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Guest23

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Matthew Frederick Waters

Matthew Frederick Waters owns a house of pure genius.  On the house list, he shows up with only his middle initial, as "Matthew F. Waters," but when you enter, it shows his full name.

To the casual observer, it looks like a 16-bit combination lock with 9-thickness walls and wall dogs.  But it's actually a combination lock plus a magic dance.  The order that you push the switches matters, and it also matters that you approach some switches from the left, some from the right, some from the top, and some from the bottom.

How do I know this?  I looked at a map of the house's start position.  Let me stress that I did not hack or otherwise modify my client in order to do this.

But once I looked at the map, I knew that it would be absolutely ridiculous for someone to guess the combo plus magic dance without cheating.  If it were just a combo, it would be 1 in 65536.  But, genius that he is, it's so much more, probably 1 in a million.

With map in hand, cracking the combo is actually a very interesting puzzle.  But without the map, it's no fun at all, just an exercise in futility.

People make combination locks for two reasons:
1) They are easy to self-test without fear of death
2) With 9-thickness walls, they essentially cannot be robbed by someone who can't see the whole map.  No combination of tools can beat them.

I think this points to flaws in the game's design.  The permadeath during self-test is certainly interesting, artistic, and powerful (and after all, Jason Rohrer is best known for art games), but I think it's encouraging house design that's not fun to try to break.

The game accomplishes its artistic goals really well.  Jason made a game where "i literally just sat at my computer staring at my dead pixel body for like 5 minutes," and I know that the essay called "How I Became a Murderous Recluse in Jason Rohrer’s The Castle Doctrine" is exactly the feeling that Jason wanted to communicate.

But in a PvP MMO, Jason may need to choose between making it artistically powerful, and making it fun.  Making a combination lock may make you a murderous recluse, but it doesn't make a fun game for anyone.

setz

Member

From: NM

Registered: 2013-04-03

Posts: 121

Website

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

Yeah, as much as I love this game, it is becoming a problem that 75% of houses are now just bit-lock combos with 9 thick walls. It's no fun, completely unoriginal and the time it would take to actually play out every combo is maddening, and not possible for most of us. Its not Jason's fault for everyone figuring out how to do this so fast; and once you get more than 5k its really hard to keep it for more than 5 minutes and bit-locks seem like the best possible way, so I kind of understand the want to make bit-lock houses. But on the other hand I am finding myself playing the game less and less each day because of the repetitive bit-lock grind that it has become.

Omnipotent

Member

From: California

Registered: 2013-04-02

Posts: 23

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

Yeah, as much as I love this game, it is becoming a problem that 75% of houses are now just bit-lock combos with 9 thick walls. It's no fun, completely unoriginal and the time it would take to actually play out every combo is maddening, and not possible for most of us. Its not Jason's fault for everyone figuring out how to do this so fast; and once you get more than 5k its really hard to keep it for more than 5 minutes and bit-locks seem like the best possible way, so I kind of understand the want to make bit-lock houses. But on the other hand I am finding myself playing the game less and less each day because of the repetitive bit-lock grind that it has become.

Both these posts have communicated pretty well how a lot of us feel I think. You get any money at all and if you're not behind a bit-lock or something seriously clever then you get it all nabbed away pretty fast. The whole [   0       0   ] thing just screams ROB ME!

Madeus

Member

From: Bristol, UK

Registered: 2013-04-06

Posts: 8

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

How do I know this?  I looked at a map of the house's start position.  Let me stress that I did not hack or otherwise modify my client in order to do this.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get a map of the house's start position?

ThibG

Member

Registered: 2013-04-05

Posts: 3

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

Hum, that sounds like my house (but I'm probably not the only one to have such a house)... Apparently 16-bit combo lock, but in reality, 24-bits + a really precise way of pushing the buttons...
How did you get the map? (someone robbed me, but I think not only they had the initial map, but they had the map at each of their steps, judging by their early suicides when they realized they messed up)
I'm aware such houses may be kind of boring... I'll either hope the map thing makes it more interesting, or just scratch it in the near future, and play in a different way.

Last edited by ThibG (2013-04-06 10:12:18)

Guest23

Guest

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

ThibG, probably the best way to identify if you are Matthew Frederick Waters is by your paintings.  Do you have Ko by Frank Lantz, Momento Mori by Nova Jiang, The Watermelon by Derek Yu, and Eiffel at Dawn by Olivier Lejade?

Watch your recent tapes, I just walked to your safe, but didn't rob you, then turned back and electrocuted myself.  I did this by only looking at the initial map and figuring it out.

