New pumping issues

bey bey · 2013-07-28 05:37:54

(new thread since it was in an unrelated one)

There have been at least two seemingly unfair robberies that can't be legit lately, on Jere and Dalleck, meaning that a non-existent player got a ludicrous amount of cash together to steal a lot less money than he had gotten somehow, presumably by dual accounts.

There could be overcomplicated restrictions but all I can think of are very complex, unintuitive and, also, Jason doesn't like them.

Probably we just need an "unfair robbery" arbitrator for the time being, as in somebody flags it and somebody with full access (= Jason) has to look into it and decide if that constitutes unfair gameplay. (This might result in temporary suspension or permanent blocking of an account, or both accounts if it was done by some sort of pumping. My theory would be that somebody actually has one working house and another account, so he can first collect the respawning cash into his defended house and probably even convert it into tools, take those with the other and then take out somebody in perfect anonymity...)
The arbitrator would be needed since there is also a legit form of pointless robbery, that would be if Mr. Smith or Marin decided to take out a rival, investing more than they can take away. This has to be legit gameplay of course.

Either way folks, look into it if a house suddenly gains 50k in worth within minutes and it disappears again - that would be our candidate.

dalleck · 2013-07-28 05:50:08

I am glad we have a thread for this to address this issue, however it is a tough nut to crack.

The problem with banning or disciplining the individuals involved in this is that it will not close the exploit off from others.

Rather, what I think we need is a real solution to an issue which as far as I know has existed since the games inception.

But before all of this happens it firstly needs to be recognised as an issue by Jason himself.

Last edited by dalleck (2013-07-28 05:52:08)

bey bey · 2013-07-28 06:05:07

Yup.

I think it might be that it's just one or two people, so one could deal with it in situ. But it wouldn't solve the exploit for sure, since the problem is the "free 2k", that are much needed otherwise, combined with unlimited tools.

colorfusion · 2013-07-28 07:07:08

I think banning is a bit extreme, considering it's just something in the game and Jason has unbanned even blatant hackers after what they did was fixed.

Perhaps some kind of limit on robbing the same person, on the same life or not, so people can't use an alt account to get fast $2000's. Not sure how it would implemented though.

Maybe a 10 minute timer from the moment you start your life before your house is shown to others. If put time into making a legitimate house this shouldn't be much trouble, but it would make $2000 pumping a lot less efficient. Doesn't even have to be explained to the user since they can't see their house on the list, but fits in as your house being unknown to people, it's just been built and the news of a new robbing opportunity hasn't spread around yet.

As Mr Smith I can confirm I haven't taken part in this, but also haven't seem to have been the victim of it yet.

Just a theory, but maybe Victor or another rich person is the one doing it? One account earning all the money, then another taking all the risks and using the money to take out the houses rich enough to threaten him.

Last edited by colorfusion (2013-07-28 07:17:24)

bey bey · 2013-07-28 07:41:16

colorfusion wrote:

Just a theory, but maybe Victor or another rich person is the one doing it? One account earning all the money, then another taking all the risks and using the money to take out the houses rich enough to threaten him.

I kind of suspect the same thing, as 50k sitting around in a starting house won't last too long. But then again, it just might with rudimentary scary looking defenses, as it takes only 5 mins or so. With two accounts, a top house could be pumped up very quickly and go back to normal in no time.

I was wondering about Mr Smith since his cash is constantly vanishing, but it didn't seem in tune with the house design psychologically, yet I can't say why. Maybe just because it has been around for sooooo long, doesn't look like somebody who would disrespect the game enough to do something like this.

I really like the idea of delaying the "popping up" of a house. It makes sense thematically as you said and it would thwart this thoroughly. 10 mins would mean that one can only gather 12k in an hour. Seems fair. Then again, a 10k max to be scraped of different lives of a given player also seems more than alright, could be over the time of a day or a bit more, comparably to "chills": Something about that house feels beneath you. Your pride can't take prey that easy...

colorfusion · 2013-07-28 07:53:19

bey bey wrote:

colorfusion wrote:
Just a theory, but maybe Victor or another rich person is the one doing it? One account earning all the money, then another taking all the risks and using the money to take out the houses rich enough to threaten him.
I kind of suspect the same thing, as 50k sitting around in a starting house won't last too long. But then again, it just might with rudimentary scary looking defenses, as it takes only 5 mins or so. With two accounts, a top house could be pumped up very quickly and go back to normal in no time.
I was wondering about Mr Smith since his cash is constantly vanishing, but it didn't seem in tune with the house design psychologically, yet I can't say why. Maybe just because it has been around for sooooo long, doesn't look like somebody who would disrespect the game enough to do something like this.
I really like the idea of delaying the "popping up" of a house. It makes sense thematically as you said and it would thwart this thoroughly. 10 mins would mean that one can only gather 12k in an hour. Seems fair. Then again, a 10k max to be scraped of different lives of a given player also seems more than alright, could be over the time of a day or a bit more, comparably to "chills": Something about that house feels beneath you. Your pride can't take prey that easy...

