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#1 Re: Main Forum » Was i cheated? » 2014-02-01 10:02:40

If he was cheating, he wouldn't have brought $1200 worth of tools. He had something like a 1 in 3 chance of finding your vault. Here's why:

@ doorway. Trap vs hallway. Hallway probably goes to wife behind pitbulls. Proceed across trap.
Take first door.
Take rightmost door.
Find Safe.

#2 Re: Main Forum » Why Doesn't Reaching An Empty Vault End Your Robbery? » 2014-01-31 22:05:25

Anytime you see broken traps, dead dogs, etc, you should be extra cautious. It means someone killed a family member or reached the vault.

#3 Re: Main Forum » HELP: Rethinking the tool dropping stuff » 2014-01-31 21:48:51

Have you thought about tools having an intrinsic "Noise Level" . This noise level would affect how long before the cops came. Also actions like, say, shooting the wife, could significantly decrease your time limit.

Or similarly, the tools could have a cumulative "evidence" or "heat" level that sticks with the robber after the robbery. Certain tools you use could count as evidence against you, and your future robberies would have shorter and shorter time limits, because the cops or neighborhood watch have been keeping a closer eye on you. "That looks like Bob's ladder." or "Didn't Jim buy 20 crowbars the other day," or "I think I saw Bill buying a metric ton of C4 the other day"

Possibly the "Noise" and "Heat" levels could both be used, so the loud robbers that go through a house like a tank are "punished" and the stealthy cat-burglars who TACTICALLY use their tools are rewarded. The heat level would decrease over real time(minutes, hours, idk), or perhaps by performing certain tasks, like robbing a house with no tools. Heat would be erased completely on death.

Also, for houses that still have a wife, if you shoot the wife, or rob the vault, maybe give that house chills so that the person can't immediately come back to finish the job? That way the robber has to think about whether he will use his tools (and time!) looking for the safe or the wife. If he's quick and skillful, he'll be able to accomplish both.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Bruteforcing too easy, a proposal » 2014-01-31 20:55:57

Anyway, I'm just throwing ideas out there. There should be SOME limit to how many tools you can use in a house.I'm not saying 8, I'm not even saying 100, but there should be more than a monetary consequence for using tools. It would reward the stealthy cat burglars and limit how often you could do a massive, violent, and destructive heist.

#5 Re: Main Forum » Bruteforcing too easy, a proposal » 2014-01-31 20:42:23

arieltonglet wrote:

Yeah, a 'heat' on the player could be nice... but would heat + chills be a little too much?

A heat system was suggested in another thread, but a heat to the house, which I don't think is a good idea.

My idea of "heat" would be more like a wanted level in something like assassin's creed or GTA. It sticks to the player, not the house. This would NOT be carried through death, like chills is.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Bruteforcing too easy, a proposal » 2014-01-31 20:31:51

arieltonglet wrote:
ChartaBona wrote:

I had an idea, what if every time you used a tool, it affected how long before sirens? Someone firing 10+ gunshots would alert the neighbors I think. This could also prevent people from just trashing the rest of your house once they find your safe.

This is something!.. maybe only with "noisy" tools, like when you are crashing a wall or killing a pet/family member, but not when you are cutting wires

ChartaBona wrote:

Or what if an owner got to KEEP any ladders used to successful rob him. Something to stop people from just laddering all your pits for the heck of it.

I think this only makes sense with some items, like the ladder... or maybe only with the ladder at all.. But, if you think like that, carrying several wire cutters and trowing them away at each use doesn't makes sense too..

The more I think about the ladder thing, the more I realize how it might disrupt the game in its current state. Essentially you'll never be broke ($0) if someone robbed you using ladders.

Just the whole part where a person systematically destroys your house seems a little too mean spirited, even for this game.

Maybe using/bringing too many tools could put "heat" on you, such that for a certain period of real time, you'd have your siren timer temporarily reduced for ANY house you tried to rob afterward as well. Maybe your tools have partial prints on them, or one of your neighbors saw you driving off with a pickup full of ladders, crowbars, guns, etc. It would also make the BIG heist have more riding on it, since if it failed, you couldn't go back for a while, not because of CHILLS, but because of HEAT. You could TRY, but you wouldn't have enough time to perform the robbery by smashing through it all.

#7 Re: Main Forum » Bruteforcing too easy, a proposal » 2014-01-31 20:08:52

I had an idea, what if every time you used a tool, it affected how long before sirens? They could have a loudness rating or something. Some tools might not have a loudness rating, whereas others would. Meat < brick < club < gun. I think someone firing 10+ gunshots would alert the neighbors irl. You kill the wife with a handgun, you get your timer shortened significantly. (gunshots, screams) This system would reward the quick robbers, deft robbers, and punish the people that just try to plow through everything like a tank.

This could also prevent people from just trashing the rest of your house once they find your safe.

Or what if an owner got to KEEP any ladders used to successful rob him. Something to stop people from just laddering all your pits for the heck of it.

#8 Re: Main Forum » New tricks, just like the dog door » 2014-01-31 19:54:05

The moral of the story is:  If you see something that can kill you, and then lose track of it, don't open any doors they could be behind. The family can't have any structures blocking their way, so there will ALWAYS be a hallway leading to them.

#9 Re: Main Forum » Meta-Game and Common Trap Mechanics » 2014-01-31 19:41:56

jere wrote:

I wonder if the wired wall gives it away though.

