Fortress Theory Mod - Version 3

iceman · 2014-03-27 14:22:24

DaVinci243 wrote:

Will it be open-source by any means?

DaVinci, you're back! And with a different forum account, apparently. I don't really want to release the source code publicly, since it leaves the door wide open to cheaters. However, I'm probably going to be a bit more likely than Jason to switch the game, so if you have any suggestions, let me know, and I might add them.
EDIT: Oh, that's right, you play on Linux, right? I'm working on getting access to Ubuntu (don't want to install it on my computer), and I hope I can compile the game next week. Would that be the right version for you?

Speaking of, I remember you mentioning that you had a simple way to save your maps a while back. Would you be willing to point me in the right direction for that? It would save me a lot of time, and it's a feature I really want to include in Fortress Theory. I'm hoping it will encourage high-profile robbing a bit, since you can get your exact house back almost instantly (as long as you get the funds from somewhere ).

Last edited by iceman (2014-03-27 14:27:43)

GotABigTrap · 2014-03-27 15:09:50

Nice work on my mechanical droid house Mr Eatmon.

Blip · 2014-03-27 16:36:32

Who was Mr. Bynum? That house was really weird, and had lots of random elements. In the top right corner, past the vault, there was a chihuahua-based floor trap that was missing a floor. There was a chihuahua who just threw himself into a pit. There was a CAD in a really easy position to kill. And the door to the vault could be opened and closed at the press of a button right out in the open.

Also, the outside walls had weird random extra walls here and there, like they were done very haphazardly, but they followed a pattern. The purpose of half of it befuddled me.

Kimenzar · 2014-03-27 16:41:50

Spencer John Tapia... that was not the end... i only made a fault to forgot a dog meat >.>

Sometimes, i'm just drunk and stupid and forgot to safe my new buyed equip and waste it on lower houses -.-'

Last edited by Kimenzar (2014-03-27 16:49:46)

gyuri · 2014-03-27 16:52:04

Blip wrote:

Also, the outside walls had weird random extra walls here and there, like they were done very haphazardly, but they followed a pattern

The vault used to be hidden in those walls, you had to go down the electric floor path and find it, it was hard to spot. But that house was never hard to rob. I don't really know who made it. I used it thousands of times to dump tools and get them later.

iceman · 2014-03-27 17:42:16

Pretty sure it's Storm - he mentioned that he through together a house to test the new stuff, and then he came back to see it had gone up, and down, and up, and down in value. I've robbed Bynum fairly periodically, since he seems to get a suicide robber die there will full tools fairly often (I'm guessing someone's trying to make free money, but I'm profiting from it ). They started doing it with Wages, too, which was an account I made to test something, but I finally took it down.

42dustman · 2014-03-28 10:44:29

Things sure got agitated while I was out.

I think I got serious attempts from practically every other player in the server... Damn, this is way better than vanilla.

By the way, who's Mr. White?

Last edited by 42dustman (2014-03-28 10:47:03)

gyuri · 2014-03-28 11:00:19

Guess. I was Moody as well, but ran into your poison gas just like a noob. Twice.

Edit: "Monty White is a British young earth creationist and was formerly the Chief Executive of the UK branch of Answers in Genesis." (from Wikipedia)

Last edited by gyuri (2014-03-28 11:02:06)

gyuri · 2014-03-28 15:27:52

We should talk about poison gas. It's very powerful, might be even overpowered.

The only time I saw it combined with smoke was in Blip's house. It was a nice guessing game, but I doubt I would be happy to see it again without the captions that helped.

Most people use them for wife defence (including me). You can't really get past them without using a gun for each one, and you can put some pitbulls next to them with the right spacing to make the robber use two guns in order to advance two tiles. Cutting the power is an option, but not much cheaper if you cover the wired walls with concrete.

Also there is the logical inconsistency that the poison gas kills the robber but not the pets or the family.

Maybe we need a new tool like a gas mask or something like that. Any thoughts on this?

Blip · 2014-03-28 17:06:18

gyuri wrote:

Maybe we need a new tool like a gas mask or something like that. Any thoughts on this?