Buying tools and keeping them on your person the majority of the time would stop your house going to the top too much. There's probably some sneaky way with transferring tools and selling them off in which you can have the tools/money on your person and still be getting money from $2000 houses.

I, Mr Smith, keep my trap relatively easy to complete without breaking anything so that I can stay under the radar a little and not get brute forced. I also had a go at tooling my way through victor's house yesterday which used up a lot of cash:

I made it about 2/3 of the way to the vault, if whoever is pumping all this cash has so much money then they should have easily been able to do Victor's house; and he's such a big target it seems weird to not have been defeated by now.

bey bey · 2013-07-28 08:43:03

Fair enough. Idk, I think this build-up will have to show, but then again, you could also do it in reverse if you actually have a top house: Blow 50k in tools and then quickly get them back. A lot less suspicious.

I only put it there so that if somebody notices a top house having 100k instead of 30 or 50 for a quick moment, we might have a clue to what's going on.

Ludicrosity · 2013-07-28 09:03:26

bey bey wrote:

There have been at least two seemingly unfair robberies that can't be legit lately, on Jere and Dalleck, meaning that a non-existent player got a ludicrous amount of cash together to steal a lot less money than he had gotten somehow, presumably by dual accounts.

I have definitely borne witness to the aftermath of one of these. I've been focusing on the robbery aspect of this game for the past day or so now, and have been scouting a bunch of houses lately. There was a player whose last name started with G (I'm terrible with remembering names) and I realized that his wife could likely be reached without too much cost due to the way he had placed his pit bulls. He had put them in niches in the wall and was using windows to improve their sight. This seemed like a great idea at first, but then I realized it meant I could drug them, tunnel around them with explosives (which was now cheap because of the window and empty spots in the niches), lure the next dog to the drugged dog, drug and repeat.

I decided to earn the funds to try this by cracking Mr. Smith (you're right I think, colorfusion, that having a non-trivial but not too hard house probably wards off total destruction by tools). I think I got something like $7000 from Mr. Smith after figuring his house out, which I used to buy meat and explosives and some other stuff I figured I might need or got in Mr. Smith's vault (can't leave it at home as I have no house) and returned to the original guy's house (Mr. G).

When I got there, I was shocked to find that someone had laddered over his entire place... I mean... a lot of ladders. It had to have been at least in the 50k or more range. They had robbed his vault, which was empty. I continued with my plan to try and get to his wife, which I did successfully (and then bombed some holes in a wall somewhere to use up remaining explosives - sorry Mr. G ). Anyway, I don't remember how much money he had had in his vault before being ladder-destroyed, but I doubt it was anywhere near enough to be worthwhile. Further, I don't remember seeing any formerly rich person be demoted on the list (after spending all that money on ladders). So I was sure wondering where this mystery ladderer had come from - seemingly appearing with a huuuge amount of ladders out of nowhere.

bey bey wrote:

I only put it there so that if somebody notices a top house having 100k instead of 30 or 50 for a quick moment, we might have a clue to what's going on.

Over the past month or so, I have also noticed several incidents in which a really rich house has suddenly shot up to the top of the list. Each time I'd wonder how on Earth they managed to accumulate so much money so quickly. However, I didn't pay attention to the names (like I said, I'm terrible with remembering names) so I don't know if it was the same person or different people. There are also legit ways to quickly acquire a bunch of money.

colorfusion wrote:

Maybe a 10 minute timer from the moment you start your life before your house is shown to others. If put time into making a legitimate house this shouldn't be much trouble, but it would make $2000 pumping a lot less efficient. Doesn't even have to be explained to the user since they can't see their house on the list, but fits in as your house being unknown to people, it's just been built and the news of a new robbing opportunity hasn't spread around yet.

I think this sounds like a great idea!

