Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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There's at least one 2k solution to that layout. 2 Saws and a gun. Find it!
Does this fix it?:
http://castledraft.com/editor/VeS4We
The point was more that it's possible to defend your wife completely from $2000 starter tools, the specific example I put together probably has a few flaws.
Likely people who go out robbing for the experience of learning traps and getting ideas, or just enjoying the game, rather than trying to get money and build their own home.
As a basic check you should make sure your house can withstand at least $2000 worth of tools. If your wife can be killed with a meat and a club, and you don't want her to die, then you should improve her security.
I got a whole lot of it scouted out and made a map on CastleDraft, then I saved it but forgot to actually note down the link. I haven't found a solution, but it does look possible.
colorfusion wrote:Americans17 wrote:Why you say ist not posible? U don't need to hit your vault to buy/take tools.
Making a house unsouvable even if you have the map of the house and u know how it works its just nasty and cheating.If you have a broken house, you have to self test it again before properly being able to exit your house. If the house is impossible without tools then you can obviously not do a self test on it without fixing it up first.
You can get a timeout by AFKing (unless it was changed), but you cannot take tools with you this way.
He can repair the house, solve it, and then with his alt just broke it again
He'd lose all of his paintings and half of his money (assuming he has a wife) every time he does that. Possible to be very crafty with transferring money, but unlikely. The reddit post is just using the fact he has animals in pits as proof that he is using an alt to leave his home in a broken state, and calling him a cheater.
colorfusion wrote:Curry (Who I think is JWG) robbed my house with tools just a day ago, which isn't possible with a broken house, and I think he's robbed more since then. So the reddit post is definitely just someone whining.
Even if he did have a broken house, it's hardly "cheating". You can't go out and dump tools to keep your value down, you can't go out and rob other people approaching your value, you just have to sit and watch while your house is inevitably brute forced.
Why you say ist not posible? U don't need to hit your vault to buy/take tools.
Making a house unsouvable even if you have the map of the house and u know how it works its just nasty and cheating.
If you have a broken house, you have to self test it again before properly being able to exit your house. If the house is impossible without tools then you can obviously not do a self test on it without fixing it up first.
You can get a timeout by AFKing (unless it was changed), but you cannot take tools with you this way.
Curry (Who I think is JWG) robbed my house with tools just a day ago, which isn't possible with a broken house, and I think he's robbed more since then. So the reddit post is definitely just someone whining.
Even if he did have a broken house, it's hardly "cheating". You can't go out and dump tools to keep your value down, you can't go out and rob other people approaching your value, you just have to sit and watch while your house is inevitably brute forced.
joshwithguitar wrote:When the system detects a loop that does not settle into a single state, like the paradox circuit which switches between on and off, the settled state is not taken from the last one computed but is rather the "lowest" state achieved during that loop. In these cases the lowest state always happens to be the unpowered state and so the circuit remains unpowered. An easy way to remember it is simply that unsettled electronics - those caught in a repeating loop that varies between "on" and "off" - always default to an off state.
Thank you, Josh. I think I understand. I do have some questions, which may just reflect gaps in my current knowledge:
1) So, is my described order of cycles correct so far? Cycle 1: ON. Cycle 2: OFF. Cycle 3: ON?
2) So "repeating" a state, and "looping," are actually two different things? In the examples here http://castledraft.com/editor/2sP62y (those that are not infinite loops) the states settle because they literally settle- a specific state repeats itself and thereby the circuit is resolved into that state. However, resolution through "looping," like in the paradox circuit, is a different process entirely. What I had thought was, "The first state which is repeated will be the state into which the electronics settle." This is not true. In reality, actual permanent loops are resolved in the manner you describe above.
3) Is there a firm definition for "lowest" state? What does this mean? Unpowered?
4) In your Tiny Signal Generator, the heart of the 8 bit clock, I understand it to work this way: Cycle 1: Sends ON. Cycle 2: Sends OFF. Cycle 3: Sends OFF. Thereby settles to OFF. This is the manner in which it sends one single pulse per game turn. The paradox circuit however, loops, and runs for far more cycles than 3. Therefore, how many single pulses does the paradox circuit send per turn?
Nice to meet you Josh, I've appreciated your posts.
1. So far, yes. As soon it reaches the repeated state it all settles into the unpowered state.
If the state of the map repeats exactly, then it will continue to loop since there is no random element to wiring; if you start in the same state then you will get the same outcome, which as the game has seen is this state.
