Vindictive robbers

death_to_ice_cream_vans · 2014-03-04 15:27:31

Lately, I've been encountering a lot of vindictive robbers.

1. I build a house with my starting 2K, leaving $800 or so left over for tools.

2. I finish, go and scout/attempt a few houses with basic tools.

3. I might get lucky and find an easy house where I can rob the vault and kill the wife.

4. Within the next ten minutes, a robber comes to my still very basic house, equipped with ~2k worth of tools: a gun, 3 x meat, 3 x water, etc. and proceeds to lay complete waste to it, for no financial reward whatsoever. Obviously, it's someone who is pissed of that I broke their house and wants to return the favour.

Now, I think this is very clearly not in the spirit of the game. What I propose is very simple and wouldn't change the game's the other mechanics at all: if a robber enters a house carrying tools worth more than the value of the house, a message could appear saying, "This place doesn't look worth your time" or something like that, and return you to the house list with all your tools intact. Otherwise, houses too small in value could be removed from your list altogether, so you can't even see them.

Discuss.

Last edited by death_to_ice_cream_vans (2014-03-09 20:01:29)

TheRealCheese · 2014-03-04 15:33:18

I've had the same thing happen a lot without any successful robberies on my side. I think there are just more people getting their rocks off spending 2k on tools and then going on to trash a random house, start over and do the same again. But the proposal is good.

Americans17 · 2014-03-04 15:56:10

TheRealCheese wrote:

I've had the same thing happen a lot without any successful robberies on my side. I think there are just more people getting their rocks off spending 2k on tools and then going on to trash a random house, start over and do the same again. But the proposal is good.

Actually in my last 2k houses people with 2k tools come to my house and forced just to take $300/400. I don't know why they do that, to gain experiencie? You can go and try solve 4k+ houses, you don't need to destroy a starter houses

TheRealCheese · 2014-03-04 15:58:38

Americans17 wrote:

TheRealCheese wrote:
I've had the same thing happen a lot without any successful robberies on my side. I think there are just more people getting their rocks off spending 2k on tools and then going on to trash a random house, start over and do the same again. But the proposal is good.
Actually in my last 2k houses people with 2k tools come to my house and forced just to take $300/400. I don't know why they do that, to gain experiencie? You can go and try solve 4k+ houses, you don't need to destroy a starter houses

I wrote a song the other day about a similar issue. It's titled "People Are Dickholes."

Shinnbob · 2014-03-04 16:00:23

Ever since I lost a nice house (stupidity) I have had the same issues. Some people just want to destroy others for no gain it would appear. Just got to get lucky and get to a stage where 2k tools are useless unfortunately.

JoyOfTrapping · 2014-03-04 16:56:42

Sorry guys. It's been a big week for me!

TheRealCheese · 2014-03-04 16:57:48

JOT I don't believe that you do that. I believe you do it on a house that's hard enough to be fun for you, but just 2k-suiciding on low houses is not your style.

LiteS · 2014-03-04 17:01:17

Destroying someone's house just because they broke yours is very much in the spirit of the game, and was vaguely referenced to in the trailer with the line "You'll remember that name."

TheRealCheese · 2014-03-04 17:02:37

LiteS I believe that what's happening though is people destroying low houses just for kicks. Had it happen to me several times without doing any robberies.

death_to_ice_cream_vans · 2014-03-04 18:49:31

LiteS wrote:

Destroying someone's house just because they broke yours is very much in the spirit of the game, and was vaguely referenced to in the trailer with the line "You'll remember that name."

Is that so? In real life people can commit suicide and then come back to life to kill the person who made them indigent? Revenge is absolutely in the spirit of the game, but not in this wanton fashion.

Even if it was in the spirit of the game, this trend is clearly detrimental to the game's overall mechanics and players' continued enjoyment. That should be reason enough to stamp it out.

Americans17 · 2014-03-04 22:38:04

LiteS wrote:

Destroying someone's house just because they broke yours is very much in the spirit of the game, and was vaguely referenced to in the trailer with the line "You'll remember that name."

How do you revenge if the name changes every time you die? I mean, I make a new house, the first/second person who enters has a 2k kit to force my starter house, how is that even revenge?

LiteS · 2014-03-04 23:17:53

Americans17 wrote:

LiteS wrote:
Destroying someone's house just because they broke yours is very much in the spirit of the game, and was vaguely referenced to in the trailer with the line "You'll remember that name."
How do you revenge if the name changes every time you die? I mean, I make a new house, the first/second person who enters has a 2k kit to force my starter house, how is that even revenge?