New tool: the Terrible Gas Mask. Makes poison gas no longer deadly, but smoke gets stuck in the mask and kills you instead.

iceman · 2014-03-28 17:17:18

gyuri wrote:

We should talk about poison gas. It's very powerful, might be even overpowered.
The only time I saw it combined with smoke was in Blip's house. It was a nice guessing game, but I doubt I would be happy to see it again without the captions that helped.
Most people use them for wife defence (including me). You can't really get past them without using a gun for each one, and you can put some pitbulls next to them with the right spacing to make the robber use two guns in order to advance two tiles. Cutting the power is an option, but not much cheaper if you cover the wired walls with concrete.
Also there is the logical inconsistency that the poison gas kills the robber but not the pets or the family.
Maybe we need a new tool like a gas mask or something like that. Any thoughts on this?

Yeah, the whole "mind-game" thing hasn't worked out the way I wished it had (which is understandable - I was always a bit dubious about whether it would work or not).

I've used it as well for wife defence. However, I'm pretty sure that the two-direction power requirement keeps it fairly balanced. You can always shoot the first poison gas, then tunnel through the wooden walls. That way lets you get by for $800 every 2 steps instead of $2400. I could be wrong, though- can you think of something to build that will prevent you from digging through that way?

Wait, never mind. I think something like this would be the most expensive. However, that's 3 squares wide- I forget, but how effective is the best crippled-pet-in-pit + dog setup?

That being said, the tool I'm introducing in v3 should make it a bit cheaper to get through poison-gas + dog hallways (although not by much- it will probably cost $800), so that might help a bit more.

As for the family and pets, it's a rising gas, so pets walk underneath it, while the whole family has been inoculated to the gas. The owner is allergic to the inoculation shots, though.

Blip · 2014-03-28 17:30:51

iceman wrote:

I forget, but how effective is the best crippled-pet-in-pit + dog setup?

It's 1 gun per 2 tiles, I think. So $600 per tile traveled? And that's already very effective.

iceman · 2014-03-28 20:24:29

Blip wrote:

iceman wrote:
I forget, but how effective is the best crippled-pet-in-pit + dog setup?
It's 1 gun per 2 tiles, I think. So $600 per tile traveled? And that's already very effective.

Yeah, but that's 2 tiles in a zig zag. The total cost straight up is just under $1200 per step, I think. (Actually, it seems to be $871.4, if my math below is correct)

Here's what I believe are the best construction with poison gas, and the best with pits.
http://castledraft.com/editor/SWcqxi

For the pits, without ladders you would have to shoot 10 dogs and club 1 ($12200) to reach the top hallway. The most cost effective way with ladders would be to go up the left side: 6 guns, 3 ladders, and 4 dog meat ($13000), which is obviously less effective).

Now, the poison gas setup. You have to shoot 5 dogs and 4 poison gas, and club 4 dogs ($11600). If you didn't have the pits holding the dogs back, a robber could, for each screen change, drug the first dog, pile the rest behind him, shoot the first, then club the rest. 3 screen changes means he would have to only use 3 pistols for dogs, not 4 (not counting the top dog), so using pits beside the poison is the best option, even though they force the dogs to pile up like that.

So, using poison gas is just barely less effective than the best pit setup. The main difference is that the poison gas is 3 tiles wide, while pits have to be "primed" by a previous successful robbery. Let me know if you can see any flaws in my reasoning, but I think it's already not too OP, and the $400 decrease in the cost of disabling poison next update should balance not having to "prime" the defense.

42dustman · 2014-03-29 09:42:46

Why not just let us block the gas exits of the machines by throwing the cardboard boxes on top of them?

Blip · 2014-03-29 09:47:30

42dustman wrote:

Why not just let us block the gas exits of the machines by throwing the cardboard boxes on top of them?

This. It would balance the OP poison gas machine and make the box more useful.

iceman · 2014-03-29 14:21:25

I like that idea, both mechanically and thematically, but I think having a cheap tool always be able to disable such an expensive trap isn't a good idea. Let me share what my current ideas are:

The new tool will probably cost $800, and will be able to be used on poison gas machine. If the machine is on, it will be destroyed. If the machine is off, using the new tools will keep it off for at least 2 turns. This lets you walk by it safely, or you can torch it to make sure you have a safe way back.

