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Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.

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#1 2013-06-30 05:57:35

IknowU8me
Member
Registered: 2013-06-30
Posts: 11

Expansion

The game is brilliant, it's like tag (back and forth back and forth) skill will let you last longer etc etc.

I just thought there could be more, other than keeping your family safe which wont last forever and getting money you should be able to do more with the money other than buying paintings... these are just small suggestions:
-Living in your house, managing it and decorating it (tv and misc objects)
-Making the house/flat less generic and the exact same as everyone elses
-Buying multiple properties (and showing an actual location map where your properties and other properties are)

Just basicly a more open game??

Please leave your thoughts in the comments guys oh and HI I'm new smile

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#2 2013-06-30 06:29:47

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Expansion

Hi and welcome to the forum!  Have you been playing TCD for a while or are you a v.10 nubie?  Just curious for your impressions.

IknowU8me wrote:

The game is brilliant, it's like tag (back and forth back and forth) skill will let you last longer etc etc.

Yeah never thought of it like that, but I guess TCB is like tag, if tagging involved bitter revenge served upon enemies family members and pets with the aid of crowbars.

'Tag!  You're wife is dead."

But seriously, it does have that back-and-forth like tag.  Except some of the players spend all their time in their ivory towers looking down upon the battle, wishing they weren't so damn rich.

IknowU8me wrote:

I just thought there could be more, other than keeping your family safe which wont last forever and getting money you should be able to do more with the money other than buying paintings... these are just small suggestions:
-Living in your house, managing it and decorating it (tv and misc objects)
-Making the house/flat less generic and the exact same as everyone elses
-Buying multiple properties (and showing an actual location map where your properties and other properties are)

Just basicly a more open game??

Decorating is a nice idea, and similar things have been suggested.  The only problem is, it would kind of complicate the building interface with non-essentials like rugs, etc.  Plus, the world of TCD is meant to be pretty bleak and stark.

The great thing about this game is that it is completely open source, so anyone can make a new game from its bones.  I am looking forward to some programmers (like zed here on these forums) to take the heart of the game and make it something else entirely.  The sky is the limit.


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#3 2013-06-30 06:51:13

IknowU8me
Member
Registered: 2013-06-30
Posts: 11

Re: Expansion

I have been playing since rock paper shotgun gave their first so I think I was on V 3 and got bored and left and saw the updates and returned big_smile you're point about interfering is extremely true and also what you said about the game going for a bleak feel makes it seem cooler, I guess this game is in early alpha so what I'm really looking for (polish and individuality within the houses) will maybe put in with time. I'm not a great programmer I can just about make a calculator in C++ so I'll leave that shiz to the experts and thank you for the reply

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#4 2013-06-30 19:22:31

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Expansion

In general, I'm really trying to avoid "doing what every game already does."

You know, where Farmville wants to sell you a custom-painted tractor, and matching potholders, etc.  I'm selling you no customizable stuff at all.  Not even hats.  I know that a lot of people like that stuff.  But, you know, there's no shortage of games that do that.

I'm assuming that people are playing this game because they want something different.


Second, though this is a game about customizing a house---at it's very core, that's really the only thing it's about---it's not just about adding icing.  Every tile that you place in your house has a direct effect on gameplay.  Where you put your tiles is the gameplay.

So, yes, everyone is designing their own custom home, but not just "to be creative" or "to express yourself."  You're doing it for the explicit reason of keeping other players out.

You do end up expressing yourself by doing this, but it's more like the way that chess players express themselves through their moves than it is like a TF2 player express themselves through their hats.

So, while other games give you "tons of customization options," where you get to pick hair and eyebrow color and nose shape and kneepad texture, you're really never allowed to customize anything that actually matters in a significant way.

But can we make a viable game out of significant player customizations, as the main gameplay dish?  That's the experiment underway here.

All that said, what's with the paintings?  They seem out-of-place, given the above motivations.  Well, they give you something concrete and memorable to lust after, and they serve as traceable revenge-bait.  Something to steal, have stolen, and steal back.  They make a given robbery more meaningful and memorable.

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#5 2013-06-30 21:14:08

Ludicrosity
Member
From: US
Registered: 2013-06-22
Posts: 144

Re: Expansion

I love the paintings.

My only wish is that players could sell them through the already existing auctions (so that the player would receive whatever his/her piece sold for).