It's really a very interesting puzzle if you see the initial map, but I *guarantee* you that no one will ever figure it out without the initial map.  That's probably why Jason is considering selling the initial maps in version 6.

As for how I got the map, I'm not going to answer that, because answering that will lead to rampant cheating.  Maybe if Jason wants to know, I'll email him privately, but I bet he already has a good idea.

Madeus

Member

From: Bristol, UK

Registered: 2013-04-06

Posts: 8

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

As for how I got the map, I'm not going to answer that, because answering that will lead to rampant cheating.  Maybe if Jason wants to know, I'll email him privately, but I bet he already has a good idea.

Ahh, I've figured out how to look at the initial map too!  I won't use my new found powers for evil though.

Madeus

Member

From: Bristol, UK

Registered: 2013-04-06

Posts: 8

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

Matthew Frederick Waters owns a house of pure genius.

Now I've seen the map I would tend to agree, but with a map it's pretty easy to solve (I thought I'd try it and managed it on my second attempt - but didn't steal anything of course).  This suggests providing maps are going to make it too easy (assuming they can be afforded).

ThibG

Member

Registered: 2013-04-05

Posts: 3

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

ThibG, probably the best way to identify if you are Matthew Frederick Waters is by your paintings.  Do you have Ko by Frank Lantz, Momento Mori by Nova Jiang, The Watermelon by Derek Yu, and Eiffel at Dawn by Olivier Lejade?

This is indeed me.

Watch your recent tapes, I just walked to your safe, but didn't rob you, then turned back and electrocuted myself.  I did this by only looking at the initial map and figuring it out.

Ok, I've seen a bunch of thoses

It's really a very interesting puzzle if you see the initial map, but I *guarantee* you that no one will ever figure it out without the initial map.  That's probably why Jason is considering selling the initial maps in version 6.

Glad to see you liked it! Come on, they only have to have an idea how the whole thing works, and then, they'll have to find the correct code out of ~16 millions.

As for how I got the map, I'm not going to answer that, because answering that will lead to rampant cheating.  Maybe if Jason wants to know, I'll email him privately, but I bet he already has a good idea.

Well, I have a few ideas too, but I would still consider that cheating

Now I've seen the map I would tend to agree, but with a map it's pretty easy to solve (I thought I'd try it and managed it on my second attempt - but didn't steal anything of course).  This suggests providing maps are going to make it too easy (assuming they can be afforded).

Still your second attempt... well, only your second attempt... it's a bit easy, indeed, but that's probably my fault for not making it confusing enough. It would probably mean that pure combo-lock houses like mine would not be the most effective ones in the long term, but is it really a bad thing?

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2013-04-01

Posts: 1,235

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

I'm pretty sure that buyable maps in v6 will fix this.

As Guest23 pointed out, the house was still fun/cool to study even with the map.  Puzzles (real puzzles) are still possible even with a map of the puzzle.

The real question is whether buyable maps will be meaningless if everyone is just sniffing the protocol to see the maps for free anyway.  Of course, most people aren't sniffing the protocol now... they're just looking at all the debug info that the game spews out.  But even if I turn that off, it will be a matter of time before some mod is widely available to sniff the protocol.

Of course, "bought map" will be attached to the security tape.  So, if you get through some really hard house without buying a map, you could still be caught at cheating.

tentacle

Member

Registered: 2013-04-07

Posts: 2

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

Done right, the pattern-based or 'magic dance' approach is effectively un-brute-forceable. I love the simplicity of the game, but at the same time, I struggle to think how to address this dichotomy of rich unbreakable houses vs brute forcers, without giving up on the pure simplicity.

vraeden

Member

Registered: 2013-04-05

Posts: 23

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

I'm pretty sure that buyable maps in v6 will fix this.

As Guest23 pointed out, the house was still fun/cool to study even with the map.  Puzzles (real puzzles) are still possible even with a map of the puzzle.

The real question is whether buyable maps will be meaningless if everyone is just sniffing the protocol to see the maps for free anyway.  Of course, most people aren't sniffing the protocol now... they're just looking at all the debug info that the game spews out.  But even if I turn that off, it will be a matter of time before some mod is widely available to sniff the protocol.

Of course, "bought map" will be attached to the security tape.  So, if you get through some really hard house without buying a map, you could still be caught at cheating.

But people, friends, can share info without all buying the map..so that would not be foolproof cheat detection.  And I would hesitate to call someone a cheater without knowing how many times that person has attempted.

robinhood

Member

Registered: 2013-05-05

Posts: 4

Re: Matthew Frederick Waters

http://castlefortify.com/?id=94ba0f3
Not entirely accurate.

Last edited by robinhood (2013-05-05 06:33:50)