If someone steals everything from me and I feel particularly angry about it I might suicide and try to destroy their house with 2k. That's revenge in my mind.

You guys are right though, starting a life by building a house and then having it fall to a fresh 2k isn't revenge, and it isn't very cool. With a starter house it is difficult although not impossible to build a layout that does ok against suicide robbers. Usually those layouts can only afford one or two real traps, but if those are your best traps it may be all that you need to rack up a few bounties to expand.

Last edited by LiteS (2014-03-04 23:19:28)

Kimenzar · 2014-03-05 04:29:13

LiteS wrote:

Americans17 wrote:
LiteS wrote:
Destroying someone's house just because they broke yours is very much in the spirit of the game, and was vaguely referenced to in the trailer with the line "You'll remember that name."
How do you revenge if the name changes every time you die? I mean, I make a new house, the first/second person who enters has a 2k kit to force my starter house, how is that even revenge?
If someone steals everything from me and I feel particularly angry about it I might suicide and try to destroy their house with 2k. That's revenge in my mind.
You guys are right though, starting a life by building a house and then having it fall to a fresh 2k isn't revenge, and it isn't very cool. With a starter house it is difficult although not impossible to build a layout that does ok against suicide robbers. Usually those layouts can only afford one or two real traps, but if those are your best traps it may be all that you need to rack up a few bounties to expand.

If your trap is good enough you only need one trap until you go over the 10k

RevealingGekco · 2014-03-05 06:46:12

There is an imbalance between starting builders and starting robbers, with builders being at a disadvantage at the start.

Builders:
- can't use up all their funds
- invest time in their creation
- take on multiple robbers - not knowing when they will strike
- have a house that can probably be worked around with a few meat/saws/water.

Robbers:
- can use all their funds if they choose
- get to take the initiative (builder will probably not react to their first few income spikes)
- have nothing invested in their current life (spawn, buy 2k tools, go rob).

This advantage shifts back to the builder in the middle game. At this point, the builder has survived a night or two and has a house that is virtually impossible with 2k tools. All further deaths by 2k robbers at this point only provide funds to make the house stronger.

Personally, I think this shift of power is one of the things that makes the game interesting.

JoyOfTrapping · 2014-03-05 09:31:17

LiteS wrote:

Usually those layouts can only afford one or two real traps, but if those are your best traps it may be all that you need to rack up a few bounties to expand.

Yes:

Kimenzar wrote:

If your trap is good enough you only need one trap until you go over the 10k

Yes. This is exactly what you need to do, especially if you are having problems consistently getting above the starter situation/low-class/the poverty line. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps! Haha, ok ok, I just wanted an excuse to say that. Here's what to do.

Examine what I call your "vocabulary" of traps. If all you have is a few generic traps you saw while out robbing, and cookie-cutter things you saw from the wiki (Read: electric floor, sticky, power commit) (Read: "Fire floor" corner trap) (Read: A pitbull that chases you into a door lottery), what you need to do is step up your game. These are not "bad" traps- that's why people use them! They are fine for filling up space in your house and decreasing the overall probability that someone will reach your vault. But you are going to have to step out of the copy & paste mindset to get to the next level.

You have to move from concrete to abstract- gain a theoretical knowledge of the principles behind these traps and then apply those principles your own way. Your two weapons here are creativity, and deception. You will have to use those to build a viable and defensible starter house without using a starter bonus from a good robbery. My advice is, as said above, get away from the small copy & paste traps from the wiki, and just build one good trap setup that is original and synergistic. This will not bankrupt you, and will kill a lot of people early on. Camp on your tapes and upgrade and fortify it every few kills.

A good example of this "one good trap" setup would be the main pitbull-instant-death trap you can look at on my YT, from TunnelHell Part 1, A Deathtrap Deconstructed. A few mechanisms from something like that can be subtracted at the start and still be confusing and deadly- more powerful synergistic elements can be added as money arrives.

Move away from extensity and move toward intensity- don't use more money, use the power of abstraction to pack more killing power into one solid trap, then test and adapt it! Creativity and deception!

Last edited by JoyOfTrapping (2014-03-05 09:31:56)

death_to_ice_cream_vans · 2014-03-07 04:50:00

Sound advice, but it doesn't really help in light of my original post. There is no effective trap a player can construct for ~$1500 which will stop a robber with 2k of tools from killing the wife, and possibly breaking the safe.

