One week at the top

joshwithguitar · 2014-02-25 18:16:57

Well, that's it folks,

Mr Curry finally decided to hang himself on Mr Garrison's doorstep after losing his connection to the Internet and deciding that life without the Internet for even 5 minutes was not worth living.

I had a surprisingly easy time up there. I think only storm had a decent attempt with tools and the only person who came close to my vault was ukuko remembering my dance from Price's house before I updated it.

There is certainly a lot less money floating around than back in Price's day and people have wised up a lot on how to build effective houses. I was finding it quite hard to make a profit out of robbing and many times would lose money in a robbery when I discovered that the wife actually held half the houses money and they didn't have that many tools. So I think my earlier idea that the reason brute forcing is too easy is because there was so much money floating around has turned out to be correct.

So, one question is: is it too easy to defend yourself now given the lack of money and tools floating around? Should bounties be brought back to $200? Or perhaps more?

Anyway, enjoy the sudden flood of paintings on the market. I'm tossing up whether I should reveal my house or give it another go sometime, given that it is still far from compromised (as long as ukuko or the hacker don't post an expose).

Americans17 · 2014-02-25 18:20:55

Could you give some tips to rober a house, what set up you bring generaly? You rob any house, no matter how scary it looks?

Leaf · 2014-02-25 18:26:11

Americans17 wrote:

Could you give some tips to rober a house, what set up you bring generaly? You rob any house, no matter how scary it looks?

Here's a tip... start out by not robbing anyone. First you need to collect tools. You do this by being selective about your traps. One of the things I chose to do was avoid dogs. This means people bring a lot of dogfood to my house for no reason.

Then comes step 1 of the raid... the initial exploration. You want to watch out for clocks, commit gates, and anything else that can ruin your party. You should bring a couple saws and 4 dog meat. Then map the base out as much as possible. If you can beat it... beat it. If you need a gun to kill the wife- make note.

Step 2 is more difficult. Now that you have the outline of the base you need to decide 1 of 2 things. 1) I know what tools it will take to break his base... OR 2) I need to go on an advanced scouting run, to further understand his base. Option 2 usually involves the defender having a combination lock or something that makes it difficult to solve. If it's #1... bring the tools and end it!

And that's it.

joshwithguitar · 2014-02-25 18:37:15

Americans17 wrote:

Could you give some tips to rober a house, what set up you bring generaly? You rob any house, no matter how scary it looks?

Well, one important thing is to only rob houses that have enough money in the vault to back up how scary they look. What to bring really depends on the house you are robbing and also what tools you already have in your vault. And it is something that is changing all the time - there was a time when I could get to most top vaults with a bunch of saws and maybe 2 explosives and a ladder (plus cheap meat etc.). Now if you rob a house over $40k you'll probably need a bit more than that.

An important thing to do is to always scout first unless there is a prohibitively expensive entry fee. Scouting with a bunch of cheap tools can give you a good idea of the type of tools that will work in a certain house and can save you a lot of money in the end.

One more tip - don't always follow the path the creator of the house has set for you. A lot of houses put the vault in the bottom left corner and it only takes a few explosives to bypass most of the house. Bash through thin looking walls and see what is past them and always look for shortcuts.

Basically the more you rob the better you will get at knowing what to expect and bring. Also watching tapes of successful robbers in your house is one of the best teaching tools. I'm not going to give all of my strategies and know how away - this is a game about learning through playing and in many ways the wiki and guides take away from that part of the game.

Edit: I don't want this to become a thread about successful house invasion - I'd much prefer discussing the question of whether the game needs more money injected into it. There are already threads about increasing house defence - perhaps one could be added for robber strategies? (Though, again, this is a game about learning through playing so I don't think such a thing is necessary).

Last edited by joshwithguitar (2014-02-25 18:41:23)

Storm · 2014-02-25 20:23:06

That sucks man. I would have wished you a more glorious death than what the fates gave you.

personally I feel that keeping less money circulating would make things more interesting especially as everyone becomes more skilled as most likely robbing a house would become more of a long term endeavor involving multiple attacks/counterattacks between players. It takes a very large amount of money to bruteforce a filled out well-built endgame home, but with relatively large amounts of money circulating compared to skill levels, the endgame is about trying to counter bruteforcing in some way. With less money I feel that people would be able to make multiple robbery attempts against each other (while each one tries to adapt their house to the last attempt) before one of them finally takes the other one down. Especially if both of them are skilled enough and money was low/slow enough. would make for much more epic player vs player warfare if there was a way to find a balance in that direction.
And who knows, maybe people midrange would start attacking their neighbors more often under those conditions...

