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#1 2014-02-06 08:23:24

jcchampion
Member
Registered: 2014-02-02
Posts: 5

This seriously needs to be changed...

There's absolutely no reason why you should die when testing out your own house. This is ludicrous. The tools for testing are given to us, so that we don't have to die when testing out our own house. Yes, I get it that you need to be able to complete your own house without dying, but can't we have a testing mode?

Please either remove this feature all together, or add a testing mode where if u complete it, it doesn't count, but if you die it doesn't either that way we can test our houses properly without wasting a bunch of time. 2 times now I've made awesome super expensive 15k+ houses that no one had the chance to steal from because why? Some stupidity that killed me. A minor thing here or there that even with testing would be very hard to tell. This is not fun for me whose wasting a lot of time, nor is it fun for the depraved players who could have died in my house smile

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#2 2014-02-06 08:31:04

Turnout8
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2014-01-26
Posts: 18

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

This is actually a feature that is already implemented! You can test your house 100% safely by replacing electric floors with Conducting Indicator Lights, trapdoors and powered doors with Non-Conducting Indicator lights, and pitbulls with chihuahuas.

Then, once you safely reach your safe, backtrack to the exit (don't actually touch your safe) so that you don't get charged for the lights, and replace them with the deadly traps. But that way you won't die because you messed up wiring somewhere.

Last edited by Turnout8 (2014-02-06 08:31:47)

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#3 2014-02-06 08:36:49

jcchampion
Member
Registered: 2014-02-02
Posts: 5

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

Turnout8 wrote:

This is actually a feature that is already implemented! You can test your house 100% safely by replacing electric floors with Conducting Indicator Lights, trapdoors and powered doors with Non-Conducting Indicator lights, and pitbulls with chihuahuas.

Then, once you safely reach your safe, backtrack to the exit (don't actually touch your safe) so that you don't get charged for the lights, and replace them with the deadly traps. But that way you won't die because you messed up wiring somewhere.


I totally understand what your saying, and I have done this. But still! During the minor little one or two changes when you put everything back to normal, especially when you have a 25k house, things start to blow up and kill you and it feels like shit. If there could be a "Run in Safe Mode" button, that would alleviate the whole switching process and simply allow you to test your dungeon in its true state. To actually save your dungeon, you'll need to run in in normal mode of course, but at least this way you'll know 100% that it's good.  Also, what if you make a mistake? Why should you die? I'm still not fully grasping this idea. I think its silly and all it serves to do is punish the person who worked super hard to build their dungeon... Maybe we should have 2 tries to complete it?

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#4 2014-02-06 08:43:42

TheRealCheese
Member
Registered: 2014-01-25
Posts: 349

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

You have to understand though, this is not a side-effect or a bug or anything... it's a game feature.

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#5 2014-02-06 08:50:25

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

Remember, you are going to permadeath OTHER players, and cause them to lose everything, with the traps you are building.

Would it be fair for you to be immune from the same fate yourself?

Perhaps what you are building is simply too dangerous and too deadly.

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#6 2014-02-06 08:54:18

Turnout8
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2014-01-26
Posts: 18

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

Jason explains some of his reasons for why you can die while self-testing here:

http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … 5751#p5751

Basically, house security is dangerous, and if it can kill robbers it should be able to kill you too! As for "the minor little one or two changes when you put everything back to normal," I would recommend rerunning your safe-indicator-light test even after those minor changes.

EDIT: Ninja-ed by Jason himself! There you have it.

Last edited by Turnout8 (2014-02-06 08:54:59)

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#7 2014-02-06 09:58:14

ladida
Member
Registered: 2014-02-01
Posts: 22

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

In complex houses, I write down every step of each trap and test it at least twice with the (non-)conducting lights. This is, of course, not completely safe, but much safer than the fast way. Everytime I test it with real traps before the final release, Im going to have a heart attack, but its a great feeling when finally reaching the vault. Having fun requires danger.

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#8 2014-02-06 13:38:48

DethBringa
Member
Registered: 2014-01-16
Posts: 160

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

I test with safe parts too. each death trap has a safe version:
Pitbull - chihuahua
Electric floor - conducting light
Powered door/Powered trapdoor - non conducting light

Don't touch the vault when testing, that way after you get to it you can backtrack to the start again and replace your safe items for deadly ones without the extra cost. The refund still applies until after a successful self-test.


If I vanish it's not due to a burglar shooting me as well as my wife while making his way to the vault....
I'm just a burst player.
tongue

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#9 2014-02-06 14:41:10

sebastian
Member
Registered: 2014-01-31
Posts: 68

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

I suggested in the Steam forums that you should be able to select if you want to commit to a house or not when you reach the Vault during self-test.
Eg:

Reach exit = You go back to edit mode without being billed.
Reach vault = "Do you want to commit to this house? [Yes] [No]"
[Yes] = Go to house list - you are billed for the materials.
[No] = You go back to edit mode without being billed.

Jason said it was a good idea.

I got this idea so you don't actually have to remove all commit gates to the exit, you just have to "un-danger" the trap you are currently working with, then you can push to the safe regardless of trap is in working condition or not. And fix it without being double-billed for the materials.

