Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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Just read an article linked from Kotaku where developer Cliff Harris makes a similar but less polished argument about the negative effect of sales.
The video is pretty solid. I think it conveys a lot of information about how the game actually works (kinda like a tutorial) while also expressing the special, sad, vengeful, frustrating, and triumphant thing that it is. And it's nice and short. With this video posted on Kotaku, I'm sure there will be many more people playing.
It makes me think you should consider doing some proper tutorial videos, cuz I like the style and it would be helpful for new players.
Also, hearing the music at the end of the video instantly makes me think of the game. It's been branded into my mind.
The "dead by christmas" anecdote is hilarious.. mostly because he didn't die.
I've also lamented dying during self-test, which has probably killed me more times than attempted robberies. Mr. Rohrer has indicated he likes it this way, so I don't see it going away.
The only way I can see it happening is when you fall in a pit or get fried by an electric floor or get mauled by a pitbull you just.... poof, start the test over like nothing happened?
Yes. To meet Mr. Rohrer's vision half-way, this "safe safe-test" mode might only be available temporarily when you start a new house. For example, it might only be available for the first 24 hours your house is alive. The messaging that appears during self-test would be updated to reflect this.
Yeah, I really liked the wake-up-with-water mechanic. Sad to see it go.
Lol I didn't even know this was possible and it's gone! Guess I've missed some release notes. I wish there was some other way to defend the family other than pitbulls. It just doesn't seem like enough (unless you have a ton of them). If family could be defended with other means, readding this mechanic might be justified.
I agree that having animals frozen during tool use doesn't feel as good as having them move.
I also agree with this. There is something odd about a bunch of tool use happening while the house is frozen in time. But I also appreciate the reason for the change.
Making tool use cause two (or more!) clock ticks would be a pretty big change. I have no idea whether it would improve the game, but it's an interesting suggestion.
I forgot that Mr. Rohrer changed drugged meat so that crowbars don't work on drugged animals anymore. In that case, the "dogs stay away from dead dogs" suggestion would be very helpful!
The "stay one square away from dead dogs" dog rule that has been suggested seems pointless because of $8 drugged meat. IMO drugged meat should have its range reduced to 1. With dogs not moving between tool use, it is a stupidly-effective foil to anything you try to do with dogs.
I can't get a house to survive the night. By the time I wake up in the morning, my house with a living wife will have made over $5000, which is more money than I have spent on my house up to that point. I am always robbed with family dead in the morning, house is broken, and no money for repairs. This makes the game very difficult to gain ground in right now, which I suspect contributes to the small number of available houses.
Turning off fog of war?! That would explain several mysterious robberies I've seen.
I'm in favor of sight-activation or distance-activation of pets. I love that pets trigger buttons and I think it is one of the core trap mechanics, but magic dances can make for very un-fun houses.
There is at least one way in which this change might also make your basic pitbull a bit stronger. Currently, dancing around in front of a door is a viable way to check if there is a dog that can path to you somewhere beyond the door. If there is, then you simply don't step through the door and you are safe from it with no tools used. If you have to see the dog before it activates, then doors become more ominous, since you cannot close them(strange), and opening the door may release a dog. This would allow a new kind of simple no-electronics dog trap.
Players rarely attempt to produce houses that look anything like real houses, so vanity home objects would be pretty out of place. There are obvious gameplay reasons why this is so (space is limited, point of game is to murder robbers, etc) Still, I like when players add stylistic elements to their houses, such as mausoleums. It makes them more interesting than a concrete wall leading to 20 trapdoors. Having additional gameplay-related objects which also could be used for vanity building would probably be ideal. For example, I already use doors and windows as vanity objects.
I love the idea of family triggering traps when they detect a robber.
My last house got around 100 kills over its lifetime (probably my best so far), but this stat is not visible anywhere. Currently the only way to find it is to break out a calculator and manually add up the values from the recordings. Obviously it didn't occur to me to do this before I died, which led to this request. But I also was thinking this stat could be displayed in the house browser alongside the scouts and kills-since-last-update stats.
Also, I'd be interested in other hidden account stats, such as how many times I've died during self-test or during a robbery, my highest house value, my biggest robbery, and how many total kills all my houses have gotten.
v10 is available for download.
On the download page there is a big red message which says:
PLEASE WAIT! v10 will be available shortly
jearr wrote:Does your family react to you during self-test as if you were a robber (ie, start fleeing?). I'm not sure how you could test your family pathing.
Yep! They do. You're dressed in your robber garb, screaming THIS IS NOT A DRILL!
Lol! Hopefully you're smart enough to use a bunch of chihuahuas during self-test though, which makes the whole scene a little surreal, with a masked father fleeing from a bunch of tiny dogs. In other news I still have problems spelling chihuahua.
I really liked FunnyMan's original suggestions about encouraging robbery-fun houses rather than unbreakable houses. I'm interested in the game design taking some steps in this direction, mostly just to move focus away from designing unbreakable houses. Mr. Rohrer has already done a lot of work trying to deal with unbreakables, but not like that. The abandonment of blueprints has made it a lot easier to go back to experimenting with simpler house designs rather than only trying to come up with the most complex/convoluted designs.
