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#1 2014-03-10 09:19:50

monkey
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 50

not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

I had a starter house and (as usual) the first guy to turn up had tools worth more than my vault. Anyway, he killed both the kids but the wife had shotgun so she got away.

One of the kids died on the square the wife normally starts at, and it seems this causes the wife to spawn one tile to the south, which happens to be the tile with the shotgun, so my wife is now like this in edit mode:

RdI8SJi.jpg

She insta-kills anyone who opens the doors, just as though she had already seen them. Pretty neat, huh?

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#2 2014-03-10 09:23:59

Shinnbob
Member
Registered: 2014-02-27
Posts: 24
Website

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

I have had the same issue. The wife was killed in a spot where the son should be. The son escaped but obviously the code of the game won't let him respawn on the same spot. Instead he respawned on a panic button which was instantly pressed when the burglars came into the house making the house near impossible to complete.

I would think a way round this is to possibly make the family members dead body go back to the place where they started if there is going to be a clash with other family members spawns on new robberies - or something along those lines.

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#3 2014-03-10 09:41:48

colorfusion
Member
Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 537

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

This seems pretty bad, an instadeath with no possible way to know beforehand. Perhaps the wife should pick up the gun on the turn that she steps off of the shotgun rather than the turn she steps onto it, so you always see her for at least one turn.

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#4 2014-03-10 09:47:45

monkey
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 50

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

Nah, that would ruin other legit placements wouldn't it?
She should just not spawn on top of the shotgun in the exact same way that she does not spawn on top of corpses or inside walls.

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#5 2014-03-10 09:48:47

JoyOfTrapping
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 158

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

Hahahaha, yeah this needs to be fixed.  You could make deliberately engineered insta-death traps by using two accounts, and having the alt account kill a child to cause this behavior.


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#6 2014-03-10 09:50:54

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

colorfusion wrote:

This seems pretty bad, an instadeath with no possible way to know beforehand. Perhaps the wife should pick up the gun on the turn that she steps off of the shotgun rather than the turn she steps onto it, so you always see her for at least one turn.

At least Jason seems to have taken care of the ultimate form of it (right when you enter this house):
original.jpg
GET. OUT. OF. MY. HOUSE.

Interestingly enough, that setup lets you step *on top of* a wife with a shotgun, and get away safely, since she's deadly when standing beside you, but not deadly when standing on you.

But yeah, this needs to be fixed somehow.  I think moving corpses is a bit weird, but I'm having trouble thinking of anything else...
EDIT: Yeah, I think that just not having family spawn on shotguns or panic buttons is best.  You could make it be mobiles in general, but you could do that to fill the entire hallway that she spawns in with dogs, and make her spawn somewhere random (or not at all).

Hey, this gives me a *great* idea for a trap. Hide a cat under a wife, let the robber see them across some electric floors, they can *see* that there's no button for the wife to press so they move onto the grids, and suddenly the cat darts out from under the wife and presses a button, frying them. Muahahahahahhaha!

Last edited by iceman (2014-03-10 10:15:52)


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#7 2014-03-10 10:02:30

monkey
Member
Registered: 2014-02-12
Posts: 50

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

The wife already gets bumped if she is spawning on a corpse, I haven't looked but I am sure the code does not bump her inside a wall or other obstructed tile. Shotguns should just be treated as obstructions in that code, that's my guess.

JoyOfTrapping wrote:

Hahahaha, yeah this needs to be fixed.  You could make deliberately engineered insta-death traps by using two accounts, and having the alt account kill a child to cause this behavior.

Yeah, that's why I didn't post the original layout that enabled it, I'm sure it's not that hard to figure out tho.

Last edited by monkey (2014-03-10 10:05:51)

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#8 2014-03-10 11:08:14

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2013-04-01
Posts: 1,231

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

Wow!  Yeah, this is a good one.

On my list to fix (they'll just avoid jumping back on top of mobiles at all, including shotguns and panic buttons).