Last edited by sebastian (2014-02-06 14:41:51)

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#10 2014-02-07 01:46:16

LiteS
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 167

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

The only problem I see with the conducting and nonconducting lights is they don't stop live animals, and animals behave differently around their dead comrades, so not all traps can be tested this way.

A quick "untestable" example is multiple instances of switch, electric floor, powered trapdoor commitment gate, since once live the dog will not survive this.

This could be sort of fixed by locking animals onto lit lights, although the behavior of nearby animals would also have to be modified to provide 100% accuracy. On second thought, that change could allow for a few new trap combinations if implemented.

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#11 2014-02-07 04:46:01

arakira
Member
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 176

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

LiteS wrote:

The only problem I see with the conducting and nonconducting lights is they don't stop live animals, and animals behave differently around their dead comrades, so not all traps can be tested this way.

In these cases, what I do is: I set the deadly traps for the pets (I do not replace them with lights), and I modify my house to add an exit corridor returning to the entrance (for example just after that trap, or near the vault). Then I try it, and if I realize it doesn't work or I'm stuck, I still have a safe way around to the exit.

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#12 2014-02-07 15:16:24

DethBringa
Member
Registered: 2014-01-16
Posts: 160

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

sebastian wrote:

I suggested in the Steam forums that you should be able to select if you want to commit to a house or not when you reach the Vault during self-test.
Eg:

Reach exit = You go back to edit mode without being billed.
Reach vault = "Do you want to commit to this house? [Yes] [No]"
[Yes] = Go to house list - you are billed for the materials.
[No] = You go back to edit mode without being billed.

Jason said it was a good idea.

I got this idea so you don't actually have to remove all commit gates to the exit, you just have to "un-danger" the trap you are currently working with, then you can push to the safe regardless of trap is in working condition or not. And fix it without being double-billed for the materials.

THAT IS AWESOME!!! I would love to see this added to the game.

arakira wrote:

In these cases, what I do is: I set the deadly traps for the pets (I do not replace them with lights), and I modify my house to add an exit corridor returning to the entrance (for example just after that trap, or near the vault). Then I try it, and if I realize it doesn't work or I'm stuck, I still have a safe way around to the exit.

I do this too.


If I vanish it's not due to a burglar shooting me as well as my wife while making his way to the vault....
I'm just a burst player.
tongue

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#13 2014-02-07 23:52:04

LiteS
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 167

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

arakira wrote:
LiteS wrote:

The only problem I see with the conducting and nonconducting lights is they don't stop live animals, and animals behave differently around their dead comrades, so not all traps can be tested this way.

In these cases, what I do is: I set the deadly traps for the pets (I do not replace them with lights), and I modify my house to add an exit corridor returning to the entrance (for example just after that trap, or near the vault). Then I try it, and if I realize it doesn't work or I'm stuck, I still have a safe way around to the exit.

That's a great idea until if/when Jason implements the "don't commit to house" button. Either would have saved me a chunk of change on my last house edit, since once I was committed to my vault I saw that I forgot to replace a few lights with traps.

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#14 2014-02-08 00:20:09

Amatiel
Member
From: Western Australia
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 246

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

I personally have no problem with the current system, i have been tempered with the fires of failure (losing a 30K house like 4 times now due to dying to my own trap) and now i dont make silly mistakes anymore. Although not everyone can handle that kind of repeated, brutal, soul destroying failure.

I suppose the argument is that to attract more players, i suspect that the game needs to be a little more forgiving. If u read all the reviews for this game, especially the critics who seem really, really... REALLY stupid to me except for a few, and none of them try competitive/smart game play strategies. They seem used to easy mode games that stroke their fragile little egos. They all moan endlessly about it's "extremely unforgiving nature".

Perhaps a balance needs to be struck? Keep the permadeath ofc, but the chances of dying in your own house could be toned down a bit maybe.

Also... i REALLY dislike this industry's critics after reading their reviews for this game, in case you hadnt noticed smile


Current Name: Darryl Gary Breeden

Died to self test yet again..... FFS..... ill be back

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#15 2014-02-11 15:37:06

Vocko1993
Member
From: Croatia
Registered: 2014-02-11
Posts: 18

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

jasonrohrer wrote:

Remember, you are going to permadeath OTHER players, and cause them to lose everything, with the traps you are building.

Would it be fair for you to be immune from the same fate yourself?

Perhaps what you are building is simply too dangerous and too deadly.


Seriously ?


Too deadly ??? What about those rich f**ks those houses arent to deadly ??

This game needs some sort of testing your own house without beeing able to die .


(sorry my english is not my mother language )

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#16 2014-02-11 15:42:46

JoeBlow
Member
Registered: 2014-01-27
Posts: 39

Re: This seriously needs to be changed...

There is a way to test it without dying.  Use the Safe Move option that is sitting right above the Suicide button.  Any move you make shows the direction you told it to go and requires you to confirm that you REALLY want to go there.  I was toying with clock traps for a while and died while testing because I accidentally pressed the move key twice and ended up trapped in a closet with a closed power door.  After that, I started using the Safe Move.

Last edited by JoeBlow (2014-02-11 15:43:50)

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