The game looks for the lowest seen state in the detected loop (by running through the loop again). Unpowered states are always "lower" in all current objects, you can see which states have lower numbers by looking through your houseObjects folder (it's the number of the folder containing the state); it's always its unpowered state. Also note that, although a broken unpowered state may have a higher number than a powered unbroken state, you can never get something's broken state and it's unbroken state in the same loop.
I'm not sure if the code specifically looks for two repeated states in a row and decides to leave it alone, but you can always imagine the same thing happening and it works: If there is a repeated state it looks in that loop and picks out the lowest state, as the "loop" is staying the same the lowest seen state will still be the on state.
Clocks are pretty much all of the advanced electronics you ever need to know, and they're not too hard to understand. Even if you don't understand them then it's incredibly easy to realise that a house is using one simply by not rushing ahead; it's a mistake you only really need to make once.
The game does have a pretty steep learning curve, but I'd hate it for depth to be removed simply to cater for new players; the game is really unique as it is. House design would be pretty boring and limited if we had no wiring, the majority would probably be "guess the right route or have a lot of tools". Keep in mind that magic dances require just the very basics of wiring.
I have no doubt that there are less people playing now than there were at launch date, that happens with every game, but it won't be as dramatic as it looks. The new list mechanics will now spread out robberies more evenly, new players that were throwing themselves at everything will have learnt how to play better, and it's almost been a month since launch.
Keep in mind that, really, you should be expecting a 1:1 ratio for an average player. Every house you die in, you have one person dying to your house. The super accelerated bounty gaining where you could just sit back and wait was only existent because of the huge amount of new players just starting to learn the game. When you are getting robbed less that doesn't really mean there are less people, because 100 houses with 100 people should get robbed roughly the same amount as 500 houses with 500 people, what it means is there are people who are dying more than they are claiming lives.
Right Up Right Right Right
Up Left Right Right Right Right Right
Down straight to the vault
I think the full order of things that happen goes something like this:
- Robber moves
- Pets/family move
- Starting at bottom left corner, going to right then moving up a row
- Switches toggled
- Electronics calculated
- Power propagates, then VTS are switched, repeat 32 times or until a repeated state
- Death calculated
- Vision calculated
The last guy to rob my house drugged a dog right on the square next to the entrance, blocking his own way out. He also killed one of the kids, leaving a corpse blocking the path for the family members.
So, I have a few questions.
1. I can't click "done" now without first removing the corpse or making a path around it - so what happens if I just quit out or go idle now, without touching the house?
2. The "broken" house state was saved because the kid was killed, why is there a dead cat in the halls, but not a drugged dog on the doorstep? I was pretty sure I've been killed by a dog sleeping on the square in front of the exit before... but in my house it seems the wife, shotgun and pitbull pet were all reset after the kid was shot, only the broken walls and corpses were saved.
3. When I do fix the house, I understand that the wife will stop at a child's corpse instead of go to the exit..., does this mean at a T intersection where the armed wife has a choice between the exit and a corpse, she will go stand by the corpse?
As an example... http://castledraft.com/editor/zvqnVu
Will the wife take the cat path or the chihuahua path there?
1. If your wife is still alive, it will be put back onto the house list in the state that it currently is, but the family will not even attempt to navigate around the body to the exit.
2. Drugged dogs wake up and return to their spots, along with family, but dead things stay.
3. This only happens when the child is first killed, not just if you leave the body there.
Is there any uppe limit how much a person can get bountied for? Imho making a semi-secure house go on a clubbin spree and then die at a friends house...
The hard part would be going on a clubbing spree. You need a lot of money, and it's probably pretty hard to find suitable houses where there's no commitment trap and there are children out in the open.
I found it through the first wave of youtube videos (Aavak, MyGameplaying, etc.) right after the public alpha launch, and bought it as soon as I could.
I really like the idea of having to build a defence to withstand some kind of opposing force, but most previous games I'd tried that at first seemed to have this element didn't really live up to what I wanted. Usually it was against an easily fooled AI or there wasn't a point to building anything other than super thick walls. I did however find Minecraft in infdev during my search for such games.
- A single bottle of water costs the same as 50m^2 of wooden walls
- A pistol costs almost four times more than a shotgun
- You can only get close enough to club a dog if there's an even number of spaces between you
- Nobody has a job or pays taxes, but the the state can afford to constantly pay out $2000 for every new citizen and occasionally massive bounties.
jere wrote:OK, to rustle a few more jimmies one last time, here is my v33 house. It's gone, so don't worry.
v33? and it worked?
I think he means it's what he had left over from V32, so you just had to brute force through.