I wish Jason would read this thread, because I'd love to hear his thoughts on the matter.

death_to_ice_cream_vans · 2014-03-07 04:55:01

From the suggestions thread:

Cam_X wrote:

Maybe when your house is above a certain value you shouldn't be able to attack lower value homes. I mean I can't tell you how many times people walked into my starter homes with three times The value of my home in tools.

Lord0fHam · 2014-03-07 09:54:28

death_to_ice_cream_vans wrote:

Sound advice, but it doesn't really help in light of my original post. There is no effective trap a player can construct for ~$1500 which will stop a robber with 2k of tools from killing the wife, and possibly breaking the safe.
I wish Jason would read this thread, because I'd love to hear his thoughts on the matter.

There is a house that can do this. its called a powered pit with a combo lock.

TheRealCheese · 2014-03-07 10:03:03

If you do a powered pit with a combo lock for your vault you don't really have money left over to protect the family very well. But yeah, the game has gotten harder. It has made me more stubborn. Not that that seems to be helping me out XD

JoyOfTrapping · 2014-03-07 10:07:06

Even if there was, I think it's been made very clear that that kind of 100% security isn't supposed to be part of the "point" of the game. You are always going to be vulnerable from some angle in this game and you are always supposed to be. The intention behind any advice or any tactic is to get you the highest probable chance of clawing your way up to a higher level of play. 100% security or protection from any specific class of robber does not exist in the game, and is an idealized condition you have created in your mind as a psychological defense against your feelings of frustration due to vulnerability in the game world. I would advise against asking for the rules of play to be changed in this particular case and lean toward stepping up your game instead.

Lord0fHam · 2014-03-07 10:07:20

screw the family. i just put mine right in the front so that someone will kill them sooner rather than later. they WILL die in the end, and i want to be able to make more complex traps, without them having to leave, sooner. also, then you lose the least amount of money when the wife dies.

TheRealCheese · 2014-03-07 10:13:59

My current goal is to get to the mid/high level of the game and have my family alive and behind one of those pit/pitbull hallways. I agree that the rules should not be changed. Changing starting money means more money to build with but also more money for starting tools for other people, so doesn't really 'fix' it. People have gotten better at the game, which makes it harder on us mediocre players but that just means we have to get more stubborn and keep going, keep learning.

mala · 2014-03-07 22:32:31

that doesn't make sense...

fresh start, i just robbed a 4.5k house, made my new one leaving 590$

and than 5mn later...

that's definitively not a 2k suicide run, lately starting a new house it's become a lot more difficult than it was. too much meaningless destruction (and i kinda like it) but if peoples start raiding 300$ house with a 4k+ equipe.... there's no way to pass the first hour

Edit. and while i was writing this post, another guy entered my house with a gun to shot my wife, taking her last 145$.

Last edited by mala (2014-03-07 22:40:29)

JoyOfTrapping · 2014-03-07 22:46:05

A sad tale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lcHmpH_ … e=youtu.be
i am truly sory for your lost

Last edited by JoyOfTrapping (2014-03-07 22:51:20)

Storm · 2014-03-07 22:51:51

have a nice day

The Castle Doctrine Forums

#1 2014-03-04 15:27:31

Vindictive robbers

#2 2014-03-04 15:33:18

Re: Vindictive robbers

#3 2014-03-04 15:56:10

Re: Vindictive robbers

#4 2014-03-04 15:58:38

Re: Vindictive robbers

#5 2014-03-04 16:00:23

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#6 2014-03-04 16:56:42

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#7 2014-03-04 16:57:48

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#8 2014-03-04 17:01:17

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#9 2014-03-04 17:02:37

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#10 2014-03-04 18:49:31

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#11 2014-03-04 22:38:04

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#12 2014-03-04 23:17:53

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#13 2014-03-05 04:29:13

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#14 2014-03-05 06:46:12

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#15 2014-03-05 09:31:17

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#16 2014-03-07 04:50:00

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#17 2014-03-07 04:55:01

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#18 2014-03-07 09:54:28

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#19 2014-03-07 10:03:03

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#20 2014-03-07 10:07:06

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#21 2014-03-07 10:07:20

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#22 2014-03-07 10:13:59

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#23 2014-03-07 22:32:31

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#24 2014-03-07 22:46:05

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