Here's a way that it seems like you have a valid reason to use the wired wall that isn't related to the chihuahua:

I guess I'm assuming the robber is clever, but not clever enough.....

edit: Not sure about the 2nd wall. If you used the camera shifting correctly, you could loop the wired wall around, so they didn't see the connection.

Your version looks too scary imo. It's the harmless looking things that rack up tons of kills.

#10 Re: Main Forum » Preventing Griefers » 2014-01-31 08:00:19

largestherb wrote:

i was systematically destroying every house i could last night, until my bag mysteriously emptied itself.

my goal was definitely to rid the game of a lot of money. i was waiting a little bit for the 1.2mil house to appear but it never did sad i was going to just spend a bit of it and then literally dump the rest of it in the street (or paintings!) because FOR SURE that much money in the game makes it very easy for.. well, for someone to go around systematically destroying every house!

it is easy to forget that a $75,000 more often than not (as i found out last night) has $50,000 of that money in tools. that is $100,000 worth of tools instantly in my possession. so while it might look like someone has spent a ridiculous amount of money to come hit you up, they could have very easily just lucked into them smile

So it was YOU.

#11 Re: Main Forum » Game balance sugestions- please salvage my remaining nerves and sleep » 2014-01-31 07:59:08

radynom wrote:
ChartaBona wrote:

Also, you are never at risk of dying when you are being robbed.

That's not true.  If you are robbed and your wife killed, you end up with nothing.  Without tools, you are unlikely to be able to rob anyone, and no one will rob you since you have no money.  Most of the time you might as well suicide to get a fresh $2000.

I sank a lot of money into my house. After I got robbed, I went and found some easy targets and got a grand or 2 in a matter of minutes. I died during a self-test because I didn't take into account that one of my powered doors had been crow-barred.

#12 Re: Main Forum » Game balance sugestions- please salvage my remaining nerves and sleep » 2014-01-30 21:59:10

Keep in mind that anything the robber brings to a house is lost, whether he finds the vault or leaves. If he brings one too few, *waah waah.* If he brings way too many tools, the robbery may have only made him a tiny bit of money. Also, you are never at risk of dying when you are being robbed. The robber is the on at risk of losing EVERYTHING. Even if you lose all your money, you can rebuild your broken house. You just have to start back at the bottom or pick off the $2k and under houses for potentially free money.

The upshot is no one important is going to try to rob you when you a huge fortress but pennies to your name. Provided your original setup was decent. A couple clever commit traps will keep the rabble out.

This is coming from someone who lost $100K worth of stuff today to a robber who brought in $50-60k worth of tools. Unfortunately I died during a self test by not taking into account a broken power door.

#13 Re: Main Forum » Meta-Game and Common Trap Mechanics » 2014-01-30 21:42:35

jere wrote:

Man... not having followed Game of Thrones REALLY put me out the loop.

All you have to know is that Tywin Lannister is a cold calculated man who will destroy you, your house, and your extended family if you cross him.

#14 Re: Main Forum » Meta-Game and Common Trap Mechanics » 2014-01-30 16:56:39

Well, Jere. Tywin lannister hit me. John David Borgis came in packing. He proceeded to ladder all my pits, kill all the dogs he saw, and all around just destroyed everything.
He had:

20 clubs
41 saws
50 water
30 drugged meat
12 guns
14 ladders
4 crowbars

Robbed me for $65k.

#15 Re: Main Forum » Game balance sugestions- please salvage my remaining nerves and sleep » 2014-01-30 12:52:17

This is a Roguelike. Death/ being robbed is an inevitability. You will learn from your mistakes and develop more cunning traps as time goes on. When you do eventually get robbed , I'd study the tape carefully so that you're next house doesn't have said weaknesses. You may also learn some burglary techniques from the fella.

#16 Re: Main Forum » My castle just got robbed by a bot » 2014-01-30 12:36:21

Part of the reason for the self-test is because the game can't intrinsically determine if you're design is fair. If the game can't even figure out your maze, how would a bot?

#17 Re: Main Forum » What is your starting $2000 backpack for robbing Houses? » 2014-01-30 11:46:40

I've found that (seemingly) elaborate chihuahua/cat traps involving magic dances can be thwarted with enough bricks, however most people just use tons of pitbulls.

Generally it's something like this:

1 saw
5 meat
4 water
3 bricks
1 club - Always good to have one for an unguarded wife.

On the Defense side of things, my current house is (essentially) 2k-proof. It makes use of a couple trapdoors and tons of concrete walls, because no one buys ladders and C4 when they only have $2k. People using saws just end up trapping themselves.

#18 Re: Main Forum » Meta-Game and Common Trap Mechanics » 2014-01-30 10:58:37

My version of the "Doggie-Door Double Commit Gate" kills about 75% of robbers it seems. While tweaking the location of the middle power source, I inadvertently developed a sinister trap for the more careful players (who didn't activate the dogs) trying to get out of Dodge. They cut a wired wall that deactivates the commit floor trap, and there's a SLIGHT diagonal sliver of a pitbull in view. When they reach the middle electrified floor tile, the pitbull hits the other switch that re-electrifies the floor.

#19 Re: Main Forum » Meta-Game and Common Trap Mechanics » 2014-01-29 22:58:08

Did you cross Tywin Lannister or something, Jere?

*Rains of Castamere*

Thanks for the tips guys. I only started a few days ago, but today I went from nothing to 50k and tons of tools. I'm trying to spend my money so I'm lower on the list, But I'm not advanced enough to know how to pull off a more complicated trap.

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