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#1 2014-09-20 21:18:09

zak2oo
Member
Registered: 2014-09-20
Posts: 10

Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Ok i watched this guy go through my house and rob me and i was like wtf... so i watched it again and i was starting to think he could have somehow got lucky with my step combos untill  i noticed at the very end. the first wall of trap doors he continually does stepping back and picks right doors in my house but at the end i have another step combo but shorter and he begins to do the code but instead of pretending to do it all allong the pit doors he only did it on the first three were there were switches. there is no way he just figured im free and clear and just walked...... Gerald donald till was his name

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#2 2014-09-21 02:01:43

Osmium_Planet
Member
Registered: 2014-03-24
Posts: 67

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

post a map of the house?

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#3 2014-09-21 22:08:44

thoth
Member
Registered: 2014-04-13
Posts: 62

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

total cheater!  I just saw the same thing, please ban his account permanently!

Last edited by thoth (2014-09-21 22:09:52)

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#4 2014-09-21 22:10:52

thoth
Member
Registered: 2014-04-13
Posts: 62

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

ha came in with no tools and solved both my combo locks, I'll be retiring at this point,  good playing with you all

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#5 2014-09-22 05:18:57

AMWhy
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 432

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

@thoth, don't go too far.  Be close for Cullman's reboot!

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#6 2014-09-22 09:17:46

cullman
Member
Registered: 2014-03-21
Posts: 424

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

@Thoth, I was going to say the same thing.  Don't leave, Terminal Heist is close and job number one will be stopping cheaters, especially those who have a hacked version that can dump the map.  Terminal Heist will be closed source and the map the code will be obfuscated.  I am also considering adding a reporting function, so that people can flag robbers as being either a good, bad, or unsure robbery (sort of like a karma rating).  People with bad karma can get investigated and banned.

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#7 2014-09-22 13:24:28

Danny350
Member
Registered: 2014-09-20
Posts: 4

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

cullman wrote:

@Thoth, I was going to say the same thing.  Don't leave, Terminal Heist is close and job number one will be stopping cheaters, especially those who have a hacked version that can dump the map.  Terminal Heist will be closed source and the map the code will be obfuscated.  I am also considering adding a reporting function, so that people can flag robbers as being either a good, bad, or unsure robbery (sort of like a karma rating).  People with bad karma can get investigated and banned.

I would design the server to not send the entire map to the client, only what the players should see. I'm not sure how TCD server is programmed. I don't know if it lets the client do most of the thinking for the game or not, but I would put that all on the server if it isn't. Simply do not give the information to the client unless they should see it. This would eliminate dumping the map period.

Also! You're telling me this game is open source and doesn't have some sort of integrity check for the clients to make sure they match up with the server? Like no MD5 check or anything? I understand the idea of open source, and it's cool, but when it comes to online competitive games open source is not a good idea..

Last edited by Danny350 (2014-09-22 13:25:52)

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#8 2014-09-22 17:55:46

cullman
Member
Registered: 2014-03-21
Posts: 424

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Danny350 wrote:
cullman wrote:

@Thoth, I was going to say the same thing.  Don't leave, Terminal Heist is close and job number one will be stopping cheaters, especially those who have a hacked version that can dump the map.  Terminal Heist will be closed source and the map the code will be obfuscated.  I am also considering adding a reporting function, so that people can flag robbers as being either a good, bad, or unsure robbery (sort of like a karma rating).  People with bad karma can get investigated and banned.

I would design the server to not send the entire map to the client, only what the players should see. I'm not sure how TCD server is programmed. I don't know if it lets the client do most of the thinking for the game or not, but I would put that all on the server if it isn't. Simply do not give the information to the client unless they should see it. This would eliminate dumping the map period.

Also! You're telling me this game is open source and doesn't have some sort of integrity check for the clients to make sure they match up with the server? Like no MD5 check or anything? I understand the idea of open source, and it's cool, but when it comes to online competitive games open source is not a good idea..

