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#1 2013-04-13 00:51:37

DrNoid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 56

Missing tapes

There is supposed to be a tape for every death in your house, right?
But when I look at my tapes, the death-count jumps from 19 to 21. Where is the tape with death 20?

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#2 2013-05-04 06:24:41

DrNoid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 56

Re: Missing tapes

Once again I'm missing some tapes... Has anyone else noticed missing tapes?

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#3 2013-05-06 11:54:56

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Missing tapes

I figured out why this happens sometimes.

If someone cheats (their robbery-end is blocked), or they quit mid-robbery without finishing, then they are force-killed.  But no tape is saved in theses cases (the tape would be invalid in the case of cheating, and the tape isn't even sent to the server if they quit mid-robbery). 

Still, they died while in your house, so the death counter goes up.

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#4 2013-05-06 12:35:12

DrNoid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 56

Re: Missing tapes

Ah, indeed, that explains.
Thanks smile

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#5 2013-08-01 07:33:43

Axious
Member
Registered: 2013-08-01
Posts: 12

Re: Missing tapes

So I have discovered this missing tapes issue myself, and after reading this thread I see how it happens but this raises a problem for me. I have a top house which gets scouted a lot and one of the strategies I use to protect it (I'm sure everyone does), is watch the old tapes to see what people destroyed and where they went on their failed attempts, and then I go into my house and change or reinforce those areas. I have seen two failed robbery attempts now that I was aware of, where the robbery lasted a considerable amount of time >1-2 min, so I know someone is doing some very interesting things that I would really like to see.

But I can't! The tape is MISSING! So now even though I am a vigilant player, I can still be out done by people who do one time scouting events and log/kill themselves to work their way to my vault and hide all of their tracks.

I'm sure it is not so difficult to just send these tapes to the server and let people watch them even if they are not complete.


My iOS game Metal Masher check it out! www.MetalMasher.net

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#6 2013-08-01 07:38:29

jere
Member
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 540

Re: Missing tapes

I'm sure it is not so difficult to just send these tapes to the server and let people watch them even if they are not complete.

Don't be so sure. The game is asynchronous. Once you complete a robbery, it sends all your moves to the server.

If the robber quits TCD or it crashes or their computer crashes, nothing was ever sent to the server. There's no "incomplete tape." There's nothing for you to watch at all.


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#7 2013-08-01 07:45:31

Axious
Member
Registered: 2013-08-01
Posts: 12

Re: Missing tapes

Well if that is the case, it may be more difficult, but there are always ways around it. You can send portions of the tape in whatever intervals you want, so at least some bits can be seen. Or have the tape's steps saved on the client and submit them next log in.


My iOS game Metal Masher check it out! www.MetalMasher.net

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#8 2013-08-01 07:50:31

jere
Member
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 540

Re: Missing tapes

Or have the tape's steps saved on the client and submit them next log in.

I think this would be the best way to keep the load on the server to a minimum (which, as far as I know, is Jason's primary goal with the current architecture). However, there's a possibility that the robber never logs in again, so you still don't get a tape. After all, a likely use case them for killing the program is that they are rage quitting. Or they take such a long break from the game that the tape wouldn't do you any good when they send it (i.e. you have a new house or updated security).

Don't get me wrong. I've encountered this several times and I'd like to see the tapes. It's just a question of how much effort is going to put towards slightly improving this minor issue.

Last edited by jere (2013-08-01 07:55:04)


Golden Krone Hotel - a vampire roguelike

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#9 2013-08-01 08:46:55

Axious
Member
Registered: 2013-08-01
Posts: 12

Re: Missing tapes

I agree that the issue is somewhat minor, but I also think the fix is easy too. Having the tape saved on the client and submitted whenever possible is a solution. In the case where the robber never logs back in, or not for a very long time, you, the house owner don't even care about that robber then, because the only robber that is a threat is the one poking around your house multiple times in a row in a short period of time learning lots of information and logging out to prevent you from knowing what they learned.


My iOS game Metal Masher check it out! www.MetalMasher.net

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#10 2013-08-11 15:15:06

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Missing tapes

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, because currently, only one person in the world can have a house "checked out" for robbery at a time.  That blocks the house from being changed by the owner (or other robbers) while the robbery is happening.

This also ensures that the house is in a known state when the robbery ends and the tape comes in.  The server checks the tape to make sure that it "works" in the current house (which is guaranteed to be the same house that the robber started out in).  So, if the tape doesn't line up with the house, then the robber is cheating, and the tape is rejected.

All these assumptions change if we're saving tapes on the client and submitting them later.  The house could change before the tape is finally sent in.... it could be totally different.  What map do we save along with that tape, when the tape finally comes in?  The tape is just a list of moves, so without the map, it can't even play back.  Yeah, the client could submit the map along with the moves, but then we're breaking a huge rule:  never trust the client!  The server only currently trusts the map that it has.  Otherwise, the client could alter the map before sending in the cached tape... in which case.... you'd get a bogus tape to watch.

The point is, that when a robbery fails for whatever reason, all bets are off about it.  The house gets checked back in, and other robberies are permitted.  It's really like it never happened.

If you're worried about what people are learning when they use this "trick," remember that they get a 1-hour chill for your house every time they do it.  So, this isn't a viable scouting trick.  If you see a missing tape, realize that that person isn't coming back for a while...

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