failsafe help request

mala · 2014-02-14 21:28:59

Hi guys, can someone help me with understanding how to build a failsafe circuit?

i'm not getting how to use the paradox circuit, and how to properly connect stuff to it.
Right now there are very few tutorials about this game and i'm still fighting over some logic gates

This one... really too hard to understand by myself.

Thank you very much

joshwithguitar · 2014-02-14 22:01:31

What do you mean by "failsafe circuit"? If you let me know what you are attempting I should be able to help.

mala · 2014-02-14 22:33:10

joshwithguitar wrote:

What do you mean by "failsafe circuit"? If you let me know what you are attempting I should be able to help.

i'm trying to divide my house into compartments, each sector will be separate from the next one with 3 layer of wall (concrete - wired wall - concrete),
that way if you skip trough by breaking the walls, you break the internal circuit and everything stops working.

How the hell do i make it work? i would need a couple of visual example, like those you made for clocks.
btw the work you and your brother did with the clocks is amazing, thanks to you i'm slowly building my own (and slowly trying to figure out how to properly set up traps with it )

ty

Last edited by mala (2014-02-14 22:34:52)

Pandamonium · 2014-02-14 23:06:31

mala wrote:

i'm trying to divide my house into compartments, each sector will be separate from the next one with 3 layer of wall (concrete - wired wall - concrete),
that way if you skip trough by breaking the walls, you break the internal circuit and everything stops working.

These traps kill you when there IS power:

Electric Grid
Electric Door

These traps kill you when there ISN'T power:

Powered Pit

So if you want to make it hard to get to the next section without power you may want to do something like this:
I know I've exaggerated

HaterSkater · 2014-02-14 23:13:57

mala wrote:

how to build a failsafe circuit?

i dunno, turn on fantasy
basically you need to hide somewhere current called "main current" and wire some button-traps, door-dogs etc. to this current. bit locks of some kind also acceptable, if you actually want to hide your vault. i mean not necessarily simple ones, it can be a system with correct button dispersed through whole level, not single room. To force robber to cut wire off, connect trap to it. You can make it look like obvious path to your vault (which is actually fake), consult gents from "personal security psychology" thread http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … php?id=766. That's basics

BTW, my house from this thread http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … php?id=797 is failsafe if placed at lower left corner, so there is no way to get to bit lock without breaking wire wall. however you need to modify it, because cat will kill you as he killed me

Last edited by HaterSkater (2014-02-14 23:35:16)

joshwithguitar · 2014-02-15 00:00:53

There are some very simple and some much more complicated ways of doing what you are trying to achieve.

The most basic way is to have the wired walls powered and have the circuitry beyond them require that power - for instance you could have a bit lock later on that will supply power to a hall of pit traps with the right combination, but only if the power supply has not been cut - http://castledraft.com/editor/VMsSMm. It is also very simple to have it so that alternating power from a clock bit is passing through the wired walls and that once you cut them the only way past a hall of pit + electric floors is to brute force through.

Now, using paradox's to send signals is something you'll only really want to do if for some reason you want the circuitry to remain unpowered. An example of this might be if you want cutting some unpowered electric floors to trigger the fail-safe. I did this in Mr Prices house - cutting the electric floors at the start would instantly open the cat door letting the cat through. You can do this in lots of ways, one is to have it so the paradox provides half of the power required while a second out of phase paradox provides the other half. Here is an example:
http://castledraft.com/editor/7gbGFB

In this example there are two paradox generators - one in the top left that also acts as a trap, cutting the wire in front of you while standing on it will get you killed. The second is in the bottom right and is attached to a delay. The two paradox signals combined cause the trapdoors to be consistently powered but if you were to cut the electric wire half the signal would be cut and the trapdoors will open. Check out the Advanced Electronics section of the wiki for an explanation on how the components work.

Another option is to have one paradox circuit block a second delayed one - http://castledraft.com/editor/ydlfsO.
If the wire is cut the second will no longer be blocked and will now power a bit-storage unit that will close the electric doors in front of the vault.

I hope this helps, let me know if there is something more specific that you are after.

