Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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I could write a lot but Cylence seems to hit the nail on the head for what my issue was, post paranoia. 2 accounts can be used to lock someone out of their house infinitely, so 1 person with 2 accounts can basically screw someone over and they have no way to stop it.
It's not about how the game is played, not about your mortality, not about your house vulnerabilities, not about scouting information, not about money that multiple accounts can bring in... It's the fact you can do nothing, nothing at all, if 2 accounts alternate robbing you (which I thought ASF and JGA were doing). This is the first time I posted about multiple-accounts being an issue, as I feel this is the first real issue that potentially ruins the game.
Let me know if you email the idea about the checkbox or option to get back into your house when multiple people are fighting to get in. If you don't plan on it or respond, I will. We've got his attention for the bounty issue and I figure we'd want to get this one in as well.
I'll let you message Jason, I still feel a bit embarrassed about this melodramatic thread.
Although since you're streaming, building it out will expose your house, so I'm not sure.
Not much of a worry anymore I think. When I first started I would get wrecked by random people with "Sniped" as their house... but now no one even got past my first Magic Dance without using ladders, and that info has been streamed multiple times.
Hey Welkin,
I never catch you online, but I watch the recorded ones and it's always fun. You always show me new ways of looking at problems and I'm grateful. But also, you miss things and I'm always yelling at my computer, there might be a clock! oh no! don't go! Either way it's pretty awesome.
Thanks! And yeah, I can be more careful, but mapping out a house while walking it sometimes you feel the pressure of time, and sometimes when thinking about what the player is doing you get caught up in expecting certain things in the house. I think the trickiest house will be the one with the most mind games and force you very subtly to not check for things. I also appreciate criticism so if I keep doing something wrong let me know, pm me on twitch, steam, or here!
I don't think the money trace is something that can happen. However a simple 3 min window to allow owners to get in and change things should help when a lot of accounts (same or different user) are trying to get into your house. Basically after every attempt, the house cannot be attempted again for 3 mins allowing a user to return if needed.
Do you think being able to return and change things would have quelled your frustration?
Very very very much so. I think that most of my paranoia came from being probed by someone multiple times, seeing him spring back from near destruction, and then being hit by what appeared to be a coordinated assault with lots of money flowing into it, all while being helpless to either spend my money or make changes to my house.
If I could get back into my house to grab tools or spend money by clicking a 'return to house when available' checkbox, which automatically pings the house to let me back in as long as I'm not 5 minutes idle that would be great. I even wrote a program that would click the return to house button then the ok button in an infinite loop while I had a movie playing.
Probably but I'll likely take a break, starting the game is a little rough. I'm really glad it wasn't as malicious as I thought it was.
I guess the moral of this story is, I shouldn't have assumed ASG and JGA were working in conjunction, nor the money being both gained through multiple-account sources. If I only assumed they worked separate and ASG being a successful robber and not another account of JGA I would not have been so frustrated.
Also what I could have done is sold all my tools, upgraded my house, and then waited a while to rob again... but watching ASG's money grow as I hit 'Return to house' over and over hoping I'd get in before (what I assumed) JGA locking me out of my house for the ASG final blow...
Ok, this exploded from when I went to sleep until now.
To address everything I can, I guess it was a coincidence that JGA and ASG tag teamed me, both with multiple ladders that seemed to work in conjunction. The worst part is probably game design, the only way to get back into your house is to mash the 'Return to house' button. My suicide into JGA was mostly frustration cause I already gave up and if it was an account abuser who I could not see then I did not want them to get any of my tools or paintings.
You were poking your head in for 2 days, and my house was bare-bones, almost nothing in it from my total design as I only had 50k to work with, and wanted to keep the tools to attack top dogs, especially earl. Since it was bare-bones, I also kept a close eye on it, as at that point my house was so easy to brute force so every couple hours or so I'd log back in and see who would drop tools on me. JGA kept probing further and further, it would not be long until you committed hard, and my planned counter-measure was to attack first... which I could not do.
As for Murder she wrote, I asked my friend to 2k scout cause it was suspicious and I was curious what level of house was sitting at 1k, but dropped around 12k tools on me (in different increments) with no real sense of income. I thought maybe he had robbed someone and decided to chain rob, I wasn't going to assume the worst (there was only around 3 tooled pokes at that point and no ASG tag-team). I was hoping to get a sense of whether JGA was a wooden walled boss, or a front. My friend robbed with a 2k dive putting him at 1k wife money with slight damages, and his value was 6k later the same day so I knew he was being fed.
