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#1 2014-03-27 12:35:12

PsyBlade
Member
Registered: 2014-03-17
Posts: 49

sending movelist directly after death

Doorstep suicides seem more common with high bounty robbers. This got me thinking.

Could it be that it is only sent after the robber clicked "accept"? Thus enabling him to hide any weakness he possibly discovered by killing the program. If true could that please be changed?

Additionally I suggest adding the current movelist to the ping, to be used as replay in case of timeout.

Last edited by PsyBlade (2014-03-27 12:52:17)

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#2 2014-03-27 13:02:40

LiteS
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 167

Re: sending movelist directly after death

Currently, if you're killed by the cops the owner gets a disconnect security tape and all the tools you entered with, regardless of how many you used. I'm pretty sure it's the same with disconnect deaths.

Also, it's quite rude for you to keep coming into my house, opening my hallway door, and then promptly leaving, Walter...

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#3 2014-03-27 13:23:18

PsyBlade
Member
Registered: 2014-03-17
Posts: 49

Re: sending movelist directly after death

I know neither my nor your name, and am not aware of any doors I opened particularly often.

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#4 2014-03-27 13:41:59

LiteS
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 167

Re: sending movelist directly after death

Eh, I suppose it was only twice. But still! I'm John Snyder. Pretty sure you're Walter Tedder.

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#5 2014-03-27 13:54:19

DaVinci243
Member
Registered: 2014-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: sending movelist directly after death

Due to the reason everything is client-sided;

- you can expect that those could be hackers changing movelists upon death.


noob programmer haking on open-source game.

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#6 2014-03-27 13:56:48

PsyBlade
Member
Registered: 2014-03-17
Posts: 49

Re: sending movelist directly after death

Probably am.
It's hard to keep all those house designs apart. You should know. You've been to my house four times now. Being chased out by the same dog twice.


A hacker wouldn't change his movelist to suicide, he would change it to exit.
What I'm talking about are simple people closing the program using "kill -9" or whatever the windows equivalent is.

Last edited by PsyBlade (2014-03-27 14:01:52)

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#7 2014-03-27 13:59:43

LiteS
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 167

Re: sending movelist directly after death

Heh, last time I was just demonstrating the proper no-tool solution.

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#8 2014-03-27 14:03:25

DaVinci243
Member
Registered: 2014-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: sending movelist directly after death

PsyBlade wrote:

Probably am.
It's hard to keep all those house designs apart. You should know. You've been to my house four times now. Being chased out by the same dog twice.


A hacker wouldn't change his movelist to suicide, he would change it to exit.
What I'm talking about are simple people closing the program using "kill -9" or whatever the windows equivalent is.

Changing movelist to "exit" will get you to be a "suicider" after a time that you've been in the house.

So my point still could be right.


noob programmer haking on open-source game.

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#9 2014-03-27 14:27:25

PsyBlade
Member
Registered: 2014-03-17
Posts: 49

Re: sending movelist directly after death

It's hard to tell what is accidental and what is intentional.
People have done exactly as you did only to take the first right after freeing the dog and be trapped between it and the one waiting after the turn.
But I guess you figured you my ingame name from matching a house to my various comments about it. So its reasonable to assume that you got it.


You can exit a house safely up until the moment when the sirens timer runs out. So any death before that should be hackable to exit.
Besides, no one would write such a hack anyway. Simply getting a full map instead is both easier to do and more effective too.

Last edited by PsyBlade (2014-03-27 14:34:56)

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#10 2014-03-27 14:32:58

LiteS
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 167

Re: sending movelist directly after death

I like to think that I'm the "one guy who solved the entry puzzle" when you mentioned it on the steam forums. Of course on that 2k run I made the mistake of drugging the dog, which locked me out of the powered trapdoor puzzle right next to it.

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#11 2014-03-27 14:41:37

PsyBlade
Member
Registered: 2014-03-17
Posts: 49

Re: sending movelist directly after death

I would have counted that try.
But a day someone got past that dog commit too. I assumed both chars to be the same person (my guess was JWG).
That make you the first of currently two then.

