The Castle Doctrine Forums

JoeBlow

Member

Registered: 2014-01-27

Posts: 39

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

I completely get what you're saying.  But having to start over every single time I walk away for 6 hours just isn't fun.  I spent almost that long building the house being painstakingly careful with everything.  I'm not saying to remove tool rewards.  I am saying reduce them to increase the time you actually get to have a house.  I spent 5 hours building it and never got to play the game while it was still functional.

May I ask what you mean by "never got to play the game?"  If you were building a house and came back later to find out it had been robbed, then it sounds like to me that the game is functioning exactly as intended.  The game is designed to provoke an emotional reaction out of you when your work is destroyed by someone else.  It does depend on your goals when playing games in general and your specific goals playing this game.  For me, I have lost everything multiple times and expect to die again in the future and I am very much enjoying the experience.

But the odds tell me that when i'll go to bed it's over.

Exactly.  There are posts where people say it would be better if they felt like their house could last even a single night.  The game is designed AGAINST having that feeling of security.  My previous post asked some rhetorical questions to illustrate the idea that it's not supposed to feel satisfying when someone destroys your house and you lose everything.  It might be frustrating that you lose it after one night.  It might be equally or more frustrating to lose it after two days or whatever period of time it happens to be.  I feel that it works better when the danger is more imminent and would be against making changes for the specific reason to make houses survive "easier" or longer.

I feel like I am having a better time with the game if I have to use it and improve the design and build on its existing strengths and reduce the weaknesses.  Going to a job or bed shouldn't basically negate all that.  I am TOTALLY for the vulnerable house AND the Permadeath AND the loss of everything when it happens.  What I NOT for is having it happen every single time I open the game.  Reducing the tool reward would make it take a lot longer to become the target for the brute force attack.  And it would give you longer to work on an existing design to improve to see how long you can hold the brute forcers at bay.  THAT'S what I see as an enjoyable experience with Castle Doctrine.  But just rote generation of a $2000 design 87 times in the space of a week is not (numbers obviously exaggerated).

ventuswings

Member

Registered: 2014-01-23

Posts: 55

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

@ jw2pfd

But slowing down value growth rate will not cause your house to be protected - your house is always targeted and liable to destruction; it just change what kind of robber decides to visit your house. While I understand the suspense part of the community, it is quite unsatisfying as home builder to see robber brute force through the house with amount of tools the house had not yet been prepared for, just because you decided to go to sleep and couldn't update it in time.

There is imminent danger, but if leaving your home unattended for more than six hours is guaranteed ruination, you risk desensitization and apathy. After all, doing stuff to defend against the imminent danger is one of the major point of the game! All the discussion about brute forcing etc. is there because we as community desire proper ratio of security vs danger.

@ jere
I am cautious about how bounty cap would work out. How would such cap handle the tools? Donate them also when reaching the cap? But there is certain number of tools I might desire over others. Also, I am afraid putting direct financial cap on the houses would skew the amount of in-game money that flows into the game compared to the money being lost per death.

Last edited by ventuswings (2014-02-04 20:13:52)

JoeBlow

Member

Registered: 2014-01-27

Posts: 39

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

The tool reward reduction was just the first post I saw on the topic.  If there are better ways to mitigate it, then great.  But as it stands I feel the game is broken if I can't go away for a few hours without having to mindlessly rebuild from nothing yet again.

jw2pfd

Member

Registered: 2014-02-03

Posts: 30

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

Has anyone read my suggestion about caps?
It's not like it gives you any unfair advantage; all it does is allow you to have a healthier relationship with TCD and play at your own pace. Also, this would somewhat mitigate tool dumping through multiple accounts.

The idea of caps to me seems like it's yet another way to give a feeling of security when the game is an exercise in making you worry about your house while you are away from the game.  The idea is that you can't protect your house while you are away.  This is frustrating as you can't be at your computer always and there are people who are able to stayed logged in and do more than you.  This is true for a lot of games actually.

I am okay with the idea of playing more than someone else might make your house more secure because it is still far from guaranteed.  I don't like the idea of adding features that give someone a simple option to select to mitigate how often their house is targeted and making it a less desirable target of a robbery.

I get that there is room to balance house value growth, tool prices, and tool resale value.  Each of these values also overlap with your potential robbing strength.  There is room for improvement surely and hopefully a discussion like this will bring forth the community's opinion as well as many suggestions to discuss.  I do mainly disagree with sentiment that your house is supposed to last the night or however long you have to be away.  This doesn't mean that there aren't potential improvements to make the game experience better.

@ventuswings: I agree that house value growth is probably tied to the quality of robber that targets your house.  The robber will more likely have a high potential robbing strength.  Robbing strength is directly linked to house value as well.  That is why changing house value growth would require careful and delicate balance.  I agree that the game benefits from a good ratio of danger to security.  However, each player is going to view what that ratio should be differently.

@JoeBlow: As ventuswings mentioned, there should be a decent security versus danger ratio.  Personally, I would feel that the game is "broken" if I could walk away more than a single night and not have had my house targeted by a serious threat.

JoeBlow

Member

Registered: 2014-01-27

Posts: 39

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

@JoeBlow: As ventuswings mentioned, there should be a decent security versus danger ratio.  Personally, I would feel that the game is "broken" if I could walk away more than a single night and not have had my house targeted by a serious threat.

