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#1 2014-02-19 03:44:34

Kimenzar
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 183

Ideas and questions

So first the ideas:

A Curtain: blocks sight but let pets go through.
Bricks could deactivate it(break the stick and the curtain fall down).

Tool, Battery: Can be used to power electric floors or open circuits, but don't have enough power to hold trapdoors.
I saw many powered Doors lately at the start or commits with dogs and turned off "fake" electronic floors. So you could use it to hold a door closed or turn on a floor where you are sure that this is a dog commit. I think a price from 400 to 800 would be balanced for this tool.


And now my questions:

What is the most compact 2 bit-clock that repeats and have 2 entrances at top for each signal?

and

What is the best way or most efficient or most compact way for a pitbull hallway.(To protect his family)

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#2 2014-02-19 04:15:12

arakira
Member
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 176

Re: Ideas and questions

Kimenzar wrote:

What is the most compact 2 bit-clock that repeats and have 2 entrances at top for each signal?

The answer should be in this thread: http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … php?id=944

Kimenzar wrote:

What is the best way or most efficient or most compact way for a pitbull hallway.(To protect his family)

I don't think an universal optimal solution exists. Given the space you allocate to protect your family, try different layouts and for each one, think about what is the minimum cost (guns/club/explosive/etc.) a robber would have to spend to get to your family. Look around the forum, many people post their house design after they die, you'll get many ideas...

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#3 2014-02-19 04:24:28

Kimenzar
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 183

Re: Ideas and questions

Think i found a good clockidea to work with,thanks. smile

the pitbull hallway should be more like a discussion. I have a simple Solution that i don't feel good about it.

something like this: http://castledraft.com/editor/q90ZVO

I liked that design of pits and dead cats but maybe there is one genious out here that have another maybe better solution.

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#4 2014-02-19 05:54:39

arakira
Member
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 176

Re: Ideas and questions

Kimenzar wrote:

I have a simple Solution that i don't feel good about it. something like this: http://castledraft.com/editor/q90ZVO

The cheapest way to go through this is to bash through the middle concrete walls and drug the pitbulls. The cost is 700$ per square on the Y-axis, that's not too bad...

Last edited by arakira (2014-02-19 06:01:23)

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#5 2014-02-19 07:16:33

Kimenzar
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 183

Re: Ideas and questions

http://castledraft.com/editor/P0VoP1 <- calculations for the right method are only viable for the situation this build works(Didn't test it, only have it in mind)

6*1400 => 8400/56(Number of squares) = 150 costs to breakthrough per square

7*1200 => 7600/42 = 171 costs per square

The second solution is cheaper to break but takes less space that you could invest in a longer pathway or a more secure house.

That's the reason i don't feel really good about the first solution.

Last edited by Kimenzar (2014-02-19 07:17:36)

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#6 2014-02-27 13:31:13

Kimenzar
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 183

Re: Ideas and questions

I think, my ideas were never read =/

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#7 2014-02-27 14:54:55

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Ideas and questions

Not until now!  I have like 40 forum posts a day to keep up with.... sorry!

Curtains are interesting.  Someone else proposed something like that a while back.  Though... I'm wondering what kind of interesting designs could be possible with curtains.  For a dog to come out, it has to see you first somewhere else (because the curtain blocks the dog from seeing you).  So what is the value of hiding the fact that a dog is back there and about to come out?  Or hiding what else might be back there?  Why would you want to do that?  Castledraft example, please (use a horizontal and vert wires in place of curtains, maybe, to demonstrate).

Also thought about a battery in the past.  As a way to "mess with" electronics beyond just snipping wires... actually powering them.  But this felt way over powered, because you could bypass some things directly.  Though maybe not.... even if you could bypass a trapdoor with a battery, people could "hide the wires" deep behind stuff and prevent you from applying the battery.  Just like they hide the wires to a door to prevent you from just snipping the wire to the door.

I'm thinking that a battery could only be attached directly to wires, right?  So more compact designs would also not be vulnerable to a battery being inserted.  Or maybe it could also be attached to electric floors?

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#8 2014-02-27 14:58:49

TheRealCheese
Member
Registered: 2014-01-25
Posts: 349

Re: Ideas and questions

How about a tool to unpress a button? You would have to be adjacent to it and it should probably cost something like a saw or the likes.

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#9 2014-02-27 14:59:56

MMaster
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 325

Re: Ideas and questions

I think this would be viable: http://castledraft.com/editor/JSiWGy

EDIT: It's instead of powered doors without the wires and buttons. I'm not sure about the curtain idea, but this is first thing that came to my mind. Don't mind the vault and family.

Last edited by MMaster (2014-02-27 15:20:09)


...

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#10 2014-02-27 15:43:25

Kimenzar
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 183

Re: Ideas and questions

jasonrohrer wrote:

Not until now!  I have like 40 forum posts a day to keep up with.... sorry!