I have previously suggested letting dogs walk over corpses (pile-o-dogs!), but Mr. Rohrer doesn't want to encourage rooms of dogs (I still use them). I think that standing on corpses to protect yourself from pitbulls is a silly mechanic, and it is so widely used. I've also complained before about the significant monetary damage that you can do when you slaughter someone's dogs, but Mr. Rohrer's recent economy changes have made that much less of an issue (for the moment!).
I'm interested in Bey Bey's suggestion of using alternate paths and dog-distractions to better protect your family, but frankly I have no idea how to test such a thing. Does your family react to you during self-test as if you were a robber (ie, start fleeing?). I'm not sure how you could test your family pathing.
The increase in salary is huge. It definitely has encouraged me to login more. It also helps recover from robberies really quickly.
Designing a dungeon for someone to enjoy solving is very different to designing a dungeon to keep someone out.
There is little incentive to make your house fun to explore (even less with blueprints) when being robbed is so disastrous.
Suggestion: each successful robbery gives you a smaller percentage of the vault loot rather than half or all.
Suggestion: a limit on the number of times you can rob a house per day (or until the owner returns).
The goal of my suggestions is to make being robbed somewhat less disastrous, while also making it harder to be griefed. I would hope this might encourage house-builders to be more fun (particularly if blueprints are restricted).
I think the key to learning the game is to be OK with dying a lot...
This is absolutely the key. However.. it still sucks to lose all your work. Dying during self-test has been one of the biggest frustrations for me.
Restarting and getting a fresh $6k is the easiest thing to do in the game.
The increased starting money is a double-edged sword. It's great for making a house that has a chance of actually being defended. But it also more work to lose when you screw up.
I made a house. It got robbed after 2 scouts, my wife clubbed. I suck at Castle Doctrine since blueprints.
I relate to your frustration, and your experience is probably similar to many people when they start playing. Your house getting ransacked and wife murdered, not knowing what you're doing, dying on your own traps, trying to figure out how people's traps work - these are all hallmarks of the game. I seriously doubt anyone playing this game has not gotten pissed at it for one reason or another. If the gameplay isn't intriguing enough to repeatedly face that challenge, then yeah, you probably aren't gonna stick with it.
With the recent introduction of blueprints, home designs have been pushed more towards the electrician's schematic nightmare. However, now you can learn what the best houses are doing just by looking at the map, which you could not do previously. House designs used to be hidden, which gave newbies more room to experiment with misdirection, mazes, and decoys while also making the "best" houses impossible to defeat. Having access to maps doesn't reveal why stuff works, but it gives new players so much more information about house designs than was available before. Maybe it's too much information.
Deciphering blueprints and wiring schematics is maybe not your ideal robbery gameplay, but it demonstrates the kind of sophisticated custom traps available in this game. You describe it as "tedious" to figure out how people's traps works. You were maybe hoping for a more blackbox experience. If that's the case, I highly recommend Yahztee's single-player robbery game Trilby: The Art of Theft. It's free. It only involves robbery and trap-defeating rather than trap-building, though.
I'm excited to see the update!
My biggest concern about a reset is that it will reduce the total number of houses significantly. Only houses made by currently-active players will exist after v6. This will probably result in 90% fewer houses than there are now (just made up that number). Money is going to be tighter again and new houses are going to experience more robbery attempts. I'm assuming no economy changes in v6.
I'd still love to see npc houses.
I like the idea of building your own map rather than being given one. Your idea would actually add gameplay. Mr. Rohrer could maybe consider integrating with http://castlefortify.com/ and/or http://castlr.fonkle.com/ if fog of war was implemented.
Looking good! I hope they are cheap!
this game is constantly changing and play-styles are having to adapt and be constantly changed
True. TCD is an Alpha, and I support Mr. Rohrer in experimenting and making changes as he sees fit (even if I whine about it). He has made the game more cutthroat with this change, but I suspect it won't be the last time he modifies the economy.
Could we imagine some kind of “Non Player Characters” houses as a possible middle ground? These generated houses (automatically or submitted by users) could have a random amount of money (around $500 for example).
Aww yiss. I forgot to reply to this before. I like this a lot. I think it would be a good way to showcase house designs that are fun to explore, since they wouldn't have to protect a players' stash. It would also give players something to do other than rob children of their lunch money.
I recently started over (having died during a self-test of my 20k+ house). It has been very difficult to make money. When I log in, I have been robbed multiple times for tiny sums. By plugging the money hole from abandoned houses, my house with $132 is now deliciously appealing to robbers. This means starting out with a new house is even more difficult than it was.
Mr. Rohrer's "huge problem" was one of the biggest ways to make money in the game (next to fresh empty houses).. but it was also an important way to hide. Now there is no hiding. As soon as your house gets $1, your house appears five pages down from the top of the leaderboard.
Focusing on trying to rob the top houses and ignoring my own seems like the most appealing strategy now. It isn't very appealing though because most of the top houses are magic dances (except Lance Ronald Maynard, who has one of the most interesting houses I've ever seen). Once v6 maps come out and all the top houses are pillaged and burned, I'm not sure what will be left.
I like Bey Bey's suggestion about adopting a "murderer" avatar if you kill family. Very dramatic.
I've killed many wives in this game, but the current game practically begs you to do it.
My wife was clubbed for $31.