I'm okay with the hard core/rogue-like elements here. I actually played Rogue... the real Rogue back in the 80-90s. All the time too, because that was all my 386 could run!
This however seems unnecessarily punitive. It's going to push people, like me, to just give up. In my mind it's "less than $20" and I'd rather walk away from that if I feel I've gotten a bad deal, than invest more time into it. When that happens to enough people this game is going to die out in a hurry.
Jason doesn't care because he gets paid regardless, but the player-base should be demanding this game be more forgiving so that new players stick around. The fun for everyone will either come or go with the player-base, so don't drive them out.
The permadeath is a really essential part of the game, Jason has given his opinions on it multiple times. It's most likely not going to be removed because new people dislike it. If you keep playing past the initial shock of losing everything then you can begin to see that removing it would really ruin the game. If Jason gave in to every demand of new players then the game wouldn't be worth it for more experienced players.
As a tip for any new people reading, don't spend hours building your house straight away. It's exciting to get building your dream trap, but you will lose it, and probably on the self test from misunderstanding game mechanics.
Also Jason doesn't really seem to care about the money, or at least not to the extent that a lot of other game developers do. If he did, then smoothing out the first part of the game would probably be top priority to get good reviews, rather than sticking to what the game's meant to be and making it something unique.
Pretty awesome server. As an extreme idea, perhaps put starting money pretty much as high as it will go, and then have all tools just over that amount, effectively creating a sandbox server where you can build what you want and have people solve it.
I like the idea of being able to choose where the family goes, although I think it would need to be named something that makes sense thematically in the game rather than "family blocker".
Perhaps even having it work in the opposite way, placing escape route points and having the family go to all of them in order of the shortest path which is the next closest from where they are standing.
Something like this would work for the dog one:
http://castledraft.com/editor/HOsm3iIf you press 1, 3, or 7, the dog doors lose power and they come swarming in. The correct combo is 2,5,6. If you press 4, the combo is broken but the dog's aren't released, which might trick people into thinking 4 is a right button to press.
You should also probably make the incorrect buttons break the combo lock:
http://castledraft.com/editor/8M3Bgv
So that people can't just press most buttons then use drugged meat to get through.
Nobody talks about surviving for month and being top 8...
Don't tell me you can make a 2000$ design, try to scout, maybe get lucky and do a little rob with no tool. Get off line back 24 hours later and not start over. Your starting house is dead if you leave it for 24hrs.
At the beginning you have to get back very often if you want to upgrade your house. I'd say every 4/5 hours more or less depending on your timezone. Like this thread suggest, ideally you want an automatic email to avoid looking stupidly at you vault every hours...
This is not about being top 8, this is about doing more than just designing a starting house and watching the tapes.
You can make a 2000$ design, try to scout, maybe get lucky and do a little rob with no tool. Get off line back 24 hours later and not start over.
Being robbed doesn't mean it's game over, getting your first house to survive overnight isn't something that will happen straight away very often; but you can do some small robberies and rebuild. I think I was about a month into the game before I got mine to survive that long.
You can also change your house design to suit how much you're going to be playing. If you want loads of bounties have hidden commitment traps and lots of pitbulls. If you want to survive long times then focus on defending your vault and wife rather than killing people.
Playing the game often can speed up progression, but it's like that for almost every game.
Here's a small simple sight shift trap I used to use a lot:
http://castledraft.com/editor/MAvRc1
The pitbull isn't in view until you go down then back up. When you go back up the step that you move onto the electric floor, it will turn on. Catches out a few people thinking that see where the wire is coming from and think they can just have a quick peak downwards then exit.
colorfusion wrote:MMaster wrote:Morse code using lights? :-)
Yeah, or maybe the homeowner could set out some kind of giant tile keyboard for the robber to dance on.
Ah so the other way around - robber could leave message to the house owner on the security tape before dying :-)
Pretty much. For homeowner=>robber it would be easier to have a string of random tiles representing different letters, or just massive actual letters in tiles.
colorfusion wrote:Might not be an in game feature, but perhaps we could agree on some kind of robber step code.
Morse code using lights? :-)
Yeah, or maybe the homeowner could set out some kind of giant tile keyboard for the robber to dance on.
Might not be an in game feature, but perhaps we could agree on some kind of robber step code.
I'm half way up the front page, and have been the very top house with the same design, and have a house that is incredibly easy to figure out with a single scouting trip and no tools.
I don't think combo locks are overpowered at all at the moment, although magic dances are pretty annoying.