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#12 2014-04-01 11:30:37

DaVinci243
Member
Registered: 2014-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: sending movelist directly after death

PsyBlade wrote:

It's hard to tell what is accidental and what is intentional.
People have done exactly as you did only to take the first right after freeing the dog and be trapped between it and the one waiting after the turn.
But I guess you figured you my ingame name from matching a house to my various comments about it. So its reasonable to assume that you got it.


You can exit a house safely up until the moment when the sirens timer runs out. So any death before that should be hackable to exit.
Besides, no one would write such a hack anyway. Simply getting a full map instead is both easier to do and more effective too.


1. Movelists can be changed to anything.

2. I already wrote the hack. 1337.

3. Getting the map is as easy as changing your movelist.

4. Getting the map needs more brain power to solve it. ( I tried with high-end houses, takes you quite a while to see everything and calculate every step. ) --> currently this is valid for Snyder's house.

5. I actually wrote the movelist hack only because I'd fuck up when I attempted to solve the maps. ( but I think you'll have to disconnect client from server entirely since I believe server doesn't actually time it. )

Last edited by DaVinci243 (2014-04-01 11:47:59)


noob programmer haking on open-source game.

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#13 2014-04-01 13:39:52

LiteS
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 167

Re: sending movelist directly after death

DaVinci243 wrote:

4. Getting the map needs more brain power to solve it. ( I tried with high-end houses, takes you quite a while to see everything and calculate every step. ) --> currently this is valid for Snyder's house.

*rolls eyes* Yeah, if you cheat to see my whole map my house can easily be solved with a single ladder and brain cell. But without cheating revealing my map would be pretty expensive.

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#14 2014-04-01 13:57:16

DaVinci243
Member
Registered: 2014-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: sending movelist directly after death

LiteS, you are not getting the point.


noob programmer haking on open-source game.

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#15 2014-04-01 16:54:12

MMaster
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 325

Re: sending movelist directly after death

DaVinci243 wrote:
PsyBlade wrote:

It's hard to tell what is accidental and what is intentional.
People have done exactly as you did only to take the first right after freeing the dog and be trapped between it and the one waiting after the turn.
But I guess you figured you my ingame name from matching a house to my various comments about it. So its reasonable to assume that you got it.


You can exit a house safely up until the moment when the sirens timer runs out. So any death before that should be hackable to exit.
Besides, no one would write such a hack anyway. Simply getting a full map instead is both easier to do and more effective too.


1. Movelists can be changed to anything.

2. I already wrote the hack. 1337.

3. Getting the map is as easy as changing your movelist.

4. Getting the map needs more brain power to solve it. ( I tried with high-end houses, takes you quite a while to see everything and calculate every step. ) --> currently this is valid for Snyder's house.

5. I actually wrote the movelist hack only because I'd fuck up when I attempted to solve the maps. ( but I think you'll have to disconnect client from server entirely since I believe server doesn't actually time it. )

I believe you have read the secret when you overwrote it with main server secret phrase. I understand your point and I completely agree, but you just told us that you are cheating because you would "fuck up" when attempting to solve the maps, but that's the whole point of the game!
There are a lot of people playing this game that could also write a hack for open-source game (including myself). But I truly believe they don't or if they do they don't do it on main server which ruins the game for other people. People don't want you to see their maps - they've put a lot of effort into making them. Maybe some people don't understand your point, but you surely don't understand the point of this game.


...

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#16 2014-04-01 17:30:31

Blip
Member
Registered: 2013-05-07
Posts: 505

Re: sending movelist directly after death

DaVinci243 wrote:
PsyBlade wrote:

It's hard to tell what is accidental and what is intentional.
People have done exactly as you did only to take the first right after freeing the dog and be trapped between it and the one waiting after the turn.
But I guess you figured you my ingame name from matching a house to my various comments about it. So its reasonable to assume that you got it.