Last edited by Ludicrosity (2013-07-28 09:07:27)

colorfusion · 2013-07-28 09:08:35

Ludicrosity wrote:

bey bey wrote:
There have been at least two seemingly unfair robberies that can't be legit lately, on Jere and Dalleck, meaning that a non-existent player got a ludicrous amount of cash together to steal a lot less money than he had gotten somehow, presumably by dual accounts.
I have definitely borne witness to the aftermath of one of these. I've been focusing on the robbery aspect of this game for the past day or so now, and have been scouting a bunch of houses lately. There was a player whose last name started with G (I'm terrible with remembering names) and I realized that his wife could likely be reached without too much cost due to the way he had placed his pit bulls. He had put them in niches in the wall and was using windows to improve their sight. This seemed like a great idea at first, but then I realized it meant I could drug them, tunnel around them with explosives (which was now cheap because of the window and empty spots in the niches), lure the next dog to the drugged dog, drug and repeat.
I decided to earn the funds to try this by cracking Mr. Smith (you're right I think, colorfusion, that having a non-trivial but not too hard house probably wards off total destruction by tools). I think I got something like $7000 from Mr. Smith after figuring his house out, which I used to buy meat and explosives and some other stuff I figured I might need or got in Mr. Smith's vault (can't leave it at home as I have no house) and returned to the original guy's house (Mr. G).
When I got there, I was shocked to find that someone had laddered over his entire place... I mean... a lot of ladders. It had to have been at least in the 50k or more range. They had robbed his vault, which was empty. I continued with my plan to try and get to his wife, which I did successfully (and then bombed some holes in a wall somewhere to use up remaining explosives - sorry Mr. G ). Anyway, I don't remember how much money he had had in his vault before being ladder-destroyed, but I doubt it was anywhere near enough to be worthwhile. Further, I don't remember seeing any formerly rich person be demoted on the list (after spending all that money on ladders). So I was sure wondering where this mystery ladderer had come from - seemingly appearing with a huuuge amount of ladders out of nowhere.
bey bey wrote:
I only put it there so that if somebody notices a top house having 100k instead of 30 or 50 for a quick moment, we might have a clue to what's going on.
Over the past month or so, I have also noticed several incidents in which a really rich house has suddenly shot up to the top of the list. Each time I'd wonder how on Earth they managed to accumulate so much money so quickly. However, I didn't pay attention to the names (like I said, I'm terrible with remembering names) so I don't know if it was the same person or different people. There are also legit ways to quickly acquire a bunch of money.
colorfusion wrote:
Maybe a 10 minute timer from the moment you start your life before your house is shown to others. If put time into making a legitimate house this shouldn't be much trouble, but it would make $2000 pumping a lot less efficient. Doesn't even have to be explained to the user since they can't see their house on the list, but fits in as your house being unknown to people, it's just been built and the news of a new robbing opportunity hasn't spread around yet.
I think this sounds like a great idea!

Was it this house?
http://castlefortify.com/c/c63d6f1

That was Dalleck's if it was.

bey bey · 2013-07-28 09:10:37

Ludicrosity wrote:

bey bey wrote:
There have been at least two seemingly unfair robberies that can't be legit lately, on Jere and Dalleck, meaning that a non-existent player got a ludicrous amount of cash together to steal a lot less money than he had gotten somehow, presumably by dual accounts.
I have definitely borne witness to the aftermath of one of these. I've been focusing on the robbery aspect of this game for the past day or so now, and have been scouting a bunch of houses lately. There was a player whose last name started with G (I'm terrible with remembering names) and I realized that his wife could likely be reached without too much cost due to the way he had placed his pit bulls. He had put them in niches in the wall and was using windows to improve their sight. This seemed like a great idea at first, but then I realized it meant I could drug them, tunnel around them with explosives (which was now cheap because of the window and empty spots in the niches), lure the next dog to the drugged dog, drug and repeat.
I decided to earn the funds to try this by cracking Mr. Smith (you're right I think, colorfusion, that having a non-trivial but not too hard house probably wards off total destruction by tools). I think I got something like $7000 from Mr. Smith after figuring his house out, which I used to buy meat and explosives and some other stuff I figured I might need or got in Mr. Smith's vault (can't leave it at home as I have no house) and returned to the original guy's house (Mr. G).

Maybe he robbed a ladder store...

On a serious note: It was the Dalleck whose wife you exterminated. (I had the same issue with a window-thingee I thought was smart and it also cost me my wife a few days ago. The best defense is pitbulls aligned to line of sight with pits or concrete, so it costs at least 1k to pass each one.

