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#1 2013-07-24 06:28:48

Hoonster
Member
Registered: 2013-07-24
Posts: 1

Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

I don't know anyway to protect my family.

I think it is just plain impossible.
All robbers could just follow any empty path with crowbars and whack the dogs and wife.

Is there anything I can do?
I tried throwing waves of dogs to protect my family but drugged meat is so cheap and stackable.

I had to commit suicide when somebody killed my wife and used brute force to break into my vault.

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#2 2013-07-24 06:38:24

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

Hoonster wrote:

I don't know anyway to protect my family.

I think it is just plain impossible.
All robbers could just follow any empty path with crowbars and whack the dogs and wife.

Is there anything I can do?
I tried throwing waves of dogs to protect my family but drugged meat is so cheap and stackable.

I had to commit suicide when somebody killed my wife and used brute force to break into my vault.

If you wish to use pit bulls effectively you have to remember 2 things:

1) you cant club a sleeping pit bull, it can only be shot.

2) pit bulls can't be clubbed unless they are right next to you.

This means less, well placed pit bulls in hallways are more effective than many pit bulls all spaced out in the open.  It also means any open space available to a robber can be abused to lure your pit bulls out and drug them safely.

If you cover both these points you can do a fairly effective job of protecting your family, short of some wealthy evil man robbing you wink.


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#3 2013-07-24 06:40:44

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

welcome to the game smile

to be a better writer, apparently you have to read a lot. i think this is a good kind of analogy to apply to this game - to be a better ..house defenderer, you have to break and enter a lot!
it isn't just copying other people's ideas, often you'll have a sudden burst of inspiration when you find yourself in a sticky situation or some such.

best family defence i have seen lately involves dogs, cats and pits, making heavy use of the new animal movement rules.

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#4 2013-07-24 08:41:40

colorfusion
Member
Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 537

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

Nothing in the game is completely protectable. With enough tools people can break through anything. The best you can do to protect your vault is to put as hard as obstacles as you can between the door and it. Same goes with family.

With the family you can't put most tiles in their way, but you don't have to prove that you can get to them. You can use patterns of pitbulls and mazes to cost the robber a fortune to get to them, you can have a play with pitbull behaviour and find ways to make it harder to club them.

Last edited by colorfusion (2013-07-24 08:42:12)

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#5 2013-07-24 11:16:15

Noshire
Member
Registered: 2013-07-23
Posts: 13

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

I do think though that 1-2 additional elements to protect the family would be nice. While pitbulls can be used in an efficient way to keep intruders away from your beloved, having some other means to defend them would add more tactical options, and lead to more elaborate designs than "long tunnel stuffed with dogs" or "cleverly placed, un-crowbarable dogs". Just some new security elements that can actually protect the passage without blocking the family's path.

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#6 2013-07-24 12:55:49

gyuri
Member
Registered: 2013-07-09
Posts: 231

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

OK, you can't always protect your family, but how about stealing other people's wives?

I imagine a 'tool' called love potion and available only if your own wife is dead. If you use it on a wife in another house and lead her safely to the door, she will become yours and even take her kids with her.

This way you can get a new wife and it wouldn't require too much new code i suppose.

What do you guys think?

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#7 2013-07-24 16:03:33

Ludicrosity
Member
From: US
Registered: 2013-06-22
Posts: 144

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

When it comes to family protection, there is really only one option: dogs. Pits and other traps work great for vault protection, but since you need a clear path for your family, they can't be used to protect them. One can concoct clever designs using them anyhow, but dollar for dollar these designs are always inferior to a simple pack of dogs. Each well placed dog costs an intruder $1000 to pass. Nothing else achieves that amount of protection per dollar.

Noshire wrote:

While pitbulls can be used in an efficient way to keep intruders away from your beloved, having some other means to defend them would add more tactical options, and lead to more elaborate designs than "long tunnel stuffed with dogs" or "cleverly placed, un-crowbarable dogs".

I think family protection is entirely feasible with the new animal movement rules in place. However, I do agree that there is a very limited degree of creativity afforded to the family protection aspect of this game as opposed to the vault protection aspect. It is possible to come up with creative family protection strategies, but they will not be effective.

gyuri wrote:

OK, you can't always protect your family, but how about stealing other people's wives?

Haha, this is a funny and also interesting idea, though it doesn't really seem to fit with the "feel" of the game to me.

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#8 2013-07-25 01:44:01

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

gyuri wrote:

OK, you can't always protect your family, but how about stealing other people's wives?

I imagine a 'tool' called love potion and available only if your own wife is dead. If you use it on a wife in another house and lead her safely to the door, she will become yours and even take her kids with her.

This way you can get a new wife and it wouldn't require too much new code i suppose.

What do you guys think?

One word.  Hilarious.

IMPLEMENT THIS IMMEDIATELY JASON AND LET US COMMENCE THE WIFE-LOVE-POTION-STEALING!!!


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#9 2013-07-25 02:21:59

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

I bet Jason would enjoy the interview questions that would produce. wink

"TCD II - Stockholm Syndrome"


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#10 2013-07-28 22:06:21

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

Yeah, I don't know if you guys saw the three-day-long twitter storm about this game on Wed, Thur, Fri of this past week....  but yeah, luring wives with love potions.... Twitter would have a collective stroke over that.  Anyway...

I'm not totally happy with the limited palette that is available for protecting the family, but I do really like how protecting them is necessarily "different" from protecting the vault.  I don't want them to just feel like another vault.  So, I'm pretty sure the rule about them not being willing to cross anything will stay.  So... maybe some other kind of pet with interesting behavior....  but I'm having trouble thinking of what.