The game is open source, but an MD5 check would do little to help things - You could just change the client to send the right md5 back - I work in security as my day job, and have a very good understanding of these things.  Terminal Heist will not be open source.  Honestly, we have flirted with a server side implementation (and even have a working example that plays the game in the browser, with all the logic server side see here).  The problem is you have to send every move to the server and then get what squares are visible back every move, and I think it will be laggy, and probably not a great experience on mobile.  Though, I have considered a optimization where you send the move up to the server and the server sends back the 16 combinations of possible tiles revealed based on what the next move after that move might be.  Of course, either of these approaches increases the load and memory foot print on the server considerably. Increasing my costs, and reducing the performance of non-cheating players. Right now the thought is to improve the code, close the source, and add a reporting function and the ability to ban accounts - hopefully that combo will be enough.  If it's not eventually we could look at having some realms/neighborhoods that are server side only.  Maybe eventually we will make it so after the beginning level you gotta pay $2-3 to have an account that can go past that point so there is a cost to getting your account banned - if we continue to have a bunch of problem with map cheaters. Who knows.  I do think closing the source and making the code a litte more obfuscated will basically reduce this to zero - the reality is the hack is so easy now because of the open source a few people did it.  I also think while the random name thing is cool, having a fixed name will also help this problem.  When someone has the same name, every life they will quickly get a reputation as someone that map hacks, or dual accounts or whatever.

Last edited by cullman (2014-09-22 18:00:31)

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#9 2014-09-23 04:49:27

gyuri
Member
Registered: 2013-07-09
Posts: 231

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

cullman wrote:

I also think while the random name thing is cool, having a fixed name will also help this problem.  When someone has the same name, every life they will quickly get a reputation as someone that map hacks, or dual accounts or whatever.

Have you thought of a combination of random/fixed names? Let's say you get a random surname when you register, and that name will be unique and always stick to you, but every incarnation gets a new random combination of first and middle name. That way you can have vendettas, but it's always clear someone has started a new life.

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#10 2014-09-23 06:51:51

AMWhy
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 432

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

That's a really good idea, Gyuri.  Perhaps let the player choose a unique surname to use when they first start.

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#11 2014-09-23 08:10:13

Passive
Member
From: England
Registered: 2014-09-18
Posts: 420

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Sort of like carrying on the family trade.

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#12 2014-09-23 08:39:30

Danny350
Member
Registered: 2014-09-20
Posts: 4

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

gyuri wrote:

Have you thought of a combination of random/fixed names? Let's say you get a random surname when you register, and that name will be unique and always stick to you, but every incarnation gets a new random combination of first and middle name. That way you can have vendettas, but it's always clear someone has started a new life.

This sounds absolutely perfect.

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#13 2014-09-23 08:42:49

Osmium_Planet
Member
Registered: 2014-03-24
Posts: 67

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

@Passive , you could have a family tree, with causes of death written comedically

"Arnold J. Holdsworth, discovered the lethality of full acid immersion"
"William F. Holdsworth, gave his life so a dog could eat"
"John Q. Holdsworth, he couldn't jump over a 5ft pit"

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#14 2014-09-23 09:05:49

Passive
Member
From: England
Registered: 2014-09-18
Posts: 420

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Osmium_Planet wrote:

@Passive , you could have a family tree, with causes of death written comedically

"Arnold J. Holdsworth, discovered the lethality of full acid immersion"
"William F. Holdsworth, gave his life so a dog could eat"
"John Q. Holdsworth, he couldn't jump over a 5ft pit"

I like it, you could then see if there was a pattern to what always got them big_smile I would like it to say about self test deaths as well. I bet mine would be a really long list big_smile

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#15 2014-09-23 09:23:35

Osmium_Planet
Member
Registered: 2014-03-24
Posts: 67

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

"Oswald M. Holdsworth, forgot that he had an extra pit bull"

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#16 2014-09-23 09:51:40

Amatiel
Member
From: Western Australia
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 246

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Sounds like a good purchasable feature that isnt pay to win!