But when I was 'being robbed' right after a small JGA poke, I got worried. Kept hitting 'Return to house' and got bored, waited an hour, and the ASG basically poked past the commit gate and left, then JGA came in immediately after with a heavy set of tools that looked like he had got the information from the ASG poke (keep in mind this whole time I could not get into my house at all, nor could I plan my counter-attack as I had no clue who JGA or ASG really are). Was demoralizing and I gave up.
Maybe I'll start playing again sometime, but for now this multiple account hiding is really annoying me. I was ok with multiple account farming, as this game is rough to get set up, but my experience with ASG and JGA poking at me alternately, watching both their money increase while I'm locked out of my house, and I can't even attack them as they are alt-fronts... Was the worst feeling in the world.
Now it's not a complaint about content. It's not a complaint about design. The complaint may be routed in multiple account abusers, but not that they exist but what someone can do.
Let me tell you about a story of Joseph Gerald Alexander and his nameless posse.
As a top dog house, every once in a while you get someone who will probe you with a reasonable amount of tools, not too much of a commitment but enough to see what goes on past a commit gate or 2. This is in contrast to the 2k divers who plan on suicide and just run straight ahead.
I had someone (Joseph Gerald Alexander) break in with around 4k in tools and check out a bit then leave, I took a look at his house and it was at 4k. Sure, murder she wrote and he died, down to 1k value (cause of living wife). Later the same day he breaks in again with 6k in tools followed immediately after by 12k tools. Strange... probably a multiple account user but I don't mind too much.
Then I had a time where my house was locked out by Alec Sean Farley who in combination with JGA did this strange tag-team lock. During this time every click of 'return to house' that got denied refreshed the list that I had filtered to his account. I watched his money go from 2k, to 12k, to 60k, to 30k (I assume he grabbed items from his stock? Maybe had an account rob him back to take half?) in the span of literally minutes. I could do nothing, luckily this guy was not able to break too much of the surface, but then I realized the scope of the money he could pull in.
He basically was un-killable, only thing I could target was JGA which he had no investment in. He was only a front to attack me and take any heat he could get. ASF and his 30k that wasn't used to attack me dissipated. This annoys me so much, after two days of being stalked by this guy I gave up. It's not like my value was even that high, I was mid on the top 8 list. Not sure what he was doing but I'll be damned if it didn't ruin my fun. Being attacked by people you can defend from and attack back, that would be ok. Being targeted by someone you do not know, who can siphon his resources seemingly at a whim, who sends an alt to lock me out of my house while he sets up another account, that is not ok.
Is this a problem with multiple accounts? Sortof. It's not the multiple accounts, it's the lack of paper trail. I was being attacked by multiple accounts who were sharing money in such a way that I could not trace the money back. If this was a movie I'd be saying 'follow the money'. If I could follow the money and found the source, some Jerk Jerky Jerkington who I could attack and set this attack back I'd be happy. But there is none. Cut off one head and another would emerge.
I hope the owner of JGA comes forward and takes credit for his actions, I really want to know who they are.
It's a really cool house idea, though I'm not sure how practical it is exactly, especially your complex psych trap. When I brute-force houses while I myself have a house, i.e. not chain robbing, I refuse to step on any tiles that could kill me (even deactivated electric floors - of course, I did once, but that was by accident). In your place, I would just wire-cutter and water over most of the cleverly set up trap, making all that wiring just a big wooden waste of space.
I agree that the connection to the magic dance as well as most of the wooden circuit could have been simplified (as well as most the top area, I think in the video I call it a waste of space), but he uses signal generators and paradox circuits to try and make you miss-step.
I feel there are 2 real ways to protect your home in TCD, one is to make it difficult to brute force and difficult to guess, but you need to be both as one without the other is lacking. There is also a ticking clock of brute force cost to value you can store in your house safely.
The other is to make it dangerous, where actions of floor panels do not behave as you expect them to. This house is a perfect example of it. A signal generator in the wall so reactions are delayed and let a player step on a 'safe' area and die? Paradox circuits set up so if you cut the wrong wall or floor you'll kill yourself? As Iceman noted, I was 1 step from accidentally killing myself, I only didn't since I cut a wall for a different reason. If you don't expect traps they are dangerous.
I could probably write an entire post about it, but I enjoyed this house more than most I've visited lately as it seemed inspired.
Now, to exact my revenge....
That talk is banned! go away! shoo! shoo!