With that implementation, if you just do a standard poison gas setup (like the one in the castledraft map), it will cost $800 to get by each one. However, if you have a pet powering each poison gas as you step beside it, you can force a robber to spend $1600 per poison gas, at the cost of space/potential weakness.

Using the cardboard box idea, you could cover up the machine instead of torching it - the only difference would be that the cardboarded one would still block movement. I'd probably bump up the box price to $200, or even $400, so that building something to turn on the poison gas machines would be at least a little bit feasible.

What do you guys think about that?

gyuri · 2014-03-29 15:19:18

Wow, just had a very intense moment at someone's entrance and found out something important about CADs. If you move to an unpowered tile and the CAD moves to the same tile in the same turn, you will nearly shit your pants but survive. Feel free to try this at home.

About the other stuff - I like the idea of being able to throw the box, but I think if it could block poison gas it would have to be much more expensive, and then why shouldn't it be able to block or trap pets as well?

I'm not sure about the new tool. Is it only for the purpose of destroying/disabling the poison gas? You can do it with a gun for $1200 without having to care if it's on or off before you use it, so I don't really think anyone would bother bringing anything else.

The thing about the poison gas is, it makes adjacent tiles deadly. I would love to see something to use not on the machine itself but on the deadly tiles to make them safe, even if only for one turn. Like neutralizing the gas with water (of course much too cheap) or something.

Lord0fHam · 2014-03-29 15:32:54

there should be a laser gun for shooting cads and windows and all the other pets and family.

gyuri · 2014-03-29 17:30:08

With unlimited range so you can fire it in one direction and later find the dead bodies in the other end of the house.

GotABigTrap · 2014-03-29 21:15:31

haha I left funny tapes for Wilson

First I got up to like 9000$ in my vault. Then I went on a spree and died leaving behind a nice bounty

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2014-03-29 21:22:55)

gyuri · 2014-03-30 01:41:45

Guys you gotta love my house. I had 92 rob attempts this night, and judging by the tapes there were at least five different robbers (or someone with amnesia). One guy basically solved it at then gave up...

GotABigTrap · 2014-03-30 08:31:04

the top house right now with the electric mouse puzzle?

lol I solved one of those electric men houses and it was incredibly easy, landing me like 15k or so. put a new house up enjoy!

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2014-03-30 08:32:54)

iceman · 2014-03-30 10:52:40

gyuri wrote:

About the other stuff - I like the idea of being able to throw the box, but I think if it could block poison gas it would have to be much more expensive, and then why shouldn't it be able to block or trap pets as well?

Right now, I'm thinking about bumping the box up to $400 if I let it stop poison gas. But then that would probably be too cheap for a non-wife defending use of Poison Gas... no, wait, that places it in a similar situation to powered doors - cheap to disable it if unpowered, expensive if it's powered. How does everyone feel about that?

gyuri wrote:

I'm not sure about the new tool. Is it only for the purpose of destroying/disabling the poison gas? You can do it with a gun for $1200 without having to care if it's on or off before you use it, so I don't really think anyone would bother bringing anything else.

It will have other uses as well, but I'll probably remove the ability to shoot poison gas - I included that more because it was the only expensive ranged tool, not because I wanted it to be like that. I mean, shooting a barrel tears off half of it? =P

gyuri wrote:

The thing about the poison gas is, it makes adjacent tiles deadly. I would love to see something to use not on the machine itself but on the deadly tiles to make them safe, even if only for one turn. Like neutralizing the gas with water (of course much too cheap) or something.

Hmmm... at first I thought this is impossible, but I've thought up a bit of a round-about way to do this. It would probably require changing the robbers state without killing him, though, which I can't do yet.

42dustman · 2014-03-30 11:20:12

gyuri wrote:

Guys you gotta love my house. I had 92 rob attempts this night, and judging by the tapes there were at least five different robbers (or someone with amnesia). One guy basically solved it at then gave up...

That was me, I think. The dog-leap-maze thing is the final part of it ain't it?

gyuri · 2014-03-30 12:12:01

Maybe?

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