Curtains are interesting.  Someone else proposed something like that a while back.  Though... I'm wondering what kind of interesting designs could be possible with curtains.  For a dog to come out, it has to see you first somewhere else (because the curtain blocks the dog from seeing you).  So what is the value of hiding the fact that a dog is back there and about to come out?  Or hiding what else might be back there?  Why would you want to do that?  Castledraft example, please (use a horizontal and vert wires in place of curtains, maybe, to demonstrate).

Also thought about a battery in the past.  As a way to "mess with" electronics beyond just snipping wires... actually powering them.  But this felt way over powered, because you could bypass some things directly.  Though maybe not.... even if you could bypass a trapdoor with a battery, people could "hide the wires" deep behind stuff and prevent you from applying the battery.  Just like they hide the wires to a door to prevent you from just snipping the wire to the door.

I'm thinking that a battery could only be attached directly to wires, right?  So more compact designs would also not be vulnerable to a battery being inserted.  Or maybe it could also be attached to electric floors?

MMaster gave a good example, or you want to hide something you couldn't hide, cause camera angle and if the dog can't go through the floor, it would deactivate another trap so you need another camera angle and so much more space for maybe a simple trap. Something like this: http://castledraft.com/editor/Y6A81m

Like I said, the batterie shouldnt get enough power, to power a trapdoor(Don't know if this is possible with the state of electronics to differ between power and battery). That would be to strong and noone would use a ladder if you could attach it directly. So it would be only real useful at Powerdoor commits or you want to really burst 1 electric floor cause the power would not flow further trough simple electric floor traps(so cable cutter don't loose their sense).

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#11 2014-02-27 15:49:54

ukuko
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 333

Re: Ideas and questions

TheRealCheese wrote:

How about a tool to unpress a button? You would have to be adjacent to it and it should probably cost something like a saw or the likes.

You can use a crowbar to un-stick a sticky switch.

If you're rolling in money, of course.

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#12 2014-02-27 15:52:22

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: Ideas and questions

It depends on how curtains are implemented.  If they close again after you move through them, then a maze of curtains would be possible, where you can't see a thing, and there might be dogs closing in on you every step (I don't think that's a good thing).  If they stay open, it's harder to seriously exploitation, but there's still the case of not having a chance of knowing whether a dog is going to open that curtain when you're right beside it.  Right now, you'll almost always have at least 1 more step of foresight


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The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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#13 2014-02-27 15:55:45

Kimenzar
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 183

Re: Ideas and questions

I would say they should be open if the robber goes through(not pets). And if you know there could be some pet behind a curtain , you would just move until it shows up, and maybe open the sight behind the curtain too.

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#14 2014-02-27 16:37:34

MMaster
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 325

Re: Ideas and questions

I just got an idea while robbing one house - what if you could wake up sleeping pitbulls using club or brick?


...

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#15 2014-02-27 16:44:03

LiteS
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 167

Re: Ideas and questions

MMaster wrote:

I just got an idea while robbing one house - what if you could wake up sleeping pitbulls using club or brick?

The reason you can't disarm sleeping pitbulls has been discussed by Jason before. It comes down to making pitbull position to matter.

If you could 100% kill a pitbull with 1 meat & 2 clubs or 1 meat, 1 brick, 1 club dealing with dogs becomes far too easy. Not to mention that that makes the family much harder to defend.

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#16 2014-02-27 16:50:41

MMaster
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 325

Re: Ideas and questions

LiteS wrote:

The reason you can't disarm sleeping pitbulls has been discussed by Jason before. It comes down to making pitbull position to matter.

If you could 100% kill a pitbull with 1 meat & 2 clubs or 1 meat, 1 brick, 1 club dealing with dogs becomes far too easy. Not to mention that that makes the family much harder to defend.

Oh right. I understand that.


...

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#17 2014-02-28 12:18:00

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: Ideas and questions

For the battery, it would be balanced by the fact that you can only attach it to bare wires.

A powered door is currently vulnerable to having its wire snipped, so house designers need to protect the wires that control their doors.

But wires leading to trapdoors currently don't need to be protected (because snipping them doesn't let you cross).

So, a battery could cost the same as the wire cutters, but do the opposite (cause a wire to become powered instead of breaking the power at that point).

And I supposed it would have to be applicable to electric floors too, just like the wire cutters.... though a battery "cooking" on an "on" electric floor would be a bit strange.


I'm hesitant to add either of these things, because though they add interesting wrinkles, I'm not sure that the game really needs them.

Also, we currently have 12 tools, which fits beautifully on a single screen in the grid view...  That's not a great reason to avoid making it 13 tools, but it is a reason.