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#11 2013-07-29 00:29:20

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yeah, I don't know if you guys saw the three-day-long twitter storm about this game on Wed, Thur, Fri of this past week....  but yeah, luring wives with love potions.... Twitter would have a collective stroke over that.  Anyway...

I'm not totally happy with the limited palette that is available for protecting the family, but I do really like how protecting them is necessarily "different" from protecting the vault.  I don't want them to just feel like another vault.  So, I'm pretty sure the rule about them not being willing to cross anything will stay.  So... maybe some other kind of pet with interesting behavior....  but I'm having trouble thinking of what.

What, a pet to protect your family that isn't a pit bull?  Hmm..  a gorilla?  What about a poodle?
What sort of behaviour are we talking about?

And what about a door that the robber and family can pass through, but not pets?  Like a sliding door that you close behind you?


edit: And I am sad for no potions.  Where will I find love now?

Last edited by dalleck (2013-07-29 00:30:35)


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#12 2013-08-09 14:20:57

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

Whoa! Yeah, actually, that kind of door would totally be possible.

It could actually be a mobile object that never moves (thus blocking other mobiles), but it wouldn't block the family (because they are not implemented as mobiles, which is what allows them to stand with mobiles).

But... before I do that, how about some more discussion...  how can people envision that being useful?  Maybe some castlefortify mock-ups would help, if you have an idea!

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#13 2013-08-09 22:59:36

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

http://castledraft.com/editor/mB7k4u

sliding door would give you the option of at least attempting to hide which way leads to your family!

i also kind of like the idea of traps suspended above tiles with a tripwire, obviously you can cut a tripwire with wire cutters.. wouldn't know what would be a good thing to suspend though. pitbull on a rope? paint can is a trusty favourite i guess! oooh, how about marbles on the floor? forces robber into the next tile ahead of them smile kind of like a wire-bridge but for movement!

me and ukuko were talking a few weeks ago about being able to spend your money equipping your wife with some stuff, like a shotgun that takes 2 or 3 'turns' to load, pump and fire at the robber. or some silly things like that tongue

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#14 2013-08-10 04:29:28

bey bey
Member
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 386

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

dalleck wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:

Yeah, I don't know if you guys saw the three-day-long twitter storm about this game on Wed, Thur, Fri of this past week....  but yeah, luring wives with love potions.... Twitter would have a collective stroke over that.  Anyway...

I'm not totally happy with the limited palette that is available for protecting the family, but I do really like how protecting them is necessarily "different" from protecting the vault.  I don't want them to just feel like another vault.  So, I'm pretty sure the rule about them not being willing to cross anything will stay.  So... maybe some other kind of pet with interesting behavior....  but I'm having trouble thinking of what.

What, a pet to protect your family that isn't a pit bull?  Hmm..  a gorilla?  What about a poodle?
What sort of behaviour are we talking about?

And what about a door that the robber and family can pass through, but not pets?  Like a sliding door that you close behind you?


edit: And I am sad for no potions.  Where will I find love now?

I think we  all know what the new animal should be - an Oddjob. He is activated like any dog and can throw his hat as far as one can throw a brick. His weakness is that he dies if his hat lands on an electric floor. If he steps onto a burglar, he will encase him in gold and you now have a lovely statue to be displayed anywhere in the house.


In fact you can be batman.
(if he robbed houses and murdered families.)
- Dalleck

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#15 2013-08-12 12:40:39

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

largestherb:

Wouldn't the same "disguise" be possible without the doors?  You can hide your family down inside a maze already.  The "sliding doors" would just keep the dogs in the maze a little bit longer.

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#16 2013-08-13 02:25:23

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

I think he is saying that you could have several different passages with sliding doors leading to them, with the thief not knowing which one leads to the safe which one to the family and which one leads to grim, grim death.

But yes, it is essentially the same as having open passages all over.  Perhaps just a tad more mystery.

Last edited by dalleck (2013-08-13 02:26:49)


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#17 2013-08-13 09:43:57

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

oh no indeed, a series of undoor'd tunnels is kind of the same. but not knowing what is behind a door adds a nice feeling.

i mean, you break into someone's house.. you're sneaking around hoping nobody is home. you open a door.. oh no, little johnny stayed home while his parents went shopping! ...i wonder if his parents knew he was looking at that website!

i dunno. i know a dog behind every door is pretty boring, but it doesn't have to be a dog. i just like the feeling of '.....should i open this door?' that i get whenever i come across a door. a mix of terror and excitement. mostly terror. warm terror. running down my leg.


ps. could you add the 'pushed' rotary button state as a placeable tile tongue          (i'd also ask for rotatable voltage triggers, but that might be a huge ask!)

Last edited by largestherb (2013-08-13 09:58:54)

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#18 2013-08-13 10:11:37

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Can I at least put a door in order to protect my family?

largestherb wrote:

oh no indeed, a series of undoor'd tunnels is kind of the same. but not knowing what is behind a door adds a nice feeling.

i mean, you break into someone's house.. you're sneaking around hoping nobody is home. you open a door.. oh no, little johnny stayed home while his parents went shopping! ...i wonder if his parents knew he was looking at that website!

i dunno. i know a dog behind every door is pretty boring, but it doesn't have to be a dog. i just like the feeling of '.....should i open this door?' that i get whenever i come across a door. a mix of terror and excitement. mostly terror. warm terror. running down my leg.


ps. could you add the 'pushed' rotary button state as a placeable tile tongue          (i'd also ask for rotatable voltage triggers, but that might be a huge ask!)

Let me just add, the nice thing I liked about sliding doors is that you close them behind you, so you are continually 'in the dark', as it were.  I think it would be lovely, and makes me feel gooey inside.


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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