You can exit a house safely up until the moment when the sirens timer runs out. So any death before that should be hackable to exit.
Besides, no one would write such a hack anyway. Simply getting a full map instead is both easier to do and more effective too.


1. Movelists can be changed to anything.

2. I already wrote the hack. 1337.

3. Getting the map is as easy as changing your movelist.

4. Getting the map needs more brain power to solve it. ( I tried with high-end houses, takes you quite a while to see everything and calculate every step. ) --> currently this is valid for Snyder's house.

5. I actually wrote the movelist hack only because I'd fuck up when I attempted to solve the maps. ( but I think you'll have to disconnect client from server entirely since I believe server doesn't actually time it. )

Honestly, what the fuck? In compiling your client, you had to have read the secret string that states, and I quote:

Please do not use this secret string to connect unfairly modded clients to the main server.  Keep in mind that this is an indie, open-source game made entirely by one person.  I am trusting you to do the right thing.  --Jason

In modifying the clint as you did, DaVinci, you broke that trust to do the right thing. You are going against not only the principles of the game, but common courtesy to the developer and other players. Because of the very nature of this being an open source indie title, we have to trust each other to not completely break the rules of the game. And you're openly admitting to breaking that trust.

It's not impressive to modify open source software. You are not "1337" for doing this. I know my C++ well enough to whip up a simple change like what you did. I have no doubt in my mind that there are others on these forums that could do so as well, if not do more; probably anybody could after an introductory class in the language. But I don't do that and I trust that others don't either. Your modified client is just an example of you being an asshole to all the other players and members of this community, including Jason, and not you being cool or skilled.

The purpose of this game is to rob houses based on partial information: what you can and have seen in those houses. If you don't want to play that way, there are lots of fine games out there for you. However, we don't want you here.


Current life: Not dead, but I have no clue who I am
The Life and Times of Christopher Alvin Harris
Record: 149 Paintings!

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#17 2014-04-01 20:22:05

mala
Member
Registered: 2014-02-10
Posts: 415

Re: sending movelist directly after death

well, i guess THAT'S an issue, being able to see the whole map is way far than gamebreaking...


Current Incarnation: none
Previous Houses: Ticking Nightmare - Luna's Park - Hightower Mansion - Chang's Place

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#18 2014-04-02 01:18:54

MMaster
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 325

Re: sending movelist directly after death

mala wrote:

well, i guess THAT'S an issue, being able to see the whole map is way far than gamebreaking...

That's not all - he is talking about modifying move list which can effectively prevent death for him - that's not "just" map. I know the sources of this game almost like my own as I have played with the client too, but I did it on my testing server and I was trying to do things like hotkeys for tools during robbery, automatic house solver (never finished), etc. Yes it is possible to cheat death, you can even do undo during robbery if you are good enough coder (it's even mentioned in text from Jason in the sources). It's open-source - you can modify anything to your liking.
I guess he is the person that we've seen leaving at 1st turn at doormat with tools for past few days. That's the secondary effect of resetting the move list. He tried to solve the house _several_ times during single robbery and when he couldn't he just reset the move list and leave (therefore we were seeing man leaving at 1st turn wasting tools).


...

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#19 2014-04-02 06:27:25

mala
Member
Registered: 2014-02-10
Posts: 415

Re: sending movelist directly after death

MMaster wrote:
mala wrote:

well, i guess THAT'S an issue, being able to see the whole map is way far than gamebreaking...