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#18 2014-02-28 14:50:22

CastleSeaNanners
Member
Registered: 2014-02-28
Posts: 4

Re: Ideas and questions

How Do Cats Move? I know they stay away from you but i just want to know like exact. I know its probably been discussed but just wondering…
If someone could help please and thank you.

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#19 2014-02-28 15:03:37

Kimenzar
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 183

Re: Ideas and questions

the problem is, you can easily defend a door to be closed until you want it open:
http://castledraft.com/editor/1gMwdH
cost to see whats behind the door 3600/2400, but most robbers just want it to be closed, so attach a battery on that door would mean, that it stay closed. It would not change the crowbar cause it opens the close door not let it stay close.

I still think that trapsdoors are expensive enough and dangerous(for selfetest) to be only bruteforced by ladder or to go the way around.

See it that way, more items means, less bruteforce actions, more traps to counter items or something like that.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Also, we currently have 12 tools, which fits beautifully on a single screen in the grid view...  That's not a great reason to avoid making it 13 tools, but it is a reason.

House owner can do more than 12 things =P

I could try to come up with more tools, but the battery was the most useful, balanced and did not replace other tools of my ideas. Let me sleep a night trough and maybe i get you a new 4 grid tool ;P


other things to add could be more voltage triggered plates, but from other sides, but i think its ok how it now is, cause it is more predictable.

Last edited by Kimenzar (2014-02-28 15:04:02)

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#20 2014-02-28 15:05:32

MMaster
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 325

Re: Ideas and questions

CastleSeaNanners wrote:

How Do Cats Move? I know they stay away from you but i just want to know like exact. I know its probably been discussed but just wondering…
If someone could help please and thank you.

I found this topic about it where I learned it:
http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … p?pid=2035


...

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#21 2014-02-28 15:15:53

Kimenzar
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 183

Re: Ideas and questions

CastleSeaNanners wrote:

How Do Cats Move? I know they stay away from you but i just want to know like exact. I know its probably been discussed but just wondering…
If someone could help please and thank you.

kinda difficult to explain, but first you move then the cats move

they prefer horizontal movement first, if they need to decide betwenn two directions.

Better someone with more experience can explain it

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#22 2014-02-28 18:08:21

CastleSeaNanners
Member
Registered: 2014-02-28
Posts: 4

Re: Ideas and questions

Ok thank you, also does a wire bride like cross wires without them affecting?

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#23 2014-02-28 18:33:09

JoyOfTrapping
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 158

Re: Ideas and questions

CastleSeaNanners wrote:

Ok thank you, also does a wire bride like cross wires without them affecting?

Yes, a wire bridge allows the horizontal wiring and the vertical wiring to be independent from one another.  They will pass through the same tile without their voltages affecting one another.  This is useful for complex, compact circuits, or when you have two separate circuits that have to occupy the same area.


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#24 2014-02-28 19:13:52

Killer Mosquito
Member
Registered: 2014-02-28
Posts: 53

Re: Ideas and questions

Even better might be an EMP or electronic flare?  The EMP could disable (for better or worse) all wiring within one step (North south east west) of the robber.  I like the idea of an electronic flare that, when used, will show all wiring on the screen for approximately 1-2 seconds.  Make it more expensive than wire cutters, maybe $500-600?


Unknown.... thanks Blip
Unknown again because I thought I'd go on a no-tool revenge run on Blip.  Silly me........
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#25 2014-02-28 19:19:12

joshwithguitar
Member
Registered: 2013-07-28
Posts: 538

Re: Ideas and questions

jasonrohrer wrote:

For the battery, it would be balanced by the fact that you can only attach it to bare wires.

A powered door is currently vulnerable to having its wire snipped, so house designers need to protect the wires that control their doors.

But wires leading to trapdoors currently don't need to be protected (because snipping them doesn't let you cross).

So, a battery could cost the same as the wire cutters, but do the opposite (cause a wire to become powered instead of breaking the power at that point).

And I supposed it would have to be applicable to electric floors too, just like the wire cutters.... though a battery "cooking" on an "on" electric floor would be a bit strange.


I'm hesitant to add either of these things, because though they add interesting wrinkles, I'm not sure that the game really needs them.

Also, we currently have 12 tools, which fits beautifully on a single screen in the grid view...  That's not a great reason to avoid making it 13 tools, but it is a reason.

People will find a way to work around tools like this - there are already lots of houses that use multiple trapdoors without using any passable wired tiles. You would have to make sure that the battery can also be placed on red indicator lights, toggle/rotary/sticky switches, wires bridges acting in both directions and even voltage triggered and inverted switches. Even with all of this there would only be a very small amount of commonly seen traps that this would be effective against and all it would do is make these no longer appear meaning the battery would probably become redundant. There are times when I think "a voltage detector is just what I need right now!" but they are so far and few between that I would never actually take one into a robbery. I think the same would end up happening for the battery.

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