Paul · 2013-07-28 10:47:22

Houses don't necessarily need to appear for everyone at the same time ether. If someone appears to be pumping, the ten minute wait could increase by increments of a couple minuets to further reduce the effectiveness. This staggering the would also encourage other players to take the 2K before the offending individual, which I believe may be enough to render pumping ineffective all together, especially if the in game community is fairly active. Unfortunately, depending on the design of the game, this method may not be practical to implement, especially in comparison to the simple ten minute timer.

On a side note, the timer may also improve the games accessibility, by giving new players a chance to understand the structure of the game, before their house is immediately robed, though this is likely less of a concern, or may even run against the design goals.

Ludicrosity · 2013-07-28 11:58:09

colorfusion wrote:

Was it this house?
http://castlefortify.com/c/c63d6f1
That was Dalleck's if it was.

Yes, that was the house. I counted the number of pits and it looks like I exaggerated the number of ladders the guy used. I remember there being more, but actually it was closer to 20k in ladders based on the Castle Fortify. That's still a lot though.

bey bey wrote:

Maybe he robbed a ladder store...
On a serious note: It was the Dalleck whose wife you exterminated. (I had the same issue with a window-thingee I thought was smart and it also cost me my wife a few days ago. The best defense is pitbulls aligned to line of sight with pits or concrete, so it costs at least 1k to pass each one.

That may have also been me. I've used this tunneling trick on a few people now.

Paul wrote:

Houses don't necessarily need to appear for everyone at the same time ether. If someone appears to be pumping, the ten minute wait could increase by increments of a couple minuets to further reduce the effectiveness. This staggering the would also encourage other players to take the 2K before the offending individual, which I believe may be enough to render pumping ineffective all together, especially if the in game community is fairly active. Unfortunately, depending on the design of the game, this method may not be practical to implement, especially in comparison to the simple ten minute timer.
On a side note, the timer may also improve the games accessibility, by giving new players a chance to understand the structure of the game, before their house is immediately robed, though this is likely less of a concern, or may even run against the design goals.

I agree with this too. I like the idea of a short waiting period before a house goes up on the list.

On an unrelated note, if you rob someone's vault but their wife still has money, is their house still removed from the list? I just robbed someone and went back to get the wife using the proceeds from the robbery, but their house was gone?

Last edited by Ludicrosity (2013-07-28 12:01:41)

largestherb · 2013-07-28 12:02:11

30 ladders is not actually that expensive to rob! victor, now, that house will take a lot of ladders, bombs, blowtorches or whatever is in those walls. and with victor lies my argument against a broken house being interesting..

victor has $70,000 or whatever, but it is going to cost, what, $10, $20, $30, $40,000 in tools to rob? yes, profitable. but which part of that is interesting, really?
cracking codes feels very rewarding, but brute forcing to a vault is not so much. and when the house is broken, brute forcing is the only option really.

of course, it is my personal opinion that it isn't interesting. maybe others think it is. personally i miss the blueprint houses, but i think i might be in the minority.

right now, even to rob a relatively poor house ($3000 or so) you need to spend quite a lot in tools, otherwise you risk getting boned by this grid/trapdoor/button combo everyone is using, with dog chases. so, you know, fortune favours the bold.. but you don't want to be too bold for $3000.
and it seems any house that is worth being a bit bold in, is just a magical dance that goes back to my point above, spend large sum of money scouting for parts of the code, or just spend a larger sum of money and break it.

i'm going to go and eat a large meal and then try to make a new house.

Ludicrosity wrote:

On an unrelated note, if you rob someone's vault but their wife still has money, is their house still removed from the list? I just robbed someone and went back to get the wife using the proceeds from the robbery, but their house was gone?

i don't think so, could have just returned to rebuild

Last edited by largestherb (2013-07-28 12:05:16)

colorfusion · 2013-07-28 12:11:58

largestherb wrote:

i don't think so, could have just returned to rebuild

Or, more likely IMO, somebody else saw the $1000 house and went to take the rest.

jere · 2013-07-28 12:14:00

Hmm.. .what does Victor's house look like? Just curious because I happen to have $68k and someone got about halfway to my vault recently. I'm not robbing anyone and I cant check the list, since my house has been broken for a week or so.

and with victor lies my argument against a broken house being interesting..

I agree completely. My house has raked in 50+ kills since it has been broken. It's basically a complete waste of time for all those players. The only way to get through is brute force.

I don't think the aesthetic of a broken house, for robbers, is worth the dramatically less interesting gameplay. I suggested resetting all houses every time for robbers, but maintaing the damage for the home owner to return to.

personally i miss the blueprint houses, but i think i might be in the minority.