Id pay for my own permanent unique surname


Current Name: Darryl Gary Breeden

Died to self test yet again..... FFS..... ill be back

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#17 2014-09-23 12:06:30

zak2oo
Member
Registered: 2014-09-20
Posts: 10

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Haha gerald till must have saw my post haha now he is coming in and hanging himself in front of my safe on his seperate accounts.... touche Mr. till touche take my money sir i wont stoop to rage for your enjoyment. Now im just going to make my houses very confusing with wiring and we will have ourselfs a little duel

Last edited by zak2oo (2014-09-23 12:09:52)

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#18 2014-09-23 13:30:30

cullman
Member
Registered: 2014-03-21
Posts: 424

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Yeah the surname thing could work.  Other ideas that have been bantered around :

Clones - John Smith 6, John Smith 7, John Smith 8...etc  We have to have a way to explain how you can be playing in different systems/neighborhoods at the same time, and the clones could be the way to do that.

The other options is that your primary account user id is actually is a gang/corporation/clan/tribe or whatever, and your characters are across systems are part of that group.

So my corporation/gang/clan might be called Rebel Raider Team or something, and I could have a player in system 1 called

John Smith
Rebel Raider Team

and another player that is mine in another neighborhood named

Wookie
Rebel Raider Team

And really people who know that the player is  Rebel Raider Team, and those Wookies, John Smiths, are his characters in different neighborhoods that can die, etc.  But the gang never dies (and the resulting grudges, and also credibilty as a person that cheats or doesn't cheat)

I am pretty flexible on all of this stuff.  I just want to there to be some part of a fixed name so that even after death there is some accountability across lives.  Ultimately, if people notice that characters that are part of the Rebel Raider Team seem to know exactly how walk through magic dances, maybe we decide that guy is a cheater.

I'd love the communities feedback.  I am leaning towards the corporation/tribe thing and clones is a close second.  Both have kind of some "Eve: online" type sounding stuff in it.

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#19 2014-09-23 17:59:23

AMWhy
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 432

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

It's funny: For, my last house of any value, some guy came in, waited 54 steps (as I think a few people worked out - I left it intentionally easy to draw people in!), crossed my first pit, worked out to go up instead of down, chose the correct of 4 leap of faith pits to cross and did the correct magic dance before crossing - all first time!  Then suicided in front of the safe.

My thoughts: Almost certainly someone cheating.  I need to make my visible map more complex to solve!

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#20 2014-09-24 00:01:06

Amatiel
Member
From: Western Australia
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 246

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Who is Ronald William Buckley?

He is new, but despite this his house has got to have cost more than $100 000 to build.

I have scouted to very close to his safe, and am AMAZED at how fast he has managed to equip his house with such a huge amount of concrete, pits and trapdoors.

I am VERY suspicious of him to say the LEAST


Current Name: Darryl Gary Breeden

Died to self test yet again..... FFS..... ill be back

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#21 2014-09-24 00:03:34

Amatiel
Member
From: Western Australia
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 246

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Also considering how 90% of the games cash was lost when i died to self test with William W. Blanchard's (Amwhy's) entire vaults contents and bounty in my coffers.

There is NO WAY buckley as accumulated that amount of worth in such a short time via legitimate means.


Current Name: Darryl Gary Breeden

Died to self test yet again..... FFS..... ill be back

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#22 2014-09-24 01:48:57

AMWhy
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 432

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Sounds like a fun investigation of Buckley is about to commence!  Let's take him down!

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#23 2014-09-24 02:05:08

Amatiel
Member
From: Western Australia
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 246

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

In the name of justice,

I hereby propose, for the second time in the history of The Castle Doctrine, a "Collaborative Forum Brute Force job (CFBFJ)" to be carried out against one "Ronald William Buckley",

For crimes against TCD community including map hacks and multiple account exploitation of the highest order.

Details and maps of his house will be permitted to be shared in this thread once a consensus has been reached.

Please take your vote with a "Yea" or "Nay"


Current Name: Darryl Gary Breeden

Died to self test yet again..... FFS..... ill be back

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#24 2014-09-24 02:09:05

Osmium_Planet
Member
Registered: 2014-03-24
Posts: 67

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

Yea. Let's roast some Buckley butt. Also, the first correct choice is the bottom most commit gate.

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#25 2014-09-24 02:21:00

Amatiel
Member
From: Western Australia
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 246

Re: Gerald donald till Cheater!!

If someone could leave some 2k un-defended houses lying around ill be able to accumulate enough wealth to scout him well


Current Name: Darryl Gary Breeden

Died to self test yet again..... FFS..... ill be back

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