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#1 2013-06-06 08:16:34

Eliijahh
Member
Registered: 2013-06-06
Posts: 6

Death setting your own house

I've started playing the game a couple of days ago and I'm getting really frustrated setting up my own house.

I see the houses of rich people being complex and un-breakable for my skills, well ok, I will try with lesser houses and in the mean time learn by setting up traps for my house and my family.
Well, everytime I try new things 50/50 I get killed by setting up my house. Wouldn't it be better to make yourself invincible while testing your own house?
You would still die if a pitbull bite your butt or you get stuck in a powered floor, but at least the house layout wouldn't reset and the money disappear.

I mean, it would just make sense so that begginers could train faster to understand the more complex stuff of the game, and each time I build my house I don't have to be afraid to do something wrong, making the process much faster and more learning-safe.

What do you think?

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#2 2013-06-06 08:28:23

colorfusion
Member
Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 537

Re: Death setting your own house

I think dying while testing your own house is a big part of the game.

If you are unsure of your house design then use safe alternatives to the deadly things you are using. Instead of electric grates and trapdoors use lights, instead of pitbulls use chiwawas and so on.

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#3 2013-06-06 08:33:53

Eliijahh
Member
Registered: 2013-06-06
Posts: 6

Re: Death setting your own house

It may be, but it seems to me that it doesn't add anything to the game.

Be punished because the owner of another house you're robbing outsmarted you it is understandable. But the game punishing you because you did something wrong building you house by destroying your house and resetting everything isn't a little pointless?
For example a little bit before I was editing my house, adding one piece of wall to reinforce the maze perimeter, and I had to manage to do my puzzle again. I didn't remember a dog and BUM, all my design was cancelled by a moment of distraction. I think having to edit all dogs to chihuaua everytime I have to edit my house is pointless and a waste of time.

EDIT: I'm just pointing this out since the learning curve, as before said by other members of the forum, is horribly steep. Not being able to build a house by learning by your mistakes makes me feel like I'll never be able to reach the skills of those players that have some mental problems to build those incredible houses wink

Last edited by Eliijahh (2013-06-06 08:44:33)

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#4 2013-06-06 08:55:46

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Death setting your own house

Eliiijahh:  Don't worry, we all went through exactly the same thing.  Dying creating your own house is actually part of the experience of playing the game.  I find myself regularly quitting the game in disgust after a pathetic death, only to be back at it the next day coming up with a new design.

And sometimes the tension of testing your own house you have spent hours creating can actually be greater than breaking into another house.  I mean, at least when you are in another house you have a blueprint to look at if you are lost, right?


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#5 2013-06-06 08:58:25

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Death setting your own house

I know the feeling, especially after a sloppy repair after a breakin. Gets me half the time.

Some tips on that are using floorlights, chihuahuas etc. for testing and then LEAVING your house again when testing instead of walking onto the safe. This returns you to build mode and you can replace stuff without having to pay for it. That way you can test safely without wasting money.


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#6 2013-06-06 09:13:02

DrNoid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 56

Re: Death setting your own house

One thing that might make it a bit easier would be treating the first attempt differently.
If you are testing a house built with just the starting 6K, after death you get the option to restart with your house already re-built.

It could even be that if your house costs less than 6K to built, you get the option of starting over with a pre-built house.

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#7 2013-06-06 10:16:57

jere
Member
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 540

Re: Death setting your own house

But the game punishing you because you did something wrong building you house by destroying your house and resetting everything isn't a little pointless?

It makes the game incredibly intense. I can feel my heart pumping every time I do it.

I think the key to learning the game is to be OK with dying a lot until you get the hang of things. It's somewhat counterproductive to get emotionally invested in your first fews house. If you don't understand how something works, create a little test to figure it out; be willing to die to figure it out. Restarting and getting a fresh $6k is the easiest thing to do in the game.


Golden Krone Hotel - a vampire roguelike

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#8 2013-06-06 10:37:32

jearr
Member
Registered: 2013-04-18
Posts: 42

Re: Death setting your own house

jere wrote:

I think the key to learning the game is to be OK with dying a lot...

This is absolutely the key.  However.. it still sucks to lose all your work.  Dying during self-test has been one of the biggest frustrations for me.

jere wrote:

Restarting and getting a fresh $6k is the easiest thing to do in the game.

The increased starting money is a double-edged sword.  It's great for making a house that has a chance of actually being defended.  But it also more work to lose when you screw up.

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#9 2013-06-06 10:47:30

Eliijahh
Member
Registered: 2013-06-06
Posts: 6

Re: Death setting your own house

Though everything else has been realized pretty well, except maybe the too much reading wires and being an electrician kind of thing, I find dying while testing your alarms so unrealistic!

