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#1 2013-06-21 20:04:28

jere
Member
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 540

Multiple floors

It might be too early for this, but what about multiple floors? Thinking about roguelikes makes me wonder about descending and ascending stairs. And while I know that "climbing the ranks" is supposed to substitute for descending into the dungeon, it would serve that purpose and more.

Right now, there's a pretty low ceiling on what you can build and multiple floors would add a lot of depth... ba dum tsh. No, seriously. As far as I can tell, any house can be beaten in less than $30k (half the house being trapdoors: $600*(30+15)=$27k). You can climb up the ranks, but the ranks only go so high. Multiple floors would extend that.

At first, I thought about a larger map size. Maybe a 45x45  tile house? But I assume additional floors of the same size would map nicely onto the existing data structures and code. Besides, how cool would it be to have your own "levels"? The way I'm imagining it is you'd buy an additional floor for maybe $10k and you'd have to stock it, so it's obviously quite pricey... reserved for the wealthy. The floors would operate independently except for matching staircase tiles. However, the canonical solution to a house might require climbing up and down repeatedly. Perhaps you could even build both up and down (basement levels) to store your safe or serve as diversions.


Golden Krone Hotel - a vampire roguelike

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#2 2013-06-22 05:42:44

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Multiple floors

I thought of that at some point as well, but I felt terror at the options of ridiculously annoying defenses arising where different dogs on different levels are part of multi-layered magic dances etc., and it would allow people to build ridiculously complicated computers. (The size of 30x30 also seemed like quite a sweet spot limiting what electronics could do.)

Probably the only possible option would have to be that the "levels" can in no way be connected with wires etc, so that it would just be another house basically.

Still, this sandbox nature of the game as it is feels more viable to me.


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#3 2013-06-22 07:07:30

jere
Member
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 540

Re: Multiple floors

I felt terror at the options of ridiculously annoying defenses arising where different dogs on different levels are part of multi-layered magic dances etc., and it would allow people to build ridiculously complicated computers. (The size of 30x30 also seemed like quite a sweet spot limiting what electronics could do.)
Probably the only possible option would have to be that the "levels" can in no way be connected with wires etc, so that it would just be another house basically.

Right, that's what I meant by the floors operating independently. No multi-floor electronics.

How would this be different than just another house? Well, the stairs would make it more interesting. The homeowner solution could involve climbing to a second floor, going going down a long hallway, then climbing back down, going through a maze, climbing back up, rinse and repeat a few times... long story short, each floor could have multiple entrances. The floors could have interdependent labyrinths, but no connected electronics. It'd also be kind of cool if higher level trapdoors/pits didn't kill you, but simply transported you down one floor.

Yea, this would add a little bit of complexity, but that's the idea. It's the next logical step of protection once you've maxed out your house. It's the AMERICAN DREAM.

With the current prices, the optimal house seems to be a magic floor dance driving a ridiculously long trapdoor path and 90% of the house being pits. Well, I've already seen that. A few times. What's next?


Golden Krone Hotel - a vampire roguelike

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#4 2013-06-22 07:25:24

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Multiple floors

I feel your pain, as in "nothing new is happening", but I fear that the first thing that would happen is a 90-deep-trapdoor house, or rather: I'm sure that's what would happen. wink

The second fear I would have is that there would be three-dimensional magic dances basically, and I already despise those lines of switches SO MUCH! Three dimensions - f''k me I'm out. 

As I said, I do like the idea in general, but I feel it wouldn't work in this game. The point here also rather seems to be that everybody fights everybody eventually, so if you become very rich, the sheer boredom might be another encouragement to go out and robbing people, and you can never be secure since there is a limit, and in the end, something less brute might prove to be more secure than a block of concrete. But I think I'll just shut up now and wait for the game to work again. wink


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#5 2013-06-22 08:03:38

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Multiple floors

I think the ability to create a single extra storey onto your house with 'upstairs' and 'downstairs' which both exist and function at the same time (but with separated electronics) is pretty cool.  This would allow for open bridges across the top of the level and many other interesting things I can't even think of yet.

The game could just create two houses per player , as has been said, the upstairs would start off as a house full of pits (which would have to actually be a blank sprite), and charge to drop a floor tile down, and you would obviously need to switch between levels during house editing by climbing a set of stairs.
During robbing, the game would display both houses simultaneously, when downstairs, the upstairs would cast a shadow on the floor, and when upstairs you should only see downstairs through any openings or windows.  It would add a great sense of depth. lol wink

There would, also need to be a new tool to access between the levels as well, such as a grappling hook and rope.

The trickiest part is probably creating the rules between each items between different levels (such as falling/flying pit bulls).

Maybe you could smash your way through to different levels.

Makes me smile to consider a pit bull flying at you through a hole you just made in the ceiling. smile

Last edited by dalleck (2013-06-22 08:55:51)


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#6 2013-06-22 09:10:51

zed
Member
Registered: 2013-04-16
Posts: 161

Re: Multiple floors

Not a bad idea... with multiple floors, you could reduce the size of each floor - which would make hidden logic harder to pull off both because you have less room for walls and because you have to guard it on both levels...

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#7 2013-06-22 09:16:55

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Multiple floors

I thought about that as well, kind of a "pick your layout - do you want one floor w 30x30, or two w 20x20 etc. but the initial suggestion was  an extra floor to be bought later on in the game (with enough cash).

Idk, sounds like an interesting mod.


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#8 2013-06-22 09:30:10

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Multiple floors

bey bey wrote:

I thought about that as well, kind of a "pick your layout - do you want one floor w 30x30, or two w 20x20 etc. but the initial suggestion was  an extra floor to be bought later on in the game (with enough cash).

Why does it need to be a smaller map if there is a second storey?

And my idea would basically amount to the second storey being bought later.  If stairs were made to cost $1000, and floor pieces $100, it could get very expensive very quickly. 

For example, to make a 10x10 square with stairs would cost you $11,000.
(That is without any furnishings. :)

Last edited by dalleck (2013-06-22 09:32:13)


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#9 2013-06-22 09:51:28

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Multiple floors

Yeah, I actually wanted to point out just that. wink


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#10 2013-06-22 10:13:26

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Multiple floors

...and I just realised that it would probably work better if you are limited to blowing up the floor on the second level, rather than the ceiling on the first.  A subtle difference, but much easier to manage.

Last edited by dalleck (2013-06-22 10:13:52)


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#11 2013-06-22 14:22:41

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Multiple floors

This would be great as a mod (and not hard to do, as you all point out).

I'm trying to keep the game as simple as possible, however.

In terms of stagnation from various optimums, the idea is to deal with that directly in some way, not just push it off further by making houses inherently bigger or more complex.

Also, what's going on at the top isn't necessarily the interesting part of the game.  Once you get rich enough, you can build something dense and "as secure as possible."  That can stagnate.  But what do you build with your first $2000?  Or your first $5000?  Those are the houses that get the most robbery action, and there's the most room down there for tricky, interesting designs.

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