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#1 2013-11-16 12:56:27

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

This has happened to me twice now - the first time, I just assumed I was mistaken about something, but the second time confirmed it.  Both times, I replaced a Trap Door with a non-conducting light to test a new addition to my house.  I went through the self test, DIDN'T reach the safe, and left.  When I tried to replace my Trap Door, it's charging me full price, even though I'm placing it in the exact position it was before the self-test.  The pit bulls that I replaced with chihuahua's aren't charging me extra, so it's just a problem with the Trap Door.  When I went back and undid everything till the beginning, the trap door was back, and I was charged $0.

Actually, I just figured out what's causing it.  When someone robs you, any Trap Doors stay as they were at the end of the robbery - in my case, powered.  If you try to place a new Trap Door there, it will charge you, because technically they're in different states, even though at the beginning of the self test they'll be the exact same.  This really doesn't make sense, since a powered Trap Door and non-powered one will be exactly the same through any robbery, so it doesn't make sense to treat them differently (and charge you for it).  Could you treat Trap Doors like toggle switches, and reset them whenever a robbery is completed?

P.S. Nice job, Maurice Albert Jacobson - although I don't appreciate being used to fuel dual account money transfers, that was a nice security hole that you found in my house.  It has been patched wink  Plus, I ALMOST managed to get the money you left - I just realized what was happening too late wink

Last edited by iceman (2013-11-16 12:57:05)


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I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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#2 2013-11-16 20:55:37

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

if you return home to powered trap doors, when you have finished reviewing the robbed state of the house, simply click 'done' and then exit the self test immediately and the house will reset to everything powered off.

are you sure it didn't have a dead critter inside it? i think a dead critter causes a new trapdoor to be purchased. that stink of death lingers!


edit this gave me an idea!

perhaps the build screen could have an on/off button on the UI that will cause the power supplies to run their power through the current set of electronics laid down? turning it off would simply reset to regular build mode display (no saving up power in the little batteries people make).

or would that confuse new players (and old ones?) who are trying to test their clocks? hmm. food for thought anyhow! (obviously you shouldn't be able to kill yourself in build mode, and i know it is possible to have every tile as non-deadly/blocking in build mode.. because i kind of made myself a mod for that.)

Last edited by largestherb (2013-11-16 20:59:27)

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#3 2013-11-16 21:32:32

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

largestherb wrote:

if you return home to powered trap doors, when you have finished reviewing the robbed state of the house, simply click 'done' and then exit the self test immediately and the house will reset to everything powered off.

As far as I know this doesn't actually fix it.  Unless somethings changed, I recall having a lovely set of closed trapdoors in a house from a previous version (when I could afford them).  I loved this, as it enabled me to get around and edit more easily.

largestherb wrote:

... and i know it is possible to have every tile as non-deadly/blocking in build mode.. because i kind of made myself a mod for that.)

Share?  Or is it considered cheating to enable something like this?


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#4 2013-11-16 21:33:36

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

I'm sure there wasn't a dead animal inside.  Here's what happened

1. Enter editing, trap door is closed (you can walk over it)
(At this point, if I placed another trap door on it, it charged me for the new one)
2. Replace trap door with non-conducting indicator light
3. Self test, didn't reach the safe, left through the door
4. Replaced indicator light with trap door, I'm charged for it

Because of that, I don't think that entering a self-test and quitting it immediately will work.

Again, there's nothing wrong with the trap door - in fact, I was able to just use it without replacing it, and it works just like a normal one.


Fortress Theory Mod - New objects, tools, and paintings!

I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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#5 2013-11-17 17:31:38

largestherb
Member
From: england
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 381

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

dalleck wrote:
largestherb wrote:

if you return home to powered trap doors, when you have finished reviewing the robbed state of the house, simply click 'done' and then exit the self test immediately and the house will reset to everything powered off.

As far as I know this doesn't actually fix it.  Unless somethings changed, I recall having a lovely set of closed trapdoors in a house from a previous version (when I could afford them).  I loved this, as it enabled me to get around and edit more easily.

largestherb wrote:

... and i know it is possible to have every tile as non-deadly/blocking in build mode.. because i kind of made myself a mod for that.)

