explore and then wait until the timer expires so they die in your house without you knowing what/how far they explored.

If you don't have any, check the videos of players who didn't die / died after a lot of moves.  Did any break through and see something?

If it's still no, it really comes down to the probability of your map being solved by chance.  You say 2^n possibilities: how many branching paths to the vault? Less than 7 and he probably got lucky.  More than 7, then you may have a case!

Edit: Of course, the person who robbed you is almost certainly a dual account user.  The most active robbers are due to the freedom they are afforded with a second account.  Also, their vault being empty agrees with this too.

Last edited by AMWhy (2014-06-01 17:40:39)

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#6 2014-06-02 01:12:38

FreeLove
Member
Registered: 2014-02-24
Posts: 98

Re: Cheaters

Any chance we can see the entrance to your house, so that someone can fess up?


I only post because I care <3

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#7 2014-06-02 10:19:59

Pohaku
Member
Registered: 2014-04-11
Posts: 79

Re: Cheaters

Blip, in the guise of Mr Coats, did the following two things to me:

1) Successfully robbed me for around $25,000, in a house that was not bomb-proof but was fairly complex;

2) Came into my next house, which was not nearly as strong, and died to my initial commit trap.

If he was hacking and had a full view of the maps, then:

On (a) he brought entirely the wrong tools, went a roundabout way to my vault, and made it look like he had no idea where he was going;
On (b) he was unbelievably stupid, and inexplicably died to a trap, losing his own well-built house and dropping a $10,000 bounty.

My point being: Mr Coats was not hacking on any his entries into my houses.

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#8 2014-06-03 21:22:38

arrowface
Member
Registered: 2014-04-08
Posts: 8

Re: Cheaters

Here is what the entrance of my house looks like(leaving the circuits random and black-boxed), and as far as anyone besides that one particular person had seen. The doors on the circuits would remain closed until certain things were done in the house, which involve a complicated and tedious dance: http://castledraft.com/editor/peAKTS

80% of the people that entered would die going north -- the rest would attempt an unsuccessful dance going south. I would be surprised if anyone would fess up to completing my house without any kind of tool work. The two dances I had were long processes. My success came from using incredibly cheap dances that I assumed someone would need to simply use brute force to get through. It was absolutely insane watching that one individual take the exact steps needed. Typically people think the dance just consisted of being on top of the trap doors, but it was actually involving the top as well. I admit I did not look for one step disconnect videos, but I paid very close attention in looking at videos with high step rates. These have always helped me identify problems in my house during testing stages. Most of the high step rate videos were just people jumping up and down testing switches.

I'm moving on -- I'm working on a new design. I've taken some of the comments above into consideration, and built a new house with overly complex circuits which are out of sight.

Last edited by arrowface (2014-06-03 21:27:09)

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#9 2014-06-04 15:43:45

Blip
Member
Registered: 2013-05-07
Posts: 505

Re: Cheaters

I've seen that house before (or an older version of it), but never tried it other than some ill-fated suicide scouts; cutting through the walls to bypass the dance, especially when you likely had a living wife, wouldn't have turned a profit. It's a pretty clever design though, despite being a bit large.


Current life: Not dead, but I have no clue who I am
The Life and Times of Christopher Alvin Harris
Record: 149 Paintings!

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#10 2014-06-04 15:47:09

williad2
Member
From: Planet Earth
Registered: 2014-02-01
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Cheaters

arrowface wrote:

Can anyone explain this to me?

I just had my house robbed blind after being up for a few weeks, but before that no one was even able to make it past my first part -- EVER(a magic dog dance). After that I will had an insane amount of complexity to my house that no one had ever reached or seen yet.

A player with no tools comes in and perfectly does the first dance that no one has ever passed, finished ANOTHER dance after(he made no mistakes on either of the dances, and literally ran it as if I were doing it), and walks through the rest of my house as if I were self testing it myself. He robs me without make any u turns or checking additional doors and switches...

After I log in to see this I'm insanely curious as to whom this may be so I go to their house and it was an empty broken into vault. This to me states that turning fog-of-war off is possible some how, and that this person robbed me on an alt, and had their main rob their alt. This is absolute bull. I've seen this a couple other times already and I'm getting too tired of coming up with designs and building up from the bottom like a normal player.

The term you are looking for is "wall vision cheat" (modifying local game files to see through walls).  I shared my finding with the community in a previous post.  You are not the only victim, just know that this happening to others as well.


Your allowed 3 steps into my house.  Any more than that and your mine.

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#11 2014-06-04 19:41:02

crazyace
Member
Registered: 2014-03-24
Posts: 172

Re: Cheaters

cool bro, remember when someone stole 180k from me without using tools? blame cullman

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