Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

Laffinty · 2013-06-12 10:48:42

jere wrote:

THIS is a smart suggestion... if the client only knows what the player can see, cheating is rendered rather useless...
We talked about this before: http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … php?id=290
I suggested removing blueprints (for some houses) and, ideally, switching to a system where you pinged the server on each turn. That's the only way to do what you're describing. Instead of just submitting your moves once done with a robbery, you'd have to do an HTTP request for every single move... potentially hundreds of requests. Then the server has to load your map into memory (or keep it there the whole robbery) and process a single turn. Not only is this a huge amount of overhead, but it actually might introduce a little bit of lag. In most games you can do some sort of approximation while waiting for the server response, but here when you move into a new tile, you have to wait for the server to know what you're going to see.
I'd really like to see that stuff implemented because I think blueprints are central to the future of this game, but it's no small change.

You have to send something to the server, yup. Noone said it has to stay with HTTP requests
Could use TCP or a WebSocket

Last edited by Laffinty (2013-06-12 10:51:56)

jere · 2013-06-12 11:07:42

Sure. Jason seemed hesitant to change the architecture that drastically though.

It's open source, so you can always rewrite it if you want! Unless I'm forgetting about some licensing issue or something.

Last edited by jere (2013-06-12 11:08:25)

Laffinty · 2013-06-12 11:27:16

Its open source?

jere · 2013-06-12 11:34:31

According to this page, yes.

bey bey · 2013-06-12 11:53:35

Oh yeah, I recall the issue. I'm no programmer, and certainly not a single-handedly-MMO-creating-genius, so I'll leave that for the other people to figure out. But I also had some cases of people instantly "knowing" how to walk around a difficult house back in v5 and it's probably better to tackle cheating issues directly (even though it is difficult) than to create this imbalance that would prove horribly frustrating with only 2 or 3 cheaters around.

One might try other ways of protecting against cheaters but the client only knowing what the person can see would be by far the most elegant solution I wager even though that would basically mean that all games would be running on the server instead of the client. At this point, one could just make it a browser game.

Hurgh, I am out of my league here...

Last edited by bey bey (2013-06-12 11:54:48)

Laffinty · 2013-06-12 11:59:34

Ahh, totally missed that you can DL the source, heh.

Matrix · 2013-06-12 12:00:58

Laffinty wrote:

Its open source?

Yes it's open source and not copyrighted in any way. There is also a no_copyright.txt file in the base folder.

In other words you can do whatever you want with no permission and no restrictions both on the client and server side.

largestherb · 2013-06-12 12:05:34

Matrix wrote:

Laffinty wrote:
Its open source?
Yes it's open source and not copyrighted in any way. There is also a no_copyright.txt file in the base folder.
In other words you can do whatever you want with no permission and no restrictions both on the client and server side.

well, you can do whatever you want that doesn't enable you to cheat on the main server!

jere · 2013-06-12 12:10:57

If one were evil, one might convert TCD into a free to play game with a heavy focus on tool and tile micro-transactions. Hats, bandanas, lamps, sofas, upgraded guns, biometrics... the possibilities are endless!

Seriously though, I'm hoping no one forks the game, at least until the player base is sufficiently massive.

Matrix · 2013-06-12 12:12:23

largestherb wrote:

Matrix wrote:
Laffinty wrote:
Its open source?
Yes it's open source and not copyrighted in any way. There is also a no_copyright.txt file in the base folder.
In other words you can do whatever you want with no permission and no restrictions both on the client and server side.
well, you can do whatever you want that doesn't enable you to cheat on the main server!

We are talking about game source, derivative works, distributions and possibly sales rights, not cheating.

jasonrohrer · 2013-06-12 15:19:48

Sorry folks, but full server-side game hosting (so that visibility is enforced) is way out of reach for me as something that I'd ever dream of tackling by myself. Keep in mind that it doesn't just involve the server doling out the maps piece-by-piece, but also simulating the entire house (as animals move around and electricity changes) so that when new areas of the map are finally revealed, they contain the correct, updated state.

Part of why I took on this project was because it was appropriately scoped.... since the game is totally asynchronous, the server and the protocol can be comparatively simple and affordable to maintain over the long term. The simplicity is also what allowed me to develop what I'm guessing is the world's first one-developer MMO in only a year or so.

Regarding visibility cheating through simple cut-and-paste from output, that will be full dealt with in v9 by eliminating such output.

Regarding visibility cheating through modded clients, consider the following download data from v8:

.
+----------+-------------------------------------+
| count(*) | file_name                           |
+----------+-------------------------------------+
|       30 | CastleDoctrine_v8_UnixSource.tar.gz |
|       48 | CastleDoctrine_v8_Windows.zip       |
|       64 | CastleDoctrine_v8_IntelMacOSX.dmg   |
|      203 | CastleDoctrine_v8_Windows.exe       |
+----------+-------------------------------------+

91% of players are playing on platforms where binaries are the most convenient option. Compiling modded clients is possible on Windows and Mac, but it's pretty difficult and out-of-reach. On Windows especially, the set-up process to get a build environment working is pretty hairy.

So, visibility cheating will never be widespread. When it happens, it is certainly much less harmful than the old walking-through-walls cheats. Essentially, in v9, you'll suspect someone of getting through your house with too few tools.

By the way, blueprints weren't added in response to visibility cheating. The were put in place to deal with houses that are impossible to solve without visibility cheating. Also, they don't fully quash visibility cheating, because blueprints only show a house's starting state,k whereas a modded client could show the hidden parts of a house's state as they change. Obviously, blueprints make robbing less tense and interesting in a number of ways.

Once blueprints are removed in v9, people who decide to engage in visibility cheating (i.e., still looking at blueprints) will only be robbing themselves!

The Castle Doctrine Forums

#51 2013-06-12 10:48:42

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#52 2013-06-12 11:07:42

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#53 2013-06-12 11:27:16

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#54 2013-06-12 11:34:31

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#55 2013-06-12 11:53:35

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#56 2013-06-12 11:59:34

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#57 2013-06-12 12:00:58

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#58 2013-06-12 12:05:34

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#59 2013-06-12 12:10:57

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#60 2013-06-12 12:12:23

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

#61 2013-06-12 15:19:48

Re: Thoughts from a Newbie who was truly looking forward to this game.

Board footer