Henson Robbed!!!

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-01 10:48:42

I've done it!!!

Henson robbed!

It can be done...

That being said, after analysis.. I got somewhat lucky. I also think that is probably the BEST possible design, the best I've ever seen... much better than my own combo lock clock design in just about every way. Also, much better than I actually assumed it was. What threw me off was that the vault was NOT in the upper or lower right; therefore, it could be anywhere in the power door grid.

I could be wrong, but after seeing how the front works, without completely understanding the dance, I can at least understand the concept. The entrance is designed like a intrusion detection system. The chiwawa prevents the robber from moving up or down. If you happen to step up or down, the cat runs into the bunker. I believe that a double paradox circuit is used to power the door that blocks the cat- or possibly a signal is used to maintain power to the door. The reason is that if you cut the electric floor while unpowered, it opens the door- which essentially sets the map into brute force mode. The only thing you can possibly do is dance on the electric floor and hope that you get it right- which you probably won't because it at least somewhat, if not extremely, complex.

It is a much different design of any other house. Basically, the front is an intrusion detection system with the majority of the map being a grid of cell cat bunkers. I've seen this technique before but never with so many powered doors. Also, all other parts of the map revolve around the entrance which has a priority dedicated towards detecting when the robber uses tools or deviates from the dance.

I assumed that the vault would be at top or bottom right through a series of cat bunkers. After getting to the top and bottom right, I thought I had messed up and lost all my money. For no particular reason I thought to start knocking doors down and I found the wife. This was really the flaw in the whole thing. If I had not found the wife it would have been very unlikely that I got the vault. Basically, beyond the first part is a huge grid of powered-door cat bunkers. The vault could be anywhere in that grid and therefore the worse case senario is that you have to break into each grid cell to find the vault. That could be VERY expensive. For some odd reason I was able to step up to her without her grabbing the gun. This was a huge risk to me as if she stepped onto the shotgun I would have been killed and henson would have received the bounty. As a result, I took 120k from her and then when I left the state was "saved". This is the flaw in the design that allowed me to rob the vault, because I opened doors straight back, causing the cat to run this way, the cat didn't close the original path. Because I had saved the state, the cat no longer ran down the corridor right and followed my path, leaving the path to the vault completely open. This way I was able to return on a 2nd trip and follow the path to the vault. In other words, because I broke the cat bunker path and saved the state, the vault path powered doors remained open.

I'm going to go ahead and share my map- minus the combination. Actually, it is nothing useful to a robber because it does not technically give any more useful information to a robber than what can be gathered from a tool-less death run.

http://castledraft.com/editor/28YFCx

Interesting thing here is that- no matter what, if you enter the clock floor- you are trapped and must know the combination or you will die. Only one combination can be tried each run. Given there is only 256 combinations, it is just a matter of time before somebody guesses it! It is also a very effective killer and typically retains a large number of tools. It is designed to always cost the same to brute force it no matter which way you go. It is impervious to all the weaknesses that plague other combo lock maps. It is a single puzzle that is backed up by numerous layers of protection- something that was thought impossible in the game and promoted a multi-modular design. Although this is all true, it is much more costly to defeat henson, and any robber with around 30,000 should easily get to my vault.

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2015-08-01 12:52:46)

Passive · 2015-08-01 12:49:22

Congratulations. I had enough map to know the bunker situation, and had gone far enough to know it wasn't in the corners. Even with the full map of the entrance i still couldn't get the dance working. It is/was a very good design and it ate a lot of my money with me trying to brute force it

Also nice design on the combo lock. However like you say it would not be able to hold it's value as much as Henson (Think could get to the vault in 31k as a rough guesstimate). I think if you hadn't shared the map might of done a bit better as every scout you would only be able to get so far, where as now it would be an easy route (unless it is a bluff )

Last edited by Passive (2015-08-01 12:55:37)

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-01 13:01:28

Well, a suicide scout can basically see the cheapest path to the vault anyays- so I'm not sure it matters. Yeah it was pretty apparent to me early on that it can't hold money the same way hensons house can. Maybe a house that combines both concepts, a binary clock with a magic dance that leads into a grid of powered door cat bunkers would be better?

I don't think my current house has any 'design' flaws per say. It is pretty honest to the owner and the robber about what it does. As far as I know, there is no way to exploit it to spend less money. It is either you get the combination or you spend a lot of money- those are the only two ways to do it. That is pretty much the same as henson, except I think the likely hood of guessing the dance is much lower and the cost to brute force is substantially more. The only reason it only cost me about 40K is I had gotten lucky and found the wife AND had crowbared so many doors- which messed up the cat. If I had not found the wife it could have easily cost 100k to find the correct cat path.