Also strongly agree here. When blueprints came out, I argued strongly against blueprint only houses because that totally ruined mazes and fog of war. However, my proposal was a two-feature solution: keep blueprints in certain situations (i.e. an expensive tool), but start new players especially with blueprint free houses.

Last edited by jere (2013-07-28 12:21:46)

colorfusion · 2013-07-28 12:24:23

jere wrote:

Hmm.. .what does Victor's house look like? Just curious because I happen to have $68k and someone got about halfway to my vault recently. I'm not robbing anyone and I cant check the list, since my house has been broken for a week or so.
I agree completely. My house has raked in 50+ kills since it has been broken. It's basically a complete waste of time for all those players. The only way to get through is brute force.

Hello Victor.

Last edited by colorfusion (2013-07-28 12:26:41)

jere · 2013-07-28 12:28:13

Hello, Mr. Callahan.

LOL. I knew it. I've been waiting so long to know my name.

Ludicrosity · 2013-07-28 12:28:56

largestherb wrote:

and with victor lies my argument against a broken house being interesting..
victor has $70,000 or whatever, but it is going to cost, what, $10, $20, $30, $40,000 in tools to rob? yes, profitable. but which part of that is interesting, really?
cracking codes feels very rewarding, but brute forcing to a vault is not so much. and when the house is broken, brute forcing is the only option really.
of course, it is my personal opinion that it isn't interesting.

I couldn't agree with you more largestherb (it occurred to me the other day that I've been calling you "herb," which isn't actually your name - sorry about that slip). I've been cracking a bunch of houses lately and some have been really fun, like the one I described above & below (Mr. McDaniel). The broken ones are rather irritating though. They don't offer you a fair shot at figuring them out. It's simply: oh, you don't have 50k to blow on tools? Too bad!

For all of the houses I've robbed in the last couple of days, I've used only the $2000 starting funds (granted, sometimes several times over multiple scouting missions). Houses like Victor's are simply straight up impossible this way.

largestherb wrote:

i don't think so, could have just returned to rebuild

You were right, he had apparently just gone back to fix things and change some of his security details. He'll need to change them again though, because I just killed his wife and made note of his updates. Hehehe...

I've got his entire house mapped out at this point. Though, a few minor tweaks here and there send me almost back to square one.

Ludicrosity · 2013-07-28 12:31:03

colorfusion wrote:

largestherb wrote:
i don't think so, could have just returned to rebuild
Or, more likely IMO, somebody else saw the $1000 house and went to take the rest.

No, because after I cracked his house, I went in with a new character with no tools at all and did his house. So I left without any damage. All his traps were still intact...

...of course I did come back and murder his wife and kids later, so my hands are hardly clean...

jere wrote:

Hmm.. .what does Victor's house look like? Just curious because I happen to have $68k and someone got about halfway to my vault recently. I'm not robbing anyone and I cant check the list, since my house has been broken for a week or so.

But if your house is still broken, i.e. you haven't logged into that account for a week or so, then how did you know that you had $68000?

jere wrote:

I suggested resetting all houses every time for robbers, but maintaing the damage for the home owner to return to.

But then a homeowner can simply leave his house online and never bother logging back in. Since nothing will ever change for robbers, his house will remain in a fully secure state forever. I don't see any way to implement any kind of curb on how damage to houses is saved in order to prevent broken houses. So long as there is a way for certain kinds of damage to be saved, people will be able to figure out how that damage renders their house broken.

Note: Lots of edits of this post, sorry about that. A bunch of posts that I had missed popped up.

Last edited by Ludicrosity (2013-07-28 12:43:55)

colorfusion · 2013-07-28 12:35:19

jere wrote:

Hello, Mr. Callahan.
LOL. I knew it. I've been waiting so long to know my name.

I'm Mr. Smith I think, I got to the upper right corner.

Ludicrosity wrote:

colorfusion wrote:
largestherb wrote:
i don't think so, could have just returned to rebuild
Or, more likely IMO, somebody else saw the $1000 house and went to take the rest.
No, because after I cracked his house, I went in with a new character with no tools at all and did his house. So I left without any damage. All his traps were still intact...
...of course I did come back and murder his wife and kids later, so my hands are hardly clean...

Ah, I assumed it was a $2000 starter house which would get snatched up quickly.

Last edited by colorfusion (2013-07-28 12:38:42)

jere · 2013-07-28 13:04:09

I'm Mr. Smith I think, I got to the upper right corner.

