The Castle Doctrine Forums

tigey101

Member

Registered: 2014-04-07

Posts: 19

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

They should have a separate form for bitching about multi accounts.

MMaster

Member

Registered: 2014-02-12

Posts: 325

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Then I had a time where my house was locked out by Alec Sean Farley who in combination with JGA did this strange tag-team lock. During this time every click of 'return to house' that got denied refreshed the list that I had filtered to his account. I watched his money go from 2k, to 12k, to 60k, to 30k (I assume he grabbed items from his stock? Maybe had an account rob him back to take half?) in the span of literally minutes. I could do nothing, luckily this guy was not able to break too much of the surface, but then I realized the scope of the money he could pull in.

He basically was un-killable, only thing I could target was JGA which he had no investment in. He was only a front to attack me and take any heat he could get. ASF and his 30k that wasn't used to attack me dissipated. This annoys me so much, after two days of being stalked by this guy I gave up. It's not like my value was even that high, I was mid on the top 8 list. Not sure what he was doing but I'll be damned if it didn't ruin my fun. Being attacked by people you can defend from and attack back, that would be ok. Being targeted by someone you do not know, who can siphon his resources seemingly at a whim, who sends an alt to lock me out of my house while he sets up another account, that is not ok.

So I guess I was Farley, and I'm assuming that you're Mr. Black, as he was my final target late yesterday. Here's my part of the story.

After I suicided to put Kane's paintings back to auction, I was left with lots of chills on most stepping stone houses, so my chain robbing possibilities were limited. I managed to get one account up to a good chunk of cash, and ended up using the other as a bare minimum scout. I robbed somebody (don't remember who) and used my winnings to take down Case. The only other top house that I didn't have chills on was Black, and only with my wealthy account: Farley. Thus, I did a bunch of scouting of Black's place with Farley, then eventually began a larger robbery that nearly got the cops coming. As I was rushing to try and finish, after running out of drugged meat and being chased by a dog, I ran into a wall-dog in front of me. I had no option other than to die.

As for my rapid cash rise, that wasn't from any alt abuse, it was from successful robberies. And when my money dropped, it wasn't because I was transferring cash - it was because I had grabbed a bunch of tools for a robbery.  During the chain the took down Case, I only used my other account once, and as a suicide scout for the second house in the chain. I also was clearly not conspiring with eppfel, mostly because I robbed him for $100k.

Frankly, I don't see the problem here. Welkin was targeted by two different people, neither of us working together. It just so happened that two wealthy people targeted him at once! If anything, this shows the problem with this forum: two separate players get branded as cheaters for playing the game regularly. I was just chain robbing, and people assume that I was getting rich off bounty transfers, and that I was conspiring with JGA! Not a single person, other than eppfel who knew better, realized that. And nobody seems to be reading the truth here: AMWhy, cullman, TheRealCheese, and others are still claiming that what happened was due to alts.

I also realized this, but I didn't want to argue here. eppfel used his second (third) account to pump money to his own account so it doesn't matter for them if it hurt someone or not. Blip, you are also the one that has 2 accounts so you have no word here - they made everyone who has different view on it "pro-multiaccount" and therefore our words don't have any weight here. They have their own truth.

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Welkin

Member

Registered: 2014-02-07

Posts: 21

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Ok, this exploded from when I went to sleep until now.

To address everything I can, I guess it was a coincidence that JGA and ASG tag teamed me, both with multiple ladders that seemed to work in conjunction. The worst part is probably game design, the only way to get back into your house is to mash the 'Return to house' button. My suicide into JGA was mostly frustration cause I already gave up and if it was an account abuser who I could not see then I did not want them to get any of my tools or paintings.

You were poking your head in for 2 days, and my house was bare-bones, almost nothing in it from my total design as I only had 50k to work with, and wanted to keep the tools to attack top dogs, especially earl. Since it was bare-bones, I also kept a close eye on it, as at that point my house was so easy to brute force so every couple hours or so I'd log back in and see who would drop tools on me. JGA kept probing further and further, it would not be long until you committed hard, and my planned counter-measure was to attack first... which I could not do.

As for Murder she wrote, I asked my friend to 2k scout cause it was suspicious and I was curious what level of house was sitting at 1k, but dropped around 12k tools on me (in different increments) with no real sense of income. I thought maybe he had robbed someone and decided to chain rob, I wasn't going to assume the worst (there was only around 3 tooled pokes at that point and no ASG tag-team). I was hoping to get a sense of whether JGA was a wooden walled boss, or a front. My friend robbed with a 2k dive putting him at 1k wife money with slight damages, and his value was 6k later the same day so I knew he was being fed.

But when I was 'being robbed' right after a small JGA poke, I got worried. Kept hitting 'Return to house' and got bored, waited an hour, and the ASG basically poked past the commit gate and left, then JGA came in immediately after with a heavy set of tools that looked like he had got the information from the ASG poke (keep in mind this whole time I could not get into my house at all, nor could I plan my counter-attack as I had no clue who JGA or ASG really are). Was demoralizing and I gave up.