That's not all - he is talking about modifying move list which can effectively prevent death for him - that's not "just" map. I know the sources of this game almost like my own as I have played with the client too, but I did it on my testing server and I was trying to do things like hotkeys for tools during robbery, automatic house solver (never finished), etc. Yes it is possible to cheat death, you can even do undo during robbery if you are good enough coder (it's even mentioned in text from Jason in the sources). It's open-source - you can modify anything to your liking.
I guess he is the person that we've seen leaving at 1st turn at doormat with tools for past few days. That's the secondary effect of resetting the move list. He tried to solve the house _several_ times during single robbery and when he couldn't he just reset the move list and leave (therefore we were seeing man leaving at 1st turn wasting tools).

is there a way to check if someone is going this far in exploiting the code? and ban them from the main server?

this is the kind of behavior that could crush the game once and for all, and i enjoy it too much to see it being ruined that way

Last edited by mala (2014-04-02 07:07:31)


Current Incarnation: none
Previous Houses: Ticking Nightmare - Luna's Park - Hightower Mansion - Chang's Place

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#20 2014-04-02 07:33:20

DaVinci243
Member
Registered: 2014-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: sending movelist directly after death

Blip wrote:
DaVinci243 wrote:
PsyBlade wrote:

It's hard to tell what is accidental and what is intentional.
People have done exactly as you did only to take the first right after freeing the dog and be trapped between it and the one waiting after the turn.
But I guess you figured you my ingame name from matching a house to my various comments about it. So its reasonable to assume that you got it.


You can exit a house safely up until the moment when the sirens timer runs out. So any death before that should be hackable to exit.
Besides, no one would write such a hack anyway. Simply getting a full map instead is both easier to do and more effective too.


1. Movelists can be changed to anything.

2. I already wrote the hack. 1337.

3. Getting the map is as easy as changing your movelist.

4. Getting the map needs more brain power to solve it. ( I tried with high-end houses, takes you quite a while to see everything and calculate every step. ) --> currently this is valid for Snyder's house.

5. I actually wrote the movelist hack only because I'd fuck up when I attempted to solve the maps. ( but I think you'll have to disconnect client from server entirely since I believe server doesn't actually time it. )

Honestly, what the fuck? In compiling your client, you had to have read the secret string that states, and I quote:

Please do not use this secret string to connect unfairly modded clients to the main server.  Keep in mind that this is an indie, open-source game made entirely by one person.  I am trusting you to do the right thing.  --Jason

In modifying the clint as you did, DaVinci, you broke that trust to do the right thing. You are going against not only the principles of the game, but common courtesy to the developer and other players. Because of the very nature of this being an open source indie title, we have to trust each other to not completely break the rules of the game. And you're openly admitting to breaking that trust.

It's not impressive to modify open source software. You are not "1337" for doing this. I know my C++ well enough to whip up a simple change like what you did. I have no doubt in my mind that there are others on these forums that could do so as well, if not do more; probably anybody could after an introductory class in the language. But I don't do that and I trust that others don't either. Your modified client is just an example of you being an asshole to all the other players and members of this community, including Jason, and not you being cool or skilled.

The purpose of this game is to rob houses based on partial information: what you can and have seen in those houses. If you don't want to play that way, there are lots of fine games out there for you. However, we don't want you here.


I hope you know you can set your own server up.


noob programmer haking on open-source game.

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#21 2014-04-02 07:55:26

MMaster
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 325

Re: sending movelist directly after death

mala wrote:
MMaster wrote:
mala wrote:

well, i guess THAT'S an issue, being able to see the whole map is way far than gamebreaking...

That's not all - he is talking about modifying move list which can effectively prevent death for him - that's not "just" map. I know the sources of this game almost like my own as I have played with the client too, but I did it on my testing server and I was trying to do things like hotkeys for tools during robbery, automatic house solver (never finished), etc. Yes it is possible to cheat death, you can even do undo during robbery if you are good enough coder (it's even mentioned in text from Jason in the sources). It's open-source - you can modify anything to your liking.
I guess he is the person that we've seen leaving at 1st turn at doormat with tools for past few days. That's the secondary effect of resetting the move list. He tried to solve the house _several_ times during single robbery and when he couldn't he just reset the move list and leave (therefore we were seeing man leaving at 1st turn wasting tools).

is there a way to check if someone is going this far in exploiting the code? and ban them from the main server?

this is the kind of behavior that could crush the game once and for all, and i enjoy it too much to see it being ruined that way

Usually yes - it can be found in the logs (Jason has improved the cheater logging quite a lot recently) if he made a mistake while developing the hack. There are other ways I know about to find such hacker that I will not disclose here. You can also report possible hackers to Jason by email and he can check logs/his replay tapes and more.