I mean, come on, you make your traps and then you MUST test them and then DIE if you test them wrong. That is a little dumb. I agree that it is really heart beating when you have to do that, but not as heart beating as breaking into other people houses. I mean, bulding your trap and then breaking other people's trap. Why should I also break mine? That's not the point of the game.

I mean, if I have to test my traps, I would put the electricity floor on 1volt instead of 1000. Or the dogs, well they would recognize me. For pits I would put a soft bed under them so I could not die for the fall. I mean, if I have to die testing my own traps, I must say that my character, and all the characters, must be pretty dumb people.

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#10 2013-06-07 22:03:23

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Death setting your own house

This is part of the aesthetic point of the game.  You're building traps that are going to perma-death some other player and make THAT player lose everything (lose their house, their family, their paintings, and all their hard work).  It's only fair that your traps would do the same thing to you.

Security (even in real life) also has a cost for the person who the security is meant to protect.  In a bad part of a big city, you might have 4 locks on your door.  But you wouldn't have 100 locks on your door, because that would be too much cost for you getting in and out.  You also could have an automated turret to shoot burglars, but you don't have that because it's too dangerous to you, the owner (what if the turret shoots you by mistake?).  If you have a vicious attack dog protecting your house, there's a good chance that the dog will turn on you (or your kids) eventually.  The majority of people killed by pitbulls each year?  The OWNERS of those pitbulls (for real!).

And, in the game, what good is a lock if the owner can't get in without dying?  So, you can't just design anything you can imagine.... you must design something that keeps others out while also letting you get in SAFELY.

And, you face the same risks that the robbers face when you enter your own house.

Yes, this leads to a lot of frustration, even for me, when I play my own game.  But I think a lot of this has to do with how we are used to playing modern video games:  very casually and sloppily, because nothing you do really matters and there are no real consequences (just reload from the last save).

It is possible to play this game extremely carefully and NEVER die.  This is the way you would behave in real life if you were handling deadly traps.  You wouldn't just charge in....  you'd install some back doors first.  You'd test every part first.

Note that this is not unfair, ever.  Death is never random or unpreventable.  Death is always your own fault.  Which makes it feel even worse!  When you die in FTL and lose your whole ship, most of the time, you can blame it on a bad roll of the dice.  That's comforting!  And it makes you want to play again, immediately, because the dice might roll differently next time.  But in this game, there's no one to blame but yourself for death.  Not comforting, and it makes you want to quit playing.

I'm trying to make a game that gives you a different experience from anything you've ever had in a game before.  Otherwise, what's the point of making it?

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#11 2013-06-10 09:52:11

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Death setting your own house

Eliijahh wrote:

Though everything else has been realized pretty well, except maybe the too much reading wires and being an electrician kind of thing, I find dying while testing your alarms so unrealistic!

I mean, come on, you make your traps and then you MUST test them and then DIE if you test them wrong. That is a little dumb. I agree that it is really heart beating when you have to do that, but not as heart beating as breaking into other people houses. I mean, bulding your trap and then breaking other people's trap. Why should I also break mine? That's not the point of the game.

I mean, if I have to test my traps, I would put the electricity floor on 1volt instead of 1000. Or the dogs, well they would recognize me. For pits I would put a soft bed under them so I could not die for the fall. I mean, if I have to die testing my own traps, I must say that my character, and all the characters, must be pretty dumb people.

as jason said, i find it to be very true that the self-test is a large part of the castle doctrine experience. even when you have tested your house a hundred times before and you are just patching up a hole in the wall, the self-test is always tense.

it was very frustrating at the start. but you learned. i feel like i learned a lot quicker because of how harsh the price of a mistake was! after a week or so dying on a self-test became more of a 'well if you don't laugh you'll just feel bad' kind of acceptance of the reality of your mistake. two hours planning out how to best spend your winnings, and then you forgot to push that button just before dashing through the powered door which has sealed you into what you just realised will be your tomb. your own home has swallowed you up because you forgot to push the button that secures the dogs in their kennels..

komm, süßer tod..



and then on the flip-side, overwhelmingly awesome senses of joy and relief when you do manage to get through your deadly traps alive smile

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#12 2013-06-10 12:16:14

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Death setting your own house

largestherb wrote:

and then on the flip-side, overwhelmingly awesome senses of joy and relief when you do manage to get through your deadly traps alive smile

Yeah, obviously that yang can't exist without the corresponding yin of dying in your own house due to your own folly.

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