Last edited by joshwithguitar (2014-02-15 00:03:26)

Pandamonium · 2014-02-15 00:21:55

joshwithguitar wrote:

Another option is to have one paradox circuit block a second delayed one - http://castledraft.com/editor/ydlfsO.
If the wire is cut the second will no longer be blocked and will now power a bit-storage unit that will close the electric doors in front of the vault.
I hope this helps, let me know if there is something more specific that you are after.

I don't understand this part:

http://castledraft.com/editor/paw5Vb

what happens here?

joshwithguitar · 2014-02-15 00:35:45

That is a delayed paradox generator. The inverted voltage switch circuit creates a paradox signal and the voltage switch delays the signal by one cycle. This signal is usually blocked by the inverted switch to right but will get through if the wire is cut. It needs to be delayed because the inverted switch will only block the signal on cycles if it receives power in the preceding cycle from the other paradox.

JoyOfTrapping · 2014-02-15 01:51:55

AAHHHAHAHA HaterSkater that Doge picture is f***ing hilarious!! If someone made a Doge sprite pack I would totally play with it.

I laughed the hardest when I saw "wealth" at the bottom. ROFL. Or rather, Waelth.

Last edited by JoyOfTrapping (2014-02-15 01:52:40)

HaterSkater · 2014-02-15 07:30:42

JoyOfTrapping wrote:

AAHHHAHAHA HaterSkater that Doge picture is f***ing hilarious!! If someone made a Doge sprite pack I would totally play with it.
I laughed the hardest when I saw "wealth" at the bottom. ROFL. Or rather, Waelth.

Here you go

mala · 2014-02-15 10:14:05

joshwithguitar wrote:

There are some very simple and some much more complicated ways of doing what you are trying to achieve.
The most basic way is to have the wired walls powered and have the circuitry beyond them require that power - for instance you could have a bit lock later on that will supply power to a hall of pit traps with the right combination, but only if the power supply has not been cut - http://castledraft.com/editor/VMsSMm. It is also very simple to have it so that alternating power from a clock bit is passing through the wired walls and that once you cut them the only way past a hall of pit + electric floors is to brute force through.
Now, using paradox's to send signals is something you'll only really want to do if for some reason you want the circuitry to remain unpowered. An example of this might be if you want cutting some unpowered electric floors to trigger the fail-safe. I did this in Mr Prices house - cutting the electric floors at the start would instantly open the cat door letting the cat through. You can do this in lots of ways, one is to have it so the paradox provides half of the power required while a second out of phase paradox provides the other half. Here is an example:
http://castledraft.com/editor/7gbGFB
In this example there are two paradox generators - one in the top left that also acts as a trap, cutting the wire in front of you while standing on it will get you killed. The second is in the bottom right and is attached to a delay. The two paradox signals combined cause the trapdoors to be consistently powered but if you were to cut the electric wire half the signal would be cut and the trapdoors will open. Check out the Advanced Electronics section of the wiki for an explanation on how the components work.
Another option is to have one paradox circuit block a second delayed one - http://castledraft.com/editor/ydlfsO.
If the wire is cut the second will no longer be blocked and will now power a bit-storage unit that will close the electric doors in front of the vault.
I hope this helps, let me know if there is something more specific that you are after.

ty very much, still a bit confused about connecting traps to the clock, but you've been really helpful... again

Blip · 2014-02-15 11:33:08

I'm wondering... would a design like this function as indented? Because it seems like that would make a trap such that, once you step on the center electric floor, there's no way out even with tools.

joshwithguitar · 2014-02-15 17:26:39

Blip wrote:

I'm wondering... would a design like this function as indented? Because it seems like that would make a trap such that, once you step on the center electric floor, there's no way out even with tools.

This example won't work as you'll find that each paradox generator receives the signal of another without it having to pass through the centre. For instance, the signal from the bottom left feeds directly into the top right by running along the bottom and up the right. This makes sure that the top right will always receive alternating power and so will never produce full power.

It's a clever idea though, and I've come up with a solution:
http://castledraft.com/editor/XoaVru

Here if you cut to the left, right or bottom a inverted switch will be disconnected and feed full power through the top. To get full power to flow through if the top was cut was more tricky. The electronics for this are in the bottom left corner. When the top is cut all of the inverted switches lose power and so feed full power through, though this is unable to get through the top. So I created a system that would feed power through one of the other sides if and only if it receives full power, but give no signal otherwise.