Share?  Or is it considered cheating to enable something like this?

oh, hmm. that seems odd then!

uhh sharing.. i don't think it is cheating because there is no real in-play advantage, just a lot less having to delete and replace walls as you move around. i would liken it to using button 4 on your mouse to go back in your browser rather than clicking the back button.

you can do it yourself pretty easily, find every wall/window/vault/pit, duplicate the 0 state folder and rename is 1, go back into the 0 state folder and change properties file to remove the 'blocking'

the game uses a houseobjects 0 state in build mode, and then 1 in a robbery - or if there is no 1, it defaults back to 0. so basically, wooden walls for example have a 0 state, then 2 for broken, 3 or burned, etc. but no 1. i just copied the default 0 to 1, and changed the properties of 0 to remove 'blocking' and now i can walk over them in build mode but they go back to blocking me in robbery/test mode.

i have been using this for a while and haven't failed any server tests, so i would say for now it is safe for now.

Last edited by largestherb (2013-11-17 17:40:07)

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#6 2013-11-18 03:38:35

dalleck
Member
Registered: 2013-04-13
Posts: 250

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

largestherb wrote:

you can do it yourself pretty easily, find every wall/window/vault/pit, duplicate the 0 state folder and rename is 1, go back into the 0 state folder and change properties file to remove the 'blocking'

the game uses a houseobjects 0 state in build mode, and then 1 in a robbery - or if there is no 1, it defaults back to 0. so basically, wooden walls for example have a 0 state, then 2 for broken, 3 or burned, etc. but no 1. i just copied the default 0 to 1, and changed the properties of 0 to remove 'blocking' and now i can walk over them in build mode but they go back to blocking me in robbery/test mode.

i have been using this for a while and haven't failed any server tests, so i would say for now it is safe for now.

Nice.  I do think it is a large stretch of the imagination to consider this cheating, seeing as this doesn't give you any sort of advantage or effect any other players.

I suspected something like this, but I thought it would require copying the settings files over between building and robbing.  I didn't realise the game has different settings for robbing and building.

Thank you for sharing smile


The rich aren't safe. Nobody is safe. -jere                   ...but the smell wafts out from the pit, obviously. - Jason Rohrer

And the more dickish they are, the more I feel like beating a house to destruction after finally figuring it out. -bey bey

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#7 2013-11-18 16:14:00

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

Not cheating!  You are only robbing yourself of proper intimacy with your own creation.

As for the trap door thing, yes, this is working as it should be, as strange as it is.

The problem is that, at the end of a robbery, a dog can end up standing on TOP of a closed trap door.  Thus, any trapdoor that was closed at the very end of a robbery gets "stuck" closed (stuck means that it doesn't auto-reset after the owner comes home and fiddles with the house---it can still go through normal transitions during robbery, but it remains stuck during editing).  Most non-broken things auto-reset to their 0 state after your first self-test (after you get to inspect their post-robbery state, which may involved some closed doors, etc.)

But if a trapdoor auto-reset, sometimes, it would leave a living dog floating in the air in edit mode (because dogs can't die in edit mode).


And having the trapdoor only be stuck closed if a dog is on top would require a bunch of extra trapdoor states, which would be messy.  So, the trapdoor remains closed, just to be safe.

It will pop open again, permanently, after any successful robbery where it is open at the end of the robbery.

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#8 2013-11-18 16:14:43

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

Also, I wish I had an elegant solution for this issue, but it eludes me.

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#9 2013-11-18 16:45:38

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

I'm assuming that if you end up with a dog on a, say, powered door tile after a robbery, when you delete that tile in edit mode, it somehow recognizes that you deleted both a mobile and normal tile, so you can replace the powered door and move the dog without cost, correct?  Would you be able to just have it work like that for trap doors - just when you delete a trap door (whether or not it has a dog), it remembers that there was a trap door there, but not its state?  That way, it doesn't matter if there was a dog or not on top - after you delete the tile and replace it, there's no way that a dog could still be on top.

Basically, the problem isn't that it's open (powered) during self test.  The problem is that it's charging me for deleting it and replacing it in the same spot.


Fortress Theory Mod - New objects, tools, and paintings!

I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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#10 2013-11-18 18:06:33

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Replacing Trap Door With Light Bug

Good point!

Right now, the code is using the same "stuck" flag to handle both "broken" thinks (like dead pets, fried power supplies, etc.) that actually need paid replacement and the one weird case (trapdoors) where the thing isn't actually broken, but needs to preserve its state for possible consistency.

I really should separate the two things.... so that something could be "stuck" (does not auto-revert in edit mode for whatever reason) but not subject to paid replacement.  Essentially, a "doesNotFlipBackButNotActuallyBroken" property.

Thanks for helping me see it clearly!

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