Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

NoisySplatter · 2013-05-17 22:40:50

As far as I can tell several of the top houses are in a permanently unsolvable state because of modifications previously saved to the house. Since they are now effectively impregnable all their owners have to do is not die.

I propose that some mechanic is added by which house owners are made to re-verify the fairness of their own houses at the beginning of each play session whether or not changes have been made in order to avoid such issues.

dalleck · 2013-05-17 23:19:38

If I understand your proposal correctly, this already happens. If a house is changed through a break-in, when the owner logs in they must verify the fairness of it before leaving.

Last edited by dalleck (2013-05-17 23:19:57)

colorfusion · 2013-05-18 04:06:22

This already happens.
I think less of the top houses than you think are actually broken, most are just guessing puzzles that would take hundreds of thousands of guesses.

There will still be some broken ones, but only where the owner hasn't come on yet, and I remember Jason saying at one point that these broken traps are almost part of the game; they leave you wondering if any traps are actually possible or not.

NoisySplatter · 2013-05-19 18:33:06

There is no way this was ever legitimately solved by its owner.

http://castlefortify.com/?id=e8d6319

setz · 2013-05-20 07:11:24

I have seen that house NoisySplatter and always thought it was completely impossible. How do you know this is the exact layout though?

colorfusion · 2013-05-20 11:28:19

NoisySplatter wrote:

There is no way this was ever legitimately solved by its owner.
http://castlefortify.com/?id=e8d6319

From what I understand castlefortify is just a user made site for planning out your builds, you don't know that's the actual design in game.

NoisySplatter · 2013-05-20 16:00:47

From getting frustrated enough to hack the game to have a look. There is no way there should be a trap that kills you on the first tile so I figured cheating wasn't all that bad in this situation.

colorfusion · 2013-05-21 08:15:42

NoisySplatter wrote:

From getting frustrated enough to hack the game to have a look. There is no way there should be a trap that kills you on the first tile so I figured cheating wasn't all that bad in this situation.

Some traps are broken by past thieves, the owner didn't have to cheat to get their house into a state where it's not possible.

Not sure how smart it is to admit to hacking for an advantage on the official forums, although I suppose what you did wasn't too bad.

Last edited by colorfusion (2013-05-21 08:19:37)

NoisySplatter · 2013-05-21 12:35:57

colorfusion wrote:

NoisySplatter wrote:
From getting frustrated enough to hack the game to have a look. There is no way there should be a trap that kills you on the first tile so I figured cheating wasn't all that bad in this situation.
Some traps are broken by past thieves, the owner didn't have to cheat to get their house into a state where it's not possible.
Not sure how smart it is to admit to hacking for an advantage on the official forums, although I suppose what you did wasn't too bad.

Jason said cheating is acceptable if you can prove a flaw in the game. This is an alpha after all.

The problem is that you can just get kicked out of your own house to the robbery menu by idling for a long time. This has the effect of leaving your trap in its last saved state and also putting your house back onto the robbery market for more unwitting rubes to die in.

Last edited by NoisySplatter (2013-05-21 12:48:04)

da11eck · 2013-05-22 06:23:46

NoisySplatter wrote:

colorfusion wrote:
NoisySplatter wrote:
From getting frustrated enough to hack the game to have a look. There is no way there should be a trap that kills you on the first tile so I figured cheating wasn't all that bad in this situation.
Some traps are broken by past thieves, the owner didn't have to cheat to get their house into a state where it's not possible.
Not sure how smart it is to admit to hacking for an advantage on the official forums, although I suppose what you did wasn't too bad.
Jason said cheating is acceptable if you can prove a flaw in the game. This is an alpha after all.
The problem is that you can just get kicked out of your own house to the robbery menu by idling for a long time. This has the effect of leaving your trap in its last saved state and also putting your house back onto the robbery market for more unwitting rubes to die in.

Don't worry about the flack you are getting for reading houses in from the stdout file or the game file, many of us do it, and I call it 'debugging'. This is why Jason is introducing maps after all, so don't feel bad. You have shown that the player who created this house is the true hacker, as he is manipulating the code of the game to create a challenge which is unfair for other players.