The first voltage switch acts as a filter making sure only full power can flow through and blocking out the paradox signals. The second acts as a bit storage unit and the third a one way gate. So overall it will create continuous power if at any point it receives full power from the top and feed it through the bottom wall.

redxaxder · 2014-02-15 17:31:02

Blip wrote:

I'm wondering... would a design like this function as indented? Because it seems like that would make a trap such that, once you step on the center electric floor, there's no way out even with tools.

That won't work the way you want. Cutting the grates won't make the power activate because the inner oscillators (which everyone around here calls paradox circuits for some reason) are still connected to each others' inverted voltage gates. The outer oscillators don't do anything either.

Here's an example of the kind of thing you wanted to make: http://castledraft.com/editor/4S3pqM

When the current through the indicator lights is cut, the string of lights becomes powered from both sides. The switch is there so you can play with it in the house editor.

Last edited by redxaxder (2014-02-15 17:31:17)

Lord0fHam · 2014-02-16 00:50:41

Blip wrote:

I'm wondering... would a design like this function as indented? Because it seems like that would make a trap such that, once you step on the center electric floor, there's no way out even with tools.

wire cutters...

Pandamonium · 2014-02-16 00:53:46

Lord0fHam wrote:

Blip wrote:
Once you step on the center electric floor, there's no way out even with tools.
wire cutters...

Once you are in the middle electric floor, wirecutters won't help as there is quadruple redundancies in place.

mala · 2014-02-20 16:35:21

joshwithguitar wrote:

The most basic way is to have the wired walls powered and have the circuitry beyond them require that power - for instance you could have a bit lock later on that will supply power to a hall of pit traps with the right combination, but only if the power supply has not been cut - http://castledraft.com/editor/VMsSMm. It is also very simple to have it so that alternating power from a clock bit is passing through the wired walls and that once you cut them the only way past a hall of pit + electric floors is to brute force through.

that's exactly what i was looking for. when you cut trough walls everything will remain powered till bruteforce.

how do i connect that and the clock so that cutting will make full bruteforce necessary?

joshwithguitar · 2014-02-20 16:44:04

mala wrote:

how do i connect that and the clock so that cutting will make full bruteforce necessary?

The most simple way to do this is have it so that the alternating power from the clock runs through wooden walls in a similar way to the example I gave. As long the clock power is needed for the robber to pass trapdoors to get to the vault then cutting the wire should make the house "unsolvable" without brute-forcing.

mala · 2014-02-20 16:59:40

joshwithguitar wrote:

mala wrote:
how do i connect that and the clock so that cutting will make full bruteforce necessary?
The most simple way to do this is have it so that the alternating power from the clock runs through wooden walls in a similar way to the example I gave. As long the clock power is needed for the robber to pass trapdoors to get to the vault then cutting the wire should make the house "unsolvable" without brute-forcing.

actually the clock power is needed to grill the robbers, but if he cut trough the wall every grid will stay unpowered

MMaster · 2014-02-20 17:04:32

I came up with something like this in my old house:
http://castledraft.com/editor/iE3w4C

When you step on the bottom left electric floor it is hard to get out. If you cut the wall you will be fried from the side where dog is - because you will break paradox circuit which will then start powering the electric floors from the bottom right side through the wire bridge. If you cut the electric floor in front of you the electric floors behind you will not be activated but everything in front of you will be and once you move the dog will hit the button and activate even the electric floors from behind you. The dog also closes door in front of him so the robber really needs to get through all of the electric floors. It is quite hard to brute force and it costs only $1200. 90% of people died on this one.

Last edited by MMaster (2014-02-20 17:30:22)

joshwithguitar · 2014-02-20 17:32:46

mala wrote:

actually the clock power is needed to grill the robbers, but if he cut trough the wall every grid will stay unpowered

Well you can run power through the wall to an inverted switch that cuts power to the electric floors. Using wired floors the brute forcing cost will be fairly cheap though. One ladder costs as much as 18 water, so even if you have only one trapdoor and less than 17 electric floors it is better for it to default to "off" when cut.

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#1 2014-02-14 21:28:59

failsafe help request

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Re: failsafe help request

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#4 2014-02-14 23:06:31

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