Last edited by Storm (2014-02-25 22:21:16)

Amatiel · 2014-02-26 07:08:47

Like any economy, it needs to be managed according to the circumstances of the day.

It seems we have had something of a boom bust cycle here, boom times around steam launch, so the dev raised interest rates (decreased bounty)

The situation has settled recently however and the economy has certainly slowed. Perhaps its time to lower interest rates (increase bounty)?

I throw my lot in with re-raising bounty to $200. Fewer robbers means that i have to wait longer before i have resources to do anything. I raised a kind of similar but not really thread about advanced electronics scaring off newer players, with my aim being ultimately to inject more robbers/money/activity into the game by retaining/attracting more players.

Re-raising bounties is a good way to compensate for fewer player numbers to keep the existing community active.

ukuko · 2014-02-26 09:17:16

I'd say it's time to put bounties back up to $200, or even $500.

Now that the house list defaults to your own neighbourhood it seems that robberies are spread more evenly across the wealth range, rather than the richer houses snowballing like crazy on the front page.

BoxDrunken · 2014-02-26 09:47:12

I only had two visits last night and only 1 death, currently sitting at the 20k range. My theory your house is only robbed by a substantial number of people when its worth 5k to 9k id even go as far as saying you could start your house range @ 2500 and the kills would start rolling in. But once you crest the 10k worth mark it slows down significantly, Once you get to 20k it drop's off all together it seems. Leaving you to your own devices if you want to accumulate money, I like the way things are going and i don't think they needed to be changed. I think we should just watch see what happens people are just scared to go rob other people because they don't want to die.

Amatiel · 2014-02-26 10:03:00

When im starting out I ALWAYS start from highest value houses and work my way down. By my philosophy the high value houses should be getting smashed the most but if those are the numbers you are receiving then either u have a way too scary house (poxy magic dances right off the bat) or maybe everyone does it differently to me.

I have never built my own place with the starting 2k, always been 5k to 60k.

The worst that can happen is I fail and get chills on that house for 24 hrs.... and i probably learn something along the way. I have always managed to rob someone before i get down to the 2k range, and i have had to rebuild A LOT of times.

Does everyone else start from scratch with a 2k house, plucking the low hanging fruit of 1-2k houses to improve their house at an agonizingly slow rate???? o_0

MMaster · 2014-02-26 10:36:25

Amatiel wrote:

Does everyone else start from scratch with a 2k house, plucking the low hanging fruit of 1-2k houses to improve their house at an agonizingly slow rate???? o_0

All of my houses started like that - I never rob anyone and always use the 2k to build my starter house. Within few hours I have several thousand to build with. I would not call that "agonizingly slow rate". I'm currently at top with ~$150k with house that I thought was not good enough. I can confirm what was said here - the higher value house the less visits you have. It's not like people come and leave because they are scared. They simply don't come. The visits start reducing at ~$30k. After that I've got most of my money from people that come with loads of tools and die too soon to use them.

LiteS · 2014-02-26 10:45:55

I think people are finally starting to understand that houses don't get to over 25k unless they are completely immune to 2k worth of tools. I think this is a good thing.

JoyOfTrapping · 2014-02-26 10:58:30

MMaster wrote:

I'm currently at top with ~$150k with house

Last night was the end of my Steven Elliot Vinson run. After I felt it was good and over, I money bombed my buddy with my $45k bounty. He tried to rob you and take 1st, but it was very late. Probably partially due to tiredness, partially due to the fact that you don't always make the best decisions with money that you didn't have to work for, he cut it close, right up to the sirens, and had to make a rushed decision and died.

He dumped a bunch of tools in your house. May the spirit of Steven Elliot Vinson live on in you, and find his true resting place, at the top of the list.

Don't thank me now.

Amatiel · 2014-02-26 11:11:46

LiteS wrote:

I think people are finally starting to understand that houses don't get to over 25k unless they are completely immune to 2k worth of tools. I think this is a good thing.

NO house is immune to 2k of or even 1k of tools.

Remember u only have to partially solve the house then just use the tools to assist you, give you more chances when u open the wrong door etc.