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2015-08-01 14:20:50)

mala · 2015-08-01 15:30:01

nice job man, very nice job. i thought that would have last forever without proper founds

great design with the clock, you've managed to keep it compact and functional. The only problem as you've pointed out is the fact that a single suicide run is needed in order to known the exact vault location, and that means a lot in this game.

now i demand Hanson design. Is JWG willing to share it, since it has been mapped out? i've got the whole front + lower circuit, and i'm curious about the rest

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-01 20:42:57

Yeah it would be awesome to see the design; however, a few things- first... the design is basically two parts. First a lock and then behind that a giant grid of cat locked powered doors. It looks like the vault can go ANYWHERE In the grid, in theory. I havn't really tried this technique in any maps before so I'm not sure how many grid cells you can use? It took me about 50k in tools to check both the far corners, so I imagine you can blow through 100k easily just looking for the vault. wife or kids are a serious weakness here and is the ONLY reason I was able to get the vault.

joshwithguitar · 2015-08-01 22:14:29

Congrats GABT, yeah my wife was certainly a major weakness there.

Mr Young was a bit lucky that I was too busy to rob his place yesterday...

I won't be giving up the design just yet though as no-one has figured out my dance yet and even having a general idea about how my house works it is going to cost a lot to brute force.

Passive · 2015-08-02 08:03:58

joshwithguitar wrote:

Congrats GABT, yeah my wife was certainly a major weakness there.
Mr Young was a bit lucky that I was too busy to rob his place yesterday...
I won't be giving up the design just yet though as no-one has figured out my dance yet and even having a general idea about how my house works it is going to cost a lot to brute force.

Glad you are not giving up the design I am trying to get some funds together so that I can start my onslaught again

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-02 12:34:11

So does that mean I am the first to have ever legit robbed the original micheal elbert price design?

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2015-08-02 12:34:48)

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-02 15:51:03

lmao this game...

I went back into henson to try to map out the front lock area and WHY did I step on the dog....

Sometimes my brain just doesn't register the dogs. Oh well, at least the paintings are back to the market.

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2015-08-02 15:52:15)

joshwithguitar · 2015-08-02 17:33:20

GotABigTrap wrote:

lmao this game...
I went back into henson to try to map out the front lock area and WHY did I step on the dog....
Sometimes my brain just doesn't register the dogs. Oh well, at least the paintings are back to the market.

Oh wow, and suddenly I'm back on top. RIP Mr Young. Your bounty was $19800.

I like to think that Cynthia's ghost was haunting Young and temporarily clouded his mind causing him to misstep onto the sleeping dog.

Ruined my plan of reclaiming what was mine, but still, it is pretty good revenge .

GotABigTrap wrote:

So does that mean I am the first to have ever legit robbed the original micheal elbert price design?

Technically yes, but Ukuko did suicide next to my vault at one time when I rebuilt the house and failed to adequately change my dance. Since then the dance has become a lot more sophisticated though . It will be interesting to see if anyone can figure it out.

Last edited by joshwithguitar (2015-08-02 17:49:04)

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-02 18:33:04

haha its all very true, but the whole experience has allowed me to come up with a new technique to incorporate into my design. My pre-emptive attack on henson was a failure, but if I had not done it, I was doomed anyways. The only hope at complete victory rests on figuring out that damn dance! But it is true in my reincarnation I have found a new secret.

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2015-08-02 18:34:52)

mala · 2015-08-02 20:02:46

doesn't matters if there's just 2-3 players playing... this game will always keep amazing me...

kudos @Jason for designing the most intelligent and challenging game i've ever played in my life (and god knows i've played lots of games )

mala · 2015-08-03 17:27:32

seems like i've almost solved the circuit, i can now safely reach the chihuahua.

now to solve it completely i have to understand how the upper part does work

Last edited by mala (2015-08-03 17:27:45)

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-03 19:55:01

Soon my new house will be up!!! I spent some time today doing testing to see if the trick will would work and it seems to. I wasn't completely sure if there is an exploit to get by it (that's why I had to do testing). The initial house will be pretty fairly primitive but should still be a decent house in theory. This way I should be able to create a house that can compete with Henson.

In a way it will combine both of the concepts, a tool-less map entry with a grid of cat bunkers; however, I have an interesting electronic solution to the cat lockdown procedures.