Ah, well then I really need to be worried.

But if your house is still broken, i.e. you haven't logged into that account for a week or so, then how did you know that you had $68000?

Quite simple. I logged in, but I didn't fix my house. Selling all of my tools gives me the precise value.

But then a homeowner can simply leave his house online and never bother logging back in. Since nothing will ever change for robbers, his house will remain in a fully secure state forever.

I'm not sure if I explained myself clearly. I'm talking about getting rid of saved damage completely (with the exception of the home owner, who has to deal with it in order to update their house). I'm not particularly fond of the saving damage mechanic and I don't think it is necessary.

This is how I look at it. When you make a house, you're presenting a puzzle to other players. Solve the puzzle, get a reward. (Yea, you might object to the term "puzzle", but I think that best describes how one figures it out). Anyway, one-time robbable houses mean that the first person to solve a house gets the pleasure of solving it, but everyone who comes after gets short changed.

It's like handing someone the three utilities puzzle. I've seen people waste 2 hours on this thing. It's not a puzzle. IT'S A TRICK. Being asked to solve it is a practical joke. 50+ have died trying to solve my version of the the three utility puzzle. That's not fair at all. Instead, why not hand every person playing the game a working version of the puzzle?

Does that make sense?

Ludicrosity · 2013-07-28 13:15:27

jere wrote:

Quite simple. I logged in, but I didn't fix my house. Selling all of my tools gives me the precise value.

Oh, well that is simple. For some reason it didn't occur to me.

jere wrote:

I'm not sure if I explained myself clearly. I'm talking about getting rid of saved damage completely (with the exception of the home owner, who has to deal with it in order to update their house). I'm not particularly fond of the saving damage mechanic and I don't think it is necessary.
This is how I look at it. When you make a house, you're presenting a puzzle to other players. Solve the puzzle, get a reward. (Yea, you might object to the term "puzzle", but I think that best describes how one figures it out). Anyway, one-time robbable houses mean that the first person to solve a house gets the pleasure of solving it, but everyone who comes after gets short changed.
It's like handing someone the three utilities puzzle. I've seen people waste 2 hours on this thing. It's not a puzzle. IT'S A TRICK. Being asked to solve it is a practical joke. 50+ have died trying to solve my version of the the three utility puzzle. That's not fair at all. Instead, why not hand every person playing the game a working version of the puzzle?
Does that make sense?

Well that's actually what I thought you were suggesting (unless I still misunderstand you), but then everyone's house lasts forever. Maybe that's entirely OK, but I think it deviates significantly from what the intended atmosphere of the game is supposed to be (Jason or others can correct me here).

What about one's wife dying? Would that remain permanent?

jere · 2013-07-28 13:31:31

What about one's wife dying? Would that remain permanent?

Family deaths would stay, since they don't have any impact on the mechanics of of the house. But killing a family member wouldn't grant you the ability to save damage to the house.

Maybe that's entirely OK, but I think it deviates significantly from what the intended atmosphere of the game is supposed to be

Perhaps. If you stop updating your poorly defended house, however, it is going to be continuously robbed down to $0. Removing saved damage would certainly take away the aesthetics of wading through a ransacked house (kind of like exploring a tomb, but seeing that tomb robbers and vandals have beaten you to it). The question is whether that particular aesthetic is worth the hassle of one-time robbable houses.

largestherb · 2013-07-28 13:51:26

hmm. i don't know about resetting the house each time.

can i still publish a new house that has broken/dead things in it?

jere · 2013-07-28 14:28:07

I don't see why not. The key here is the self test. It proves that the house is fair. If you can get to your safe with broken/dead things, then that's the fine.

The problem currently is the self test only guarantees a house is fair for the first robbery.

The Castle Doctrine Forums

#1 2013-07-28 05:37:54

New pumping issues

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Re: New pumping issues

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Re: New pumping issues

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Re: New pumping issues

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Re: New pumping issues

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Re: New pumping issues

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#16 2013-07-28 12:24:23

Re: New pumping issues

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Re: New pumping issues

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Re: New pumping issues

#19 2013-07-28 12:31:03

Re: New pumping issues

#20 2013-07-28 12:35:19

Re: New pumping issues

#21 2013-07-28 13:04:09

Re: New pumping issues

#22 2013-07-28 13:15:27

Re: New pumping issues

#23 2013-07-28 13:31:31

Re: New pumping issues

#24 2013-07-28 13:51:26

Re: New pumping issues

#25 2013-07-28 14:28:07

Re: New pumping issues

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