Based on what I saw I thought explosives would be more useful than wire cutters, and they ended up as over-priced saws... alas
Probably Ortego, his value dropped to around wife-cash level
Well, Weaver was just robbed by Steven Leon Seaman. He did a good job exploiting what I knew was my biggest weakness in one robbery, and I'm pretty sure it saved his life (twice) in the next, when he actually reached the vault. Either that, or he is just a really, really cautious robber normally. He was the only non-suicide robber, so I'm going to "borrow" some money from a neighbor or two to see how my house stands up to other people (or, more than likely, the same one).
I really enjoyed the fake vault location, as well as the double doors into single door dog, that'd kill a lot of careless people.
As for 'saving my life', you mean all the paradox circuits? I have to waste some tools to make sure I wasn't killed by any, really tricky house.
I accidentally killed myself in a self-test (bah), but I'm on my feet again so as soon as his value is higher I'll hit him.
I don't think he was necessarily leaving money for an alt, I've had someone break into my house like they could read everything and run right up to my vault then suicide. No follow up attempt ever happened, and I did not change anything, I was curious if there would be a 'main account' attempt, and if so a target for my next life.
I believe that he broke into an old version of my house in successive 2k dives, but since he was 2k diving he didn't want to destroy my house when he wouldn't even use the money. Maybe if he mapped out enough houses he could try to chain rob them all in succession and really get on his feet?
Woah this exploded. Yeah ham I stream as AkuWelkin. Took down a couple folks tonight so I have enough funds to waste razing some random guy to the ground. Will give it a go tomorrow or maybe later tonight.
This is tempting enough to bring me out of temp retirement, I'll see if I don't die!
O nice, I bought the game through steam so I forgot that I have the source. Thanks for looking into that for me.
I think the argument to lower to 5 slots, IE when brute forcing you can still break it with the 5/6 tools, will only restrict everyone but the rich men on top.
The only reason to take a doorstop is early to scout bases with a cheaper item, but when late game brute forcing I don't take doorstops since a saw, water, or wire cutters (depending on how the door is powered) work just as well and cost $200 more, which late game you don't care.
I think dropping the items down to 5/6 will not change late game when brute forcing costing a little more doesn't really matter. It will hurt your average robber who wants to take a few bricks, a few doorstops, a few clubs, etc..
I really enjoy the safety the Enter-confirmation mode provides (my keyboard is a bit touchy), but enter is an annoying button to press. I normally use wasd so anything close enough to that would be nice. I can use the arrow keys and reach enter, but it's still awkward.
It would be real nice to be able to remap the confirm button to be 'space' or 'f' or any easily reachable key, or even have a click confirm. I tried looking through the settings ini files but couldn't find anything. Is there any way to remap?
Now that I think about it, when you consider chills they don't matter at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have chills for a house, and they die, you don't have chills for their new life, correct? Also being robbed by someone in a past life doesn't give you chills?
Assuming the person builds up the 2nd account upon the 1st account's death, robbing him of half his cash and all his tools, neither house will have chills for the other. Their only interaction was the 1st account was robbed by the 2nd account, which won't give chills for the 1st account to rob the 2nd account. As long as you don't transfer the money back to the 1st account, you can then protect the 2nd with the 1st until you die. Then the only interaction between the 2nd account and the new 1st was being robbed so no chills.
Correct? This would allow you to safely transfer tools + 1/2 cash (minus cost of building new house) each life. Still painful but not bad.
Like all true dual account "exploits", this one is limited by the chills and force-ignore system that is in place, so that while you can do this sometimes, you can't do it over and over in a given day, at least not without having an extra account for each time that you want to do it.
Ooo right! Didn't even occur to me. Glad you've thought about it already though!
I was raiding some high level houses and made a simple mistake and ended up dying inside the house. I was going to show my stream how we gave the guy somewhere around 20k in bounty and released 115 paintings into the auction house... but none were there.
That's when I remembered one of my stream viewers hopped into my house to "protect it" as I've had quite a problem with stream snipers.
I then walked him through beating my vault, and since he had no house he had me re-break into his house with a club and take everything back.
I feel that this system could be abused and someone could get around the risk of dying while attacking someone's house. One slip up should cost someone everything they have, like good Mr Price messing up and losing top spot. This would allow anyone to protect all their non-wife money just by having an empty 2nd account log into their house whenever they attack anyone.
Just wanted to put this up for discussion, maybe it's not as much of a potential problem as I see it.
If anyone wants to see the death, here is a highlight video from my death to realization I could get my money back: http://www.twitch.tv/akuwelkin/c/3692335
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