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2015-08-03 20:04:20)

mala · 2015-08-04 10:51:27

goddam i'm stupid, i've robbed a 10k house, brought everything to Hanson to scout the upper part, and i've killed myself on the 3rd step like a noob.

Enjoy the stuff JWG

Passive · 2015-08-04 11:03:10

Was it Younts that you robber? He was climbing the ranks but has vanished, I was interested to see how far it would get with it being his first proper house

Also I saw you came and popped your head into my place JWG, hopefully it's harder to crack than the last time, and I still have some changes to make when I get the time.

mala · 2015-08-04 14:31:27

Passive wrote:

Was it Younts that you robber? He was climbing the ranks but has vanished, I was interested to see how far it would get with it being his first proper house

yes, i reached the vault on my 2nd run, his wife was alive when i've left the place.

i'm so pissed off that i've wasted the money without getting any info

Passive · 2015-08-04 15:40:07

I am trying to get my house a bit safer so I can save some big money to take Henson down. But don't seem to have the time to make the improvements i want so am just throwing in random bits

joshwithguitar · 2015-08-04 16:59:29

mala wrote:

goddam i'm stupid, i've robbed a 10k house, brought everything to Hanson to scout the upper part, and i've killed myself on the 3rd step like a noob.
Enjoy the stuff JWG

Thanks . I set up that trap a while ago after someone came in with a load of tools and made the same assumptions you just did. I'm glad to see it has finally paid off. Though the aim was to catch someone with $50k of tool and a high bounty .

mala · 2015-08-04 18:16:58

joshwithguitar wrote:

mala wrote:
goddam i'm stupid, i've robbed a 10k house, brought everything to Hanson to scout the upper part, and i've killed myself on the 3rd step like a noob.
Enjoy the stuff JWG
Thanks . I set up that trap a while ago after someone came in with a load of tools and made the same assumptions you just did. I'm glad to see it has finally paid off. Though the aim was to catch someone with $50k of tool and a high bounty .

i remember doing that before, and i've reached the pit safely, so... maybe you did it because of me in the first place

joshwithguitar · 2015-08-05 05:53:30

Time for a few alterations .

Have fun.

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-05 20:55:49

First design of the new house is ready...

Due to the binary clock and alternating trap door/electric floor, you cannot use tools unless from the doormat. However, if you use a tool at the doormat, my security system will detect it and initiate lockdown! This does kind of steal an idea from JWG's map and then I incorporate some more clever electronics into it to detect if the player has used a ladder on the first move.

Did Jason have this in mind when he created the game?

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2015-08-05 21:03:05)

mala · 2015-08-06 07:16:47

GotABigTrap wrote:

First design of the new house is ready...
Due to the binary clock and alternating trap door/electric floor, you cannot use tools unless from the doormat. However, if you use a tool at the doormat, my security system will detect it and initiate lockdown! This does kind of steal an idea from JWG's map and then I incorporate some more clever electronics into it to detect if the player has used a ladder on the first move.
Did Jason have this in mind when he created the game?

probably not, but it's obviously a good solution against well funded robbers.

nice design, i'm inside right now, and i wonder... how do you detect the usage of the first ladder?

Last edited by mala (2015-08-06 07:22:01)

Passive · 2015-08-06 10:03:52

I have not been in the house but I would guess the use of a ladder would put the first cat out of sync with the clock? If not I have just had a great idea lol.

GotABigTrap · 2015-08-06 14:20:17

mala wrote:

GotABigTrap wrote:
First design of the new house is ready...
Due to the binary clock and alternating trap door/electric floor, you cannot use tools unless from the doormat. However, if you use a tool at the doormat, my security system will detect it and initiate lockdown! This does kind of steal an idea from JWG's map and then I incorporate some more clever electronics into it to detect if the player has used a ladder on the first move.
Did Jason have this in mind when he created the game?
probably not, but it's obviously a good solution against well funded robbers.
nice design, i'm inside right now, and i wonder... how do you detect the usage of the first ladder?

Its pretty simplistic, just rig the cat to send a 1 time only pulse, if the clock is out of sync, the pulse never activates the battery that powers the door. By the time you can do anything with tools to close the door, the cat would already be through.

As far as I can tell, if you set the front up right the only tool that can be used is 1 ladder. The only way you could by pass it is if you can somehow figure out a way to use 2 tools from the doorstop.

Using a pulse instead of power on is better because it protects against using a tool twice on step 1.

Last edited by GotABigTrap (2015-08-06 15:28:32)

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Henson Robbed!!!

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