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#6 2013-06-30 22:45:28

segarch
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 59

Re: Expansion

Hmm.. This discussion definitely captures something interesting.  On one hand I've definitely caught myself wishing I could furnish some rooms to heighten the emotional impact of stepping into the "bedroom" of a family member, on the other hand I get that once you start going down the road of aesthetics that don't influence the core gameplay, it's starts to become kinda banal.   

What if something encouraged some kind of tradeoff.  I know the idea of putting paintings up in the house has come up before.. what if the family members "enjoyed" seeing those paintings, resulting in higher pay per hour, but more risk on a successful robbery?

This might go against the game philosophy, but another thought that popped in my head is, it would be cool if family members were programed to hit nearby switches when they see a burgler, allowing us to create traps that involve family members...


Share castle designs: http://castlefortify.com
Let me know about any Castle Fortify issues here: https://github.com/SethArchambault/CastleFortify/issues
Contributing is easy!  Check the readme: https://github.com/SethArchambault/CastleFortify
Twitter: @SethArchambault

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#7 2013-07-01 06:47:09

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Expansion

For the time being, family members will steer clear of traps and switches.  There are some implementation reasons for this, but it's also interesting to have to think differently about the design of two different parts of your house (the family part looks and operates differently from the vault part).

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#8 2013-07-01 08:44:04

IknowU8me
Member
Registered: 2013-06-30
Posts: 11

Re: Expansion

I just mean to have another edge, the game is about protecting your house and family, but the family are boring they just stand around and run away, the wife is just a way for robbers to get half your cash without even thinking so she is a liability so all that is left is your house, but at the moment you're just protecting an empty grey room, I get the whole morbid dark feel and it's cool, but what's more scary is the relation of the house, and the sentiment of the contents because of it's individuality.

I'm just saying that maybe money can be more than just make your house more harder to break into but it could be more fun because at the moment the 100,000 airs just sit tight and do nothing. So would I if I didn't want to lose all my stuff, (stuff being barren house that is unbreak-into-able) I just think another edge.

Obviously future content will be added maybe things like alarm systems etc, that is the core path being improved, but there needs to be motivation to carry on playing when you get rich or have been rich once etc. This is the reason (not comparing) multi-player shooters have so much online re-playability, it's because you want to play another game again and again.

In the end, a game of tag does get boring. But this doesn't have to! big_smile

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#9 2013-07-01 09:12:38

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Expansion

Well, the rich kids world has just seen major upheaval: I blew my 30-40k  (pointlessly) on Taber, Taber repaired his house and took down Smith (I think) and now rules supreme. If there were 6 instead of three rich players, there would be hacking and slashing on top as well.

Now, some poor, poor player might crack tabers dance and take down the whole thing.

The way to vent not-needed cash is paintings, by the way.


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#10 2013-07-01 09:37:10

colorfusion
Member
Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 537

Re: Expansion

bey bey wrote:

Well, the rich kids world has just seen major upheaval: I blew my 30-40k  (pointlessly) on Taber, Taber repaired his house and took down Smith (I think) and now rules supreme. If there were 6 instead of three rich players, there would be hacking and slashing on top as well.

Now, some poor, poor player might crack tabers dance and take down the whole thing.

The way to vent not-needed cash is paintings, by the way.

Yep, it was taber who took my house down.

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#11 2013-07-01 09:46:11

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Expansion

So you're Smith then.

Funny all that - If it had been me, I'd have gone after the guy who brought along 35k worth of tools to rob me, even though he failed. But then again, that's probably why he stays on top - only take out serious competition. big_smile


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#12 2013-07-01 10:05:02

IknowU8me
Member
Registered: 2013-06-30
Posts: 11

Re: Expansion

See! This is just a massive back and forth tag game which is really fun, but I'm saying it could be pushed further where the main point is not to have the most money but to protect whats yours and to have the right to do that (the castle doctrine) about protecting your house which is sentimental and individual and your family which should be more than 2 useless NPC's and a liability... Just a suggestion though.

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#13 2013-07-01 10:09:10

jearr
Member
Registered: 2013-04-18
Posts: 42

Re: Expansion

Players rarely attempt to produce houses that look anything like real houses, so vanity home objects would be pretty out of place.  There are obvious gameplay reasons why this is so (space is limited, point of game is to murder robbers, etc)  Still, I like when players add stylistic elements to their houses, such as mausoleums.  It makes them more interesting than a concrete wall leading to 20 trapdoors.  Having additional gameplay-related objects which also could be used for vanity building would probably be ideal.  For example, I already use doors and windows as vanity objects.