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#9 2014-03-10 12:45:46

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

If they avoid jumping on top of pets, wouldn't something like this be possible? Pretend cats are family.

http://castledraft.com/editor/qXxd7D

First one is the starting layout.  After that, you get an alt to drug the dog on top of the grate, and reach the safe.  Come back as builder, fill in the wall where the dog used to be (leaving the middle layout).  Then, get you alt to get the dog and child to move down 1 - kill the child, put the dog to sleep.  When the wife tries to go back, the whole hallway is filled, so she teleports to the nearest empty spot - a nice little cubby-hole you prepared for her beforehand (in this case, assume she seeks up).

Then, you'll have a completely safe wife until you log back in, assuming no-one happens to dig that way randomly.

Actually, you don't even need to kill the child - just use more dogs to take the corpses place.


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I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
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#10 2014-03-10 12:57:46

TheRealCheese
Member
Registered: 2014-01-25
Posts: 349

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

But Iceman, houses are allowed to exist in a broken state, the problem with the original issue is that you can leave your wife there even if you come edit your house. With your option you have to let someone get half your money or kill one of your kids every time you want to do it.

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#11 2014-03-10 14:16:56

iceman
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Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
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Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

I'd say it's a different case than simply breaking a house by reaching the safe.  Breaking the house currently means that there's simply no way to reach the safe without tools.  In practice, that's almost always already the case before the house was broken, *and* there still has to be some indication where your safe is (a path that *could've* been passable with a different pet layout) - a weak point.

The broken wife is different.  You can hide your wife in a way where there's absolutely no indication where the she is, making it practically impossible to find her.  Very, very few people are going to dig into 16 layers of concrete, pits, dogs, and powered doors in the hope that the wife will be behind there.  Plus, it lets you disguise the fact that your house is broken.  Currently, if you see nowhere for the wife to be(or a corpse), you know that you could reach the safe.  If you hid your wife behind a wall and reached the safe, it means that the safe could be broken with *no* outward indications.  Another issue: what happens when there is no empty spots on the map?  Will the wife disappear?  Delete a random tile?  If so, could you make her delete the safe?!?!  Just conjecture (I'm guessing deleting the safe won't work wink), but either way it will be buggy. (EDIT: Looking at the code, it looks family (and pets) will just disappear if there's no place for them.  Awwww.... I was wanting to have a house with no safe =P)

Letting her spawn on pets will solve all of those issues (since this whole issue is caused by things *moving* onto her start point), and it creates very little problems.  The only thing it could do is hide a pet underneath her, which you can already do in certain ways now.

Last edited by iceman (2014-03-10 14:48:01)


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I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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#12 2014-03-10 14:18:25

TheRealCheese
Member
Registered: 2014-01-25
Posts: 349

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

Very true iceman, good points, I see your concern.

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#13 2014-03-10 18:42:52

Blip
Member
Registered: 2013-05-07
Posts: 505

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

iceman wrote:

Another issue: what happens when there is no empty spots on the map?  Will the wife disappear?  Delete a random tile?  If so, could you make her delete the safe?!?!  Just conjecture (I'm guessing deleting the safe won't work wink), but either way it will be buggy.

How would this happen? The wife takes up one tile already, and there is no way something else can take up that tile without moving from another tile, making that one empty instead. The wife might teleport around, but there would always be a spot for her.


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#14 2014-03-10 18:51:33

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: not sure if this is a bug, exploit or intended behaviour...

Blip wrote:
iceman wrote:

Another issue: what happens when there is no empty spots on the map?  Will the wife disappear?  Delete a random tile?  If so, could you make her delete the safe?!?!  Just conjecture (I'm guessing deleting the safe won't work wink), but either way it will be buggy.

How would this happen? The wife takes up one tile already, and there is no way something else can take up that tile without moving from another tile, making that one empty instead. The wife might teleport around, but there would always be a spot for her.

I showed how up above (here's the castledraft link).  If Jason didn't let the wife spawn on dogs, then you could have someone "break" the house in a way that leaves a pet on a tile.  Fill in the tile the dog was originally from, then have them "break" the house again, this time having the dog stop on the wife's spawn, and there'd be nowhere for her to go.

(btw, I've checked the code, and she'll just disappear... angry that you filled the house with all of your stuff, no doubt wink)


Fortress Theory Mod - New objects, tools, and paintings!

I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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