By the way, what is the players name? I can't boot the game up at the moment to check it out. I always assumed that house was simply impossible because it had been attempted and was broken, but you have shown this is not the case. Anyways, report it to Jason and he will wipe it.

Last edited by da11eck (2013-05-22 06:45:51)

DrNoid · 2013-05-22 13:51:29

It's probably not a hack at all, but a house that becomes impossible once robbed. I think the dog used to be on the other side of the switch, as with the dog there you can just walk over the traps. However, once 1 robber has done that, and reached the vault, the new position of the dog is stored, making the house impossible to rob.

Blip · 2013-05-22 14:36:55

DrNoid wrote:

It's probably not a hack at all, but a house that becomes impossible once robbed. I think the dog used to be on the other side of the switch, as with the dog there you can just walk over the traps. However, once 1 robber has done that, and reached the vault, the new position of the dog is stored, making the house impossible to rob.

Actually, this house's state could not be due to a previous robbery. If it was, the first, supposedly successful, robber would have first walked right and to the vault. For that switch to be inactive, as it is, it would have initially been active, before the pit bull would walk over it. This means that the electric floor would have power initially, making the house unbeatable by its owner. Therefore, they must have used a modified client to verify their house, before there was a safeguard against it. I bet that, if Jason checks the tapes, that's what he would find.

bgorven · 2013-05-22 22:42:30

Blip wrote:

DrNoid wrote:
It's probably not a hack at all, but a house that becomes impossible once robbed. I think the dog used to be on the other side of the switch, as with the dog there you can just walk over the traps. However, once 1 robber has done that, and reached the vault, the new position of the dog is stored, making the house impossible to rob.
Actually, this house's state could not be due to a previous robbery. If it was, the first, supposedly successful, robber would have first walked right and to the vault. For that switch to be inactive, as it is, it would have initially been active, before the pit bull would walk over it. This means that the electric floor would have power initially, making the house unbeatable by its owner. Therefore, they must have used a modified client to verify their house, before there was a safeguard against it. I bet that, if Jason checks the tapes, that's what he would find.

Non-sticking switches don't get their state saved. Check the wiki.

dalleck · 2013-05-23 01:18:25

DrNoid wrote:

It's probably not a hack at all, but a house that becomes impossible once robbed. I think the dog used to be on the other side of the switch, as with the dog there you can just walk over the traps. However, once 1 robber has done that, and reached the vault, the new position of the dog is stored, making the house impossible to rob.

Yes DrNoid you are correct. I was a bit tired yesterday when I scanned this map, but it is very obvious on closer inspection that this house is set up as a one-time rob, which I always suspected it was. So yes, good job to the map creator.

jasonrohrer · 2013-05-23 15:45:44

Do you really think people are idling for 5 minutes in order to get out of editing their houses? Obviously, a modded client could bypass the editing screen entirely.

There's also the problem of someone making a top house and then abandoning it.

I've found at least one player who must be skipping the forced-re-edit in one way or another. Will think about how to fix it.

Abandoned houses are harder to deal with.

The ability to make a one-time robbable house seems pretty interesting. Though I guess it's so easy to do that most people will include such a feature. After that, these houses linger forever...

Keeping houses around at all, after they are successfully robbed, was added to give people more robbery targets (otherwise, there are simply not enough houses to rob).

However, in the new world of super-hard houses, maybe this isn't a problem.

steakbbq · 2013-05-23 22:13:30

What about something where every week the world resets?

The Castle Doctrine Forums

#1 2013-05-17 22:40:50

Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#2 2013-05-17 23:19:38

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#3 2013-05-18 04:06:22

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#4 2013-05-19 18:33:06

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#5 2013-05-20 07:11:24

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#6 2013-05-20 11:28:19

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#7 2013-05-20 16:00:47

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#8 2013-05-21 08:15:42

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#9 2013-05-21 12:35:57

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#10 2013-05-22 06:23:46

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#11 2013-05-22 13:51:29

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#12 2013-05-22 14:36:55

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#13 2013-05-22 22:42:30

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#14 2013-05-23 01:18:25

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#15 2013-05-23 15:45:44

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

#16 2013-05-23 22:13:30

Re: Prevent Broken Impossible Houses

Board footer