MMaster · 2014-02-26 11:18:41

JoyOfTrapping wrote:

MMaster wrote:
I'm currently at top with ~$150k with house
Last night was the end of my Steven Elliot Vinson run. After I felt it was good and over, I money bombed my buddy with my $45k bounty. He tried to rob you and take 1st, but it was very late. Probably partially due to tiredness, partially due to the fact that you don't always make the best decisions with money that you didn't have to work for, he cut it close, right up to the sirens, and had to make a rushed decision and died.
He dumped a bunch of tools in your house. May the spirit of Steven Elliot Vinson live on in you, and find his true resting place, at the top of the list.
Don't thank me now.

R.I.P Steven Ellion Vinson. Apart from that I'm sorry, but I don't feel any thankful feelings :-) I wanted to get rid of this house and nobody could rob it. Then Curry had accident in it yesterday. I had around $60k at that time. Just 6 hours later I woke up and I was at $100k. Really surprised to see Darren Peter Perry jump on sleeping dog with loads of tools and $8600 bounty. Later William Frank Glick tried to rob me with loads of tools and another $4100 bounty (his fault as he didn't consider how much electric floors are behind him and cut off his path to exit). Then I decided to scout second house on the list and saw usual family dog protection so I brought some guns and got to his wife just to get another $30k and as I had some explosives at hand (just in case) and his wife was dead I have decided to use those explosives and there was the safe - just 3 ladders from me. So I jumped back to my house and brought 3 ladders and there it was - nice paintings and another $30k. Pure luck! And if he is reading this - don't put your safe on a place that is directly visible from place where your wife is when you break just single wall.
I'm really curious to see when my house will fall. I just got rid of the money in the past to hide from the top places, but I have decided to keep the place and watch how it will go :-)

MMaster · 2014-02-26 11:22:31

Amatiel wrote:

LiteS wrote:
I think people are finally starting to understand that houses don't get to over 25k unless they are completely immune to 2k worth of tools. I think this is a good thing.
NO house is immune to 2k of or even 1k of tools.
Remember u only have to partially solve the house then just use the tools to assist you, give you more chances when u open the wrong door etc.

If you know how to pass it you don't need any tools, but I don't believe you can rob any of the top 8 houses with $2k tools. You usually need ladders, explosives and torches. Just 1 ladder + 1 explosive is more than $2k and it is certainly not enough to pass the magic dance/combo lock traps. Even if you try it several times.

Amatiel · 2014-02-26 11:50:35

MMaster wrote:

Amatiel wrote:
LiteS wrote:
I think people are finally starting to understand that houses don't get to over 25k unless they are completely immune to 2k worth of tools. I think this is a good thing.
NO house is immune to 2k of or even 1k of tools.
Remember u only have to partially solve the house then just use the tools to assist you, give you more chances when u open the wrong door etc.
If you know how to pass it you don't need any tools, but I don't believe you can rob any of the top 8 houses with $2k tools. You usually need ladders, explosives and torches. Just 1 ladder + 1 explosive is more than $2k and it is certainly not enough to pass the magic dance/combo lock traps. Even if you try it several times.

I have done it at least 5 times

Ofc ones that involve big magic dances or are massive combination locks are nearly impossible (fuck these houses they are cancer). just keep making ur way down the list and eventually you will find one that is a bit easier. You might even fail the first time but i have been able to retry it after chills expired and succeed.

I refuse to use magic dances and huge combination locks. They are lame, unoriginal and boring. Fair enough if you are trying to hoard 150K but unless that's the case, you suck if you employ these traps.

ESPECIALLY THIS ONE, half the houses in top 15 are using this crap atm

http://castledraft.com/editor/ENMFcm

Storm · 2014-02-26 19:57:49

Amatiel wrote:

Fewer robbers means that i have to wait longer before i have resources to do anything.

just how long would you have to wait before deciding to leave your house?

Amatiel · 2014-02-26 19:59:40

Storm wrote:

Amatiel wrote:
Fewer robbers means that i have to wait longer before i have resources to do anything.
just how long would you have to wait before deciding to leave your house?

until i get at least 5k for tools or improvements

Storm · 2014-02-26 20:11:48

Amatiel wrote:

Storm wrote:
Amatiel wrote:
Fewer robbers means that i have to wait longer before i have resources to do anything.
just how long would you have to wait before deciding to leave your house?
until i get at least 5k for tools or improvements

that's really not difficult between 3.5 and 15k. you can max your house out in 2 or 3 days staying in that range. If you're building a house with the starting 2k and expecting it to go quickly then that's your problem right there. If your house is maxed and you want more money like many people, go rob. scout houses 5-15k higher than you

Last edited by Storm (2014-02-26 20:12:25)

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One week at the top

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