Maybe I'll start playing again sometime, but for now this multiple account hiding is really annoying me. I was ok with multiple account farming, as this game is rough to get set up, but my experience with ASG and JGA poking at me alternately, watching both their money increase while I'm locked out of my house, and I can't even attack them as they are alt-fronts... Was the worst feeling in the world.

Welkin

Member

Registered: 2014-02-07

Posts: 21

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

I guess the moral of this story is, I shouldn't have assumed ASG and JGA were working in conjunction, nor the money being both gained through multiple-account sources. If I only assumed they worked separate and ASG being a successful robber and not another account of JGA I would not have been so frustrated.

Also what I could have done is sold all my tools, upgraded my house, and then waited a while to rob again... but watching ASG's money grow as I hit 'Return to house' over and over hoping I'd get in before (what I assumed) JGA locking me out of my house for the ASG final blow...

tigey101

Member

Registered: 2014-04-07

Posts: 19

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

So are you going to continue to play Welkin?

Welkin

Member

Registered: 2014-02-07

Posts: 21

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Probably but I'll likely take a break, starting the game is a little rough. I'm really glad it wasn't as malicious as I thought it was.

MMaster

Member

Registered: 2014-02-12

Posts: 325

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Probably but I'll likely take a break, starting the game is a little rough. I'm really glad it wasn't as malicious as I thought it was.

These are the feelings that should go with the game. But as I said recent talks about dual accounting make people even more paranoid as they see cheating behind everything. It gets to a point where I feel like in Counter Strike matches where every other person shouted: "CHEATER!"

I'm really sorry that you had such horrific experience and I really hope that you will get back to the game soon!

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eppfel

Member

From: Germany

Registered: 2014-02-01

Posts: 325

Website

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Hey Welkin,

I just watched your screencast and I am really sorry, if you feel like I spoiled your game.

My friend robbed with a 2k dive putting him at 1k wife money with slight damages, and his value was 6k later the same day so I knew he was being fed.

As said before. I was not permanently feeding him, but once and this was my final attempt, where I poked quite deeply. I had all 3 accounts alive for over a week. I was also thinking, about the hidden money all of the three characters had with their bounties as in the thread discussed in Jason Thread right now. And to feed JGA was rather an decision of wanting to have an account to do 2k suicide scouts again.

Was demoralizing and I gave up.

Had that before and 3 seconds later you figure out a solution...

Was the worst feeling in the world.

I read some reviews of TCD and was shocked of the negative response. My thought was, they don't get the point of the game.
I might be a sadist, but this is why I play TCD. It is the emotions that it evokes, when your gut falls to center of the earth. ..and of course all the trickery/mind-games/puzzling.
That is why I don't understand all this people complaining about alts all the time.. Every house will fall. I begin to believe some of this dual account mob does not understand this as well.

To contain paranoia: I hereby declare, I will not work around chills, I will not block someone out of his house and I will not feed my robber with a bigger account.

All this has been said before. Maybe we can get back to being constructive: http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=2820

Cylence

Member

Registered: 2014-02-21

Posts: 346

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Hey Welkin,
I never catch you online, but I watch the recorded ones and it's always fun. You always show me new ways of looking at problems and I'm grateful. But also, you miss things and I'm always yelling at my computer, there might be a clock! oh no! don't go! Either way it's pretty awesome.

I don't think the money trace is something that can happen. However a simple 3 min window to allow owners to get in and change things should help when a lot of accounts (same or different user) are trying to get into your house. Basically after every attempt, the house cannot be attempted again for 3 mins allowing a user to return if needed.

Do you think being able to return and change things would have quelled your frustration?

---

Current Life: Mark John Perez
Prev Life: Ronald Michael Jensen
Burglary: Home Invasion 101
Building: House Design 101

Welkin

Member

Registered: 2014-02-07

Posts: 21

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Hey Welkin,
I never catch you online, but I watch the recorded ones and it's always fun. You always show me new ways of looking at problems and I'm grateful. But also, you miss things and I'm always yelling at my computer, there might be a clock! oh no! don't go! Either way it's pretty awesome.

Thanks! And yeah, I can be more careful, but mapping out a house while walking it sometimes you feel the pressure of time, and sometimes when thinking about what the player is doing you get caught up in expecting certain things in the house. I think the trickiest house will be the one with the most mind games and force you very subtly to not check for things. I also appreciate criticism so if I keep doing something wrong let me know, pm me on twitch, steam, or here!

I don't think the money trace is something that can happen. However a simple 3 min window to allow owners to get in and change things should help when a lot of accounts (same or different user) are trying to get into your house. Basically after every attempt, the house cannot be attempted again for 3 mins allowing a user to return if needed.

Do you think being able to return and change things would have quelled your frustration?

Very very very much so. I think that most of my paranoia came from being probed by someone multiple times, seeing him spring back from near destruction, and then being hit by what appeared to be a coordinated assault with lots of money flowing into it, all while being helpless to either spend my money or make changes to my house.

If I could get back into my house to grab tools or spend money by clicking a 'return to house when available' checkbox, which automatically pings the house to let me back in as long as I'm not 