I love the idea of family triggering traps when they detect a robber.

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#14 2013-07-01 10:10:04

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Expansion

And a valid one at that!

Something that used to be a legal exploit but isn't anymore is killing children to save house state. Chills prevent the usefulness of that somewhat. 

It's strange how family used to be a massive liability better lost early, then became something cherished again with v8 (I once committed suicide to get my wife back in v8), and now became a massive liability again that one can be happy to lose, since their death takes your house out of the permanent rotation and thus out of harm's way after one successful robbery. Maybe I have just become jaded...


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#15 2013-07-01 11:29:28

IknowU8me
Member
Registered: 2013-06-30
Posts: 11

Re: Expansion

Exactly, what reason do you have to keep these NPC's alive other than for roleplay or as a challange, there needs to be another element of the game, I can't say what exactly yet but the game is about protecting YOUR beloved house not a random room because you can die infinite times and get that room again and also protecting YOUR beloved family, the same goes for them, maybe it's something like meeting a robber in your own house and begging him to leave, fighting, calling the cops or something I DON'T KNOW there needs to be another edge because at the moment there is only balance; no way of making you stay if you're on top, money should not be what drives you to stay alive in this game, it should be your house and family smile

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#16 2013-07-01 12:29:38

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Expansion

Well, a well-protected wife will (as you've pointed out) preserve half of your money if you get robbed.

Your vault must have a weakness (you must be able to reach it with no tools), but the rules for the family are different (you don't have to reach them during self-test at all, but they have to have an obstacle-free path to the exit---meaning also that you can reach them in build mode).

Killing a child causes the wife to run to the child (so if you fail to protect children, the wife will become vulnerable too).  Also, any family death causes the house state to save.

Now, after your family is totally gone, obviously, the game changes for you somewhat.

But, given that player #2 in the game right now (Black) still has all family members alive.... well... they're clearly not that much of a liability.  Even after the vault is hit for Black, he will still have $5K left to rebuild.

Especially now that money is harder to come by.  Not protecting them at the start of your fresh life will mean you get totally wiped out.

I fully understand the desire for customization.  But I'd never want icing to be the reason you keep playing one of my games. 

I'd rather fix and balance it so that it's way more than just tag.  So that people say, "You know what, this game has no icing, but it doesn't even need it, it's that good!"

The FPS multiplayer example hinges on realtime reflex and tactical skill among players.  It's the same reason you never get bored of basketball. 

This is a bit different from chess, in that there isn't the direct back-and-forth of move and response.  Maybe a bit, but way slower and over weeks.

The hope is that, as house design evolves over time, there will be an endless supply of interesting stuff happening.

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#17 2013-07-01 12:45:00

segarch
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 59

Re: Expansion

jasonrohrer wrote:

Killing a child causes the wife to run to the child (so if you fail to protect children, the wife will become vulnerable too).  Also, any family death causes the house state to save.

Oh wow, good to see this is a feature - I noticed this during a game, and it only heightened the brutality of what the robber was doing.  She would have gotten away if not for grief..

And now a completely Random thought: what would bulldogs be like if they only became activated on sight of the robber?


Share castle designs: http://castlefortify.com
Let me know about any Castle Fortify issues here: https://github.com/SethArchambault/CastleFortify/issues
Contributing is easy!  Check the readme: https://github.com/SethArchambault/CastleFortify
Twitter: @SethArchambault

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#18 2013-07-01 20:05:52

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Expansion

jasonrohrer wrote:

Killing a child causes the wife to run to the child (so if you fail to protect children, the wife will become vulnerable too).  Also, any family death causes the house state to save.

i've noticed something else, too.. but i can't remember which way around it was..

i entered a house, found a dead partner and two living children. the children ran. i killed one that lagged behind, and to my surprise, the one that was getting away turned right around and came back to their dead sibling and stood there, much like the partner does when you kill a child.

it struck me as strange because i'd never noticed that behaviour before..

this was a long time ago though, so i can't remember which recordedgame file it would be sad

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#19 2013-07-02 07:25:24

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Expansion

Hmmm, yeah, if that happened, then it's a bug!

I just tested it, and it doesn't seem to be working that way on my end.  If you ever catch it again, please send me the recording!

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#20 2013-07-02 09:11:15

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Expansion

*cracks knuckles, picks up guns* yessir

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