DaVinci243 wrote:

I hope you know you can set your own server up.

Yes we know that, but on your own server you don't have traps that you can't solve. And you admitted that you did it because of that. Stop making excuses now.


...

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#22 2014-04-02 08:36:04

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: sending movelist directly after death

Yeah, really, not cool DaVinci243.

Please stop.

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#23 2014-04-02 08:38:52

DaVinci243
Member
Registered: 2014-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: sending movelist directly after death

I tested my hacks' feature at DarkunderdoG's server.

To clarify some other stuff, read this before you post:

1- I gave Snyder's house as an example w/e looking to itself but common sense points that it's a high-end house.

2- The "hacks" actually started with a auto map maker.

3- http://castledraft.com/editor/RaGXyA <--- A house you could find with google.


------------------------------

Quote from MMaster:
I guess he is the person that we've seen leaving at 1st turn at doormat with tools for past few days. That's the secondary effect of resetting the move list. He tried to solve the house _several_ times during single robbery and when he couldn't he just reset the move list and leave (therefore we were seeing man leaving at 1st turn wasting tools).

Just no. please no.

I wouldn't walk with my tools ( can't even afford lmfao. ) , since I got unlimited chances. That's probably a normal player or an idiot.

All my hacks are old atm. I just C+P'd auto house maker to new version.

PS: Don't expect me cheating @ main server. ( Did Jason respond to the house making automated blah blah thread? )

And then we have community servers. We will see.

-----------------------------------

jasonrohrer wrote:

Please stop.

Does auto house maker count as a hack?

Last edited by DaVinci243 (2014-04-02 08:40:05)


noob programmer haking on open-source game.

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#24 2014-04-02 09:08:57

MMaster
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 325

Re: sending movelist directly after death

DaVinci243 wrote:

1- I gave Snyder's house as an example w/e looking to itself but common sense points that it's a high-end house.

I think you are making fun of us - you posted reply to this thread after last patch and you said that Snyder house is hard to solve even with map.
Let me quote you:

DaVinci243 wrote:

4. Getting the map needs more brain power to solve it. ( I tried with high-end houses, takes you quite a while to see everything and calculate every step. ) --> currently this is valid for Snyder's house.

So you were using cheats after last patch.

It doesn't matter how it started - you obviously used it on main server and you sure knew that those are not some kind of auto house building helpers, but serious cheats influencing other players and giving you really unfair advantage.

Please stop making excuses and just stop using your cheats on main server.


...

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#25 2014-04-02 10:38:22

DaVinci243
Member
Registered: 2014-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: sending movelist directly after death

MMaster wrote:
DaVinci243 wrote:

1- I gave Snyder's house as an example w/e looking to itself but common sense points that it's a high-end house.

I think you are making fun of us - you posted reply to this thread after last patch and you said that Snyder house is hard to solve even with map.
Let me quote you:

DaVinci243 wrote:

4. Getting the map needs more brain power to solve it. ( I tried with high-end houses, takes you quite a while to see everything and calculate every step. ) --> currently this is valid for Snyder's house.

So you were using cheats after last patch.

It doesn't matter how it started - you obviously used it on main server and you sure knew that those are not some kind of auto house building helpers, but serious cheats influencing other players and giving you really unfair advantage.

Please stop making excuses and just stop using your cheats on main server.

I'm not making fun of anybody, and you are just guessing. Please stop making further assumptions. That's why I posted the first post you quoted from. I knew you would probably assume or say something like that. But, you can always read the full post where I said you should read it BEFORE posting another.

I'm not on high-scores on any server atm including yours. So you can chill.


noob programmer haking on open-source game.

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