So you actually enjoy starting over every time you log back on?  I cannot understand that.  There is too much danger and not enough security.  A balance would allow you to be able to keep the house for a while and the better you are at making the security, the better your reward of seeing it live another day.  I'll point you at this thread as a perfect example.  The enjoyment the owner had was seeing how many people used how many ways to finally get at the vault.  That house lasted a couple of days, and it was to quote "...a wild ride, and I had a blast".  That is what is great about the game - seeing how well you build against the onslaught.  But if no matter what you do, you fail the first time you log off, it just gets tedious rebuilding.

jw2pfd

Member

Registered: 2014-02-03

Posts: 30

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

A balance would allow you to be able to keep the house for a while and the better you are at making the security, the better your reward of seeing it live another day.  I'll point you at this thread as a perfect example

Isn't that thread an example of someone that kept the house for awhile and could have much longer is they chose to keep the house value down?  My most recent house lasted three days and I actually lost everything due to dying as opposed to being robbed.  People that spend time and make decent houses are already regularly surviving many days.  What exactly needs to be changed? Why are some surviving the night and some not?  Is it house security skill? How often they are able to log on?

There should be a certain skill level threshold that is required to survive.  I have had many of my houses robbed and I have learned from it each time.  I have died in others' houses and learned from it each time.  I feel like the game experience should not be designed to have a user log on for the very first time and press some sort of button to increase their house survivability.  You will die.  You will get robbed.  You may or may not learn from your mistakes.

I am enjoying the game enough that I am taking to these forums to be a part of these discussions while I eagerly awaiting potential robbers because I am currently in a rebuilding period since I died earlier.  Will my house last the night?  No idea.  I've achieved it before.  Hopefully, I will achieve it again.

JoeBlow

Member

Registered: 2014-01-27

Posts: 39

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

I never ever said that the game should "have a user log on for the very first time and press some sort of button to increase their house survivability".  I said that not being able to keep a well designed house longer than 6 hours (even one that has had $15,000 of investment into it) is tedious and not fun and I think the balance is skewed.

jw2pfd

Member

Registered: 2014-02-03

Posts: 30

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

I never ever said that the game should "have a user log on for the very first time and press some sort of button to increase their house survivability".  I said that not being able to keep a well designed house longer than 6 hours (even one that has had $15,000 of investment into it) is tedious and not fun and I think the balance is skewed.

I understand what you're saying.  Everyone has different expectations of balance and fun.  We obviously don't agree on the same things which is more than fine.  As far as fun goes, I have a story to share.

My personal experience is that I have spent six or more hours during a day and my house has survived the night on multiple occasions.  Earlier today, I had a three-day old house, $40k list value, two paintings, and plenty of money into it I am sure.  I decided to start robbing because I have been slow to take many risks.  I got deep inside a guy's house and broke through a wall to find fifteen pit bulls.  No worries though! I came prepared with tools as I have used the same building technique in my own house.  I killed a few and put most of them asleep.  I was now behind a wall of a combo lock and if I could look at the switches, then I hopefully could figure out the combination... then I stepped on a sleeping pit bull.  Yup, I died in the most amazingly stupid way imaginable and it was completely my fault.

A lot of people would hear that story and not call it fun; even though I put myself in a position where I had to start over, I had a whole lot of fun before, during, and after.  I can't say I was exactly thrilled about dying, but I expected it to some degree because I knew I was taking a risk.

Anyway, there WILL be many houses that survive tonight.  The comments that say logging off and back on later is a "guarantee" that the house is gone is not accurate at all.  Even if it's a common or prevalent experience, it's far from guaranteed.

super_maçon

Member

Registered: 2014-02-02

Posts: 28

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

Anyway, there WILL be many houses that survive tonight.  The comments that say logging off and back on later is a "guarantee" that the house is gone is not accurate at all.  Even if it's a common or prevalent experience, it's far from guaranteed.

I see this this game a lot like poker, even shi fu mi in a way. It's a matter of odds, gamble and mind game.
If the odds are super high i will consider that as a guarantee, i won't gamble on it, never.

Well, as for tonight my house did survive ( well at least nobody manage to kill the family and so i've got 400 for some repair, which is cool, i did suffer some damage but i maybe get back ).

If i read the history correctly with the tapes, someone did break my vault for 5940 $, meaning the house value was double right ?
So my question is how do you make a house with 2000$ that can have a chance of surviving a 10 000/11 000 $ value ?

I am okay with the idea of playing more than someone else might make your house more secure

Honestly i don't know how you can get to the mid/top houses if you have a job without a PC connected.

I wish that player would be promote for having cleaver design and tactics instead of time available.
In a way it's sad that this particular MMO didn't avoid a kind of farming.

I'll still play it for sure, i love that game it's so unique and fresh.
But i feel kind of disappointing to had some progress, learnt a lot and being at a point were if i want to get further it's time i need.

Maybe i'm wrong, i'll try some other design and all... Maybe the meta will change people will stop been killed so easily etc... It's hard to say. Time will tell.

Last edited by super_maçon (2014-02-05 04:28:13)

GoogleFrog

Member

Registered: 2013-11-30

Posts: 36

Re: 50 dollar bounty?

I like the $100 bounty because it is a very round number.