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#1 2015-01-10 23:28:16

JAAM
Member
Registered: 2014-11-22
Posts: 299

death order?

so how does the order of death occur?

since everything is divided into steps is pet death separated from player death? if so which happens first?


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#2 2015-01-11 05:23:30

eppfel
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From: Germany
Registered: 2014-02-01
Posts: 324
Website

Re: death order?

I thought it's in the wiki, but I can't find it. Player death is calculate at very last. I remember the order being something like: pet movement (and family) -> electronics -> death of pets (and family) -> death of player
After tool-use the cycle runs without movement of pets and family.

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#3 2015-01-11 11:07:41

JAAM
Member
Registered: 2014-11-22
Posts: 299

Re: death order?

hmm so i cant somehow kill a dog and not a player then i was tinkering with small scale pulses all night to no avail. I figured as much the ultimate goal was to have an ultimate leap of faith where a player walks into a dog standing on an electric grid and instead of dieing the dog just drops dead of an electric shock. guess thats not going to work if the order is calculated like that.

Many Chihuahuas died last night. Rest in piece brothers.


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#4 2015-01-11 18:06:47

gyuri
Member
Registered: 2013-07-09
Posts: 231

Re: death order?

JAAM wrote:

an ultimate leap of faith where a player walks into a dog standing on an electric grid and instead of dieing the dog

That was a nice feature in the Fortress Theory, walking into a powered bot that lost power in the same turn... very scary leap of faith indeed!

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#5 2015-01-11 19:32:18

JAAM
Member
Registered: 2014-11-22
Posts: 299

Re: death order?

Oh was it? Unfortunately I was not here during the days of fortress theory from what I heard and saw it sounded quite nice.

Last edited by JAAM (2015-01-11 19:32:54)


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#6 2015-01-12 00:43:08

cullman
Member
Registered: 2014-03-21
Posts: 424

Re: death order?

I'd be curious if there are any features, tiles or tools from Fortress a Theory that people would almost universally think it would be a good add to Terminal Heist. I didn't play FT myself, so I am relying on you guys for this info.

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#7 2015-01-12 02:20:47

gyuri
Member
Registered: 2013-07-09
Posts: 231

Re: death order?

I liked quite a lot of the FT features, you should read the FT-tread and if possible contact iceman.

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#8 2015-01-12 03:50:53

AMWhy
Member
Registered: 2014-02-04
Posts: 432

Re: death order?

I forget if it was in FT or just a suggestion way back, but electronic windowed curtains were a good idea (linked to a standard switch).  If closed, animals can't see you and, of course, you can't see them!

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#9 2015-01-12 05:11:40

Passive
Member
From: England
Registered: 2014-09-18
Posts: 420

Re: death order?

AMWhy wrote:

I forget if it was in FT or just a suggestion way back, but electronic windowed curtains were a good idea (linked to a standard switch).  If closed, animals can't see you and, of course, you can't see them!

Kind of like a powered door you cant go through when open? I think would be good as well as currently have to use pit and door to achieve it.

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#10 2015-01-12 08:54:21

eppfel
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2014-02-01
Posts: 324
Website

Re: death order?

I did not try out FT too much, but by considering to add tiles, you should stick to Jason's paradigm that every tile changes gameplay. As gyuri suggested mobiles that run on power was a nice addition in FT. I built the example he mentions myself and it was actually not surpassable with tools safely, which there is no such counterpart in TCD. So, there have to be new tools as well and a lot of balancing. It took one year of alpha and over 20 iterations for TCD to be balanced out like it is now.

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#11 2015-01-15 06:35:10

voxel
Member
Registered: 2014-08-05
Posts: 84

Re: death order?

Powered blinds are listed as a new object in the FT changelog. I never played it and it's too bad there's no server up; wonder if I should do so (on a friend's server tongue)

cullman, I'm curious to know whether TH is going to preserve all of the intricate rules for pet movement, electronics, turn orders, etc, from TCD. True, it took a long time to make them "non-exploitable". But you won't get "exploited" only if you're an advanced player who knows all the rules. My instinct is that while keeping some of that stuff (pet movement) is mandatory, it's bad design to have people making traps using arcane game internals rather than explicitly explained game objects that more players will be able and willing to understand.

Last edited by voxel (2015-01-15 06:38:11)

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#12 2015-01-27 21:13:22

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: death order?

cullman wrote:

I'd be curious if there are any features, tiles or tools from Fortress a Theory that people would almost universally think it would be a good add to Terminal Heist. I didn't play FT myself, so I am relying on you guys for this info.

I know it's been two weeks since you asked this question, but one idea that I liked personally was tools that you could use on empty floors (I had wires that you could lay down to make your own circuits, and paint for fun (although it was used to block windows as well).  Also, the "decay" transition, which changes an objects state automatically, can let you do cool things as well.  For example, a pet that only moves every two steps, a tool that puts pets to sleep for only 1 turn, an EMP that turns off electronics for a couple of turns, etc.

Also, I'll see if I can get the main FT server up again- the web host might've deleted everything, though, so I can't promise much.

Edit: Yep, looks like they deleted everything.  I'll wait a bit to see if it just takes a while to bring everything back after flagging my account as inactive, but I'm pretty sure it's gone for good sad I'll think about starting another server, but I'm not sure if I'll have the time.

Last edited by iceman (2015-01-27 21:22:39)


Fortress Theory Mod - New objects, tools, and paintings!

I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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#13 2015-01-28 20:28:29

cullman
Member
Registered: 2014-03-21
Posts: 424

Re: death order?

@voxel - At the beginning I am planning to leave everything the same, pet movement, screen movement traps, etc, in the beginning.  Cylance has done an incredible job of creating like a tutorial level that wordlessly explains just about every weird thing in the game, all those tutorials will just be shipped right into the game and let you learn the game mechanics without any loss of life.

@iceman - Please don't fire up a server on my account, cause frankly, just a transfer of the ideas you like best (and are willing to share) is more than enough.  If you'd like to see a beta for TH for android or iOS let me know.  We should have the new graphics in shortly (unfortunately, my graphics guy and myself work at the same day job, which has been crushing us lately).

The one tile I think I would put in the beginning is a horizontal starting rotary switch.  I like the powered blinds idea a lot, I am wondering what tools defeat it.  Clearly a crow bar, would but it seems that there should be something cheaper that would over come powered blinds too, that is cheaper than a crow bar but more expensive than a brick.

Last edited by cullman (2015-01-28 20:30:55)

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#14 2015-01-30 08:05:05

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: death order?

Oh, I was mostly interested in restarting the server to let people play again, since some people seemed interested in playing.  I don't know if you know what new items were in FT, but there's a changelog here.

For powered blinds, I let clubs break it as well (I think normal windows can be broken by that as well).  I also added the Bucket o' Paint that could be thrown on a window to make it block vision.  As for disabling the powered blinds without breaking the window- I didn't have any way, other than cutting the power around it.

I also think the CAD (aka powered pitbulls) would be an interesting addition, although I think they really need a new tool to balance them.  How they worked originally was that water would basically turn them into a electric floor (sparks flying everywhere when it has power), and a torch would completely destroy it.  The balance to not being able to take it out at range was that you could just cut the power around a spot, retreat a bit, and then let it turn off itself.  However, like eppfel said, there was a way to set it up so that you couldn't do that safely- the only way to get past the magic dance in that house was the brute force the pits to the dog room.  That's one of the main reasons I added the EMP. For $800, you could stop the CAD for a single turn, letting you get close enough to water or torch it.

I liked the role of the poison gas canisters, but not how they worked (not sure if that makes sense).  How it worked is that it killed you if you stepped beside it while it was powered (there was also fake poison gas, but that didn't work out too well), but it had to be powered from two directions.  Since it could kill you on an empty tile, it's role was to be another wife protection tool (while also letting you protect your safe).  The problem was that there was no ranged way to destroy it- if it were on, you had to cut the power, which might be on the other side of it, so you'd have to tunnel through a bunch of concrete to get past it.  I actually think that the EMP would've fixed the problems I had with it, though- there just wasn't enough time to see its effect.  The EMP would disable it for 2 steps, letting you get past it safely (but you wouldn't be able to return), or give you a safe way to use your torch or explosives to destroy it.

If you'd also like a laundry list of ideas I had but never got around to implementing, here's a few:
Chihuahua that provides power (trapdoors are safe, grids are not, can't get by powered doors)
Slow pets (move every 2 steps)
Poisonous pets/traps* (cheaper than similar objects, kill you after a certain number of turns instead, there are items and objects to counteract poison)
Pets/traps that blind you* (everything is black, or very reduced vision)
Pets that block movement
Tiles that pets can move through, but you can't

*Not as simple as the rest to implement, and probably the least "different" tiles


Fortress Theory Mod - New objects, tools, and paintings!

I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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#15 2015-01-30 08:22:40

JAAM
Member
Registered: 2014-11-22
Posts: 299

Re: death order?

I always thought a one way vision tile would be fun. but odds are it would be extremely overpowered and cause too many problems, Perhaps if it was marked or something like mirrored one way glass. at least you would know something is up then.


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