Too much money in the game?

joshwithguitar · 2014-01-30 21:05:14

Now that there are so many players, I feel like there is too much money flowing around and it is making it way too easy to complete a house and rob the top players.

Yesterday I started with nothing and ended up with over $1,000,000 and a completed $100,000 house. There was nowhere to go from there except to watch as people tried out my house. All of that in one day. The only thing stopping me from robbing every house worth over $50k was time restraints. I was robbed of 1.2 million dollars today but am now back on top of the list. This is a stark change from the slow build up over time that I am used to and the game feels too easy from the point of view of an experienced player. It is still a lot of fun, but I think it could be scaled back and slowed down a little.

My suggestion:
1. Starting bounties reduced to $50 or $100:
2. Tool sale value reduced to 1/4 of original value
3. Small timer restricting robbing starter houses (based on time since beginning a new life, like there used to be a number of versions back).

The first is fairly straight forward and in line with previous changes.

The second will prevent too much money flowing in from suicide robbers holding tools. It won't stop the game from being flooded with saws but will stop players from selling these saws to build a dream house. It will also make chain robbing harder to calculate as tools in a house will be more hidden and contribute less to a houses value.

The third will restrict the amount you can earn through camping around the $2000 houses on the list and stop a lot of that early money flowing into the system. Even 1 or two minutes should lesson the amount of money as I'm sure many suicide attempts die within that time.

These changes should also make it easier for new players to survive as their houses will collect smaller bounties while they are away.

As these things alter they could be updated on the main website with a page indicating current bounty values, current chill times, sell prices etc. This could be put aside a general stats page for this like biggest robbery of the day, largest ever house value etc.

jere · 2014-01-30 21:16:41

Whoa whoa whoa. You have to realize there are tons of people on the steam forums claiming this game is way too difficult, has no strategy, is impossible for new players, is all random, etc.

I think bounties are the easiest way for new players to get money.

This is a skill based game and I'm not sure it's a problem if experienced players can make it to the top in a day. Maybe it's too easy to rob the top players. I mean... obviously that's how you got to 1.2 million. Ludicrosity went in and easily robbed the top page of houses simply by using a bunch of tools, including me. Maybe that needs to fixed (it would also slow down the end game somewhat), but I have no idea how.

iceman · 2014-01-30 21:22:05

I wonder if starting bounties even need to be in the game. I'm not sure players should be rewarded for robbers jumping into pits 3 steps from the door. The ones that are serious (at least in comparison =P) about robbing a house bring tools with them, which gives the houseowner some reward for tricking them.

As for #3, I definitely think one minute before they show up is a good idea. Like you said, most suicide robbers will die by then. On the other hand, the ones that are successful most likely took longer than a minute to rob, so they'll still most likely come back to a dead wife.

EDIT: Ok, I see Jere's point about bounties - maybe no starting bounty isn't such a good idea. I think the timer on starter houses is a good thing, though- a reason a lot of people complain about there being no strategy is that the game currently rewards you for pressing up and down arrows until a 2k house pops up.

Last edited by iceman (2014-01-30 21:36:53)

joshwithguitar · 2014-01-30 21:56:07

Jere: I think lowering starting bounties will make the game easier for new players as their houses will be easier to protect. What makes it impossible is that money is too easy to get making building big houses hard.

You have to remember that the game worked perfectly well before 100's of new players joined. The game has always been hard for new players and that is intentional.

jasonrohrer · 2014-01-30 22:41:40

Yeah, I already got rid of the $2000 empty houses by adding a 5 minute delay before a respawn house can ever show up on the list (whether it is built-out or not, but building usually takes more than 5 minutes, so then the house is listed instantly). That 5 minute value can be tweaked in the settings as-needed, but it seems to be a good value.

As for the other stuff... let's see how the no-farming thing pans out.

ALSO, Josh.... I'm sorry, but you just have gotten too good at the game. By the way... why didn't you win the contest? :-)

jasonrohrer · 2014-01-30 22:49:06

Oh, and I just realize that while the resale rate IS tweakable on the server, it is not passed from the server to the client... so I'd need to release v32 before tweaking the resale rate.

joshwithguitar · 2014-01-30 23:10:49

Restricting $2000 easy money should help a lot - what I'd be interested in is statistics on how much new money comes into the game through the starting $2000 vs bounties. Also how much money leaves the game through tool use vs building vs deaths.

jasonrohrer wrote:

ALSO, Josh.... I'm sorry, but you just have gotten too good at the game. By the way... why didn't you win the contest? :-)

When I was at the top of the game I died when I accidentally double tapped a key in a house full of electric floors. I really should have been playing in safe touch mode but the time limits had made me want to do it faster. I rebuilt and was ready to take on the top houses again but was a bit rushed and died the morning of the contest whilst trying to rob Mr Thomas (over here it ended 12pm on the 28th). From that point on I really had no chance - I was able to make 70k but my poor house defence led me to lose half of it and I spent the other half on a last ditch effort at a top house only to find sirens had been lowered to 5 mins while in the house.

ukuko · 2014-01-31 00:31:52

Josh, how did you get to $1,000,000 so quickly? Mostly bounties/tools or through robbing others?

joshwithguitar · 2014-01-31 01:20:56

Robbing, mostly. Started off getting some free $1000's then climbed my way up. Then I took out one of the top houses and had around 150k, most of which I spent on building my house.

I then I took out the top 10 or so players. Most of them for much less money than they had.

I did spend a lot of time playing yesterday, but that is the only real restriction on becoming huge at the moment - time. Right now I could probably take out the top 40 houses if I planned to stay up all night. I've not had to give up on a house yet, and generally get through on the first non-scouting attempt

ukuko · 2014-01-31 01:46:55

So do you think the problem is that it's too easy for one player to take everyone else out? Because I'm not sure it's so much the quantity of money in the economy that makes it easier to do that, rather that there are now a lot of mid-tier houses (ranking wise) that are easier to break into than we're used to.

I'm sure that the supply of easier money will dry up when new players get wise to the meta game.

Perhaps there needs to be some mechanic to up the ante for those at the top of the leaderboard. I mean, if you had millions of dollars and had taken out several other rich robbers, you'd be expecting gangs at the door, not solitary hobby-robbers!

Last edited by ukuko (2014-01-31 01:47:25)

joshwithguitar · 2014-01-31 02:02:14

Well, I did make over $200k in bounties over night and my house survived a couple of very expensive attempts. Overall 246 people died in my house that night. The anti is already up - basically any of the top 8 houses has enough money to rob any of the others. That I can survive so long is a big surprise to me.

The problem for me is just that it all happens too fast. Making 1 million dollars should be something to work towards over a few days if not weeks, not within 24 hours.

ukuko · 2014-01-31 02:14:13

Surely everyone has chills on your house by now!

radynom · 2014-01-31 02:34:56

I think it should be the bounty gain that is decreased instead of the starting bounty. Someone with high bounty is unlikely to look at low level houses. So they usually die in a rich house, making the rich even richer.

Cent · 2014-01-31 03:03:25

Lmao, I wonder if there can be an elitist alpha vet club or something. The amount of crying from new steam players is insane, meanwhile, my house is raking in so much money I can barely keep up. Such a nightmare to balance. It's like some kind of horrific grindhouse if you keep your house at around 5-10kish, because respawn players dump themselves at your feet with pitiful 2k tools trying to break your 50k+ puzzle house.

Last edited by Cent (2014-01-31 03:04:40)

Kel · 2014-01-31 03:30:30

Imho, unlimited tools is the problem in the balancing. Being rich enough enables you to just break any and all defense and thus any and all risk to loose everything

SmokestormX · 2014-01-31 03:50:19

Well I woke up this morning , checked my house , it apparently sky rocketed to the #2 spot from $25k overnight and promptly got robbed by the #1 guy (one of you no doubt).

And whilst I do see there is a lot of money I think you just got to wait it out until the new people learn.
I look at my security tapes and there are a lot of new players falling for really simple shit, they are just learning and as they learn they will die less and less money will be distributed.

Blip · 2014-01-31 08:54:08

The problem is the influx of new players who don't really know what they're doing. All their money is simply flowing to the rich veterans, and then sitting there behind good traps until they're brute forced by other vets.

jere · 2014-01-31 09:26:12

I'll take my suggestion to a new thread.

Last edited by jere (2014-01-31 09:34:26)

jasonrohrer · 2014-01-31 10:05:55

Hmmm.... it's a good problem to have, though, I think.

I'll know by the end of the day how the removal of easy $2000 houses changes "how much money is stolen" and all that. I can break it down per player, per robbery, etc.

protox13 · 2014-01-31 14:01:41

Kel wrote:

Imho, unlimited tools is the problem in the balancing. Being rich enough enables you to just break any and all defense and thus any and all risk to loose everything

Agree with Kel. There is no tension on the robber's part if they have enough tools to push through anything. Limiting the tools each trip will force them to learn the house layout and keep returning until they can find the safe path or an alternate route using a limited number of tools.

ZenRose · 2014-02-01 21:59:30

jasonrohrer wrote:

Hmmm.... it's a good problem to have, though, I think.
I'll know by the end of the day how the removal of easy $2000 houses changes "how much money is stolen" and all that. I can break it down per player, per robbery, etc.

Any data visualizations on the money flux in the game would be super cool to see. Even raw data sets would be sweet to have so that someone can make the data into beautiful pictures.

GoogleFrog · 2014-02-02 00:40:44

The money makes the game a lot 'faster' in some sense. I went to sleep with about 5k money in my vault (including tools). When I woke up 40 people had died in my house and someone had already brute forced the 50k which the failed robberies left behind. At a certain point it is easy to have your value dramatically increased beyond your ability to defend unless you pay attention.

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#1 2014-01-30 21:05:14

Too much money in the game?

#2 2014-01-30 21:16:41

Re: Too much money in the game?

#3 2014-01-30 21:22:05

Re: Too much money in the game?

#4 2014-01-30 21:56:07

Re: Too much money in the game?

#5 2014-01-30 22:41:40

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#6 2014-01-30 22:49:06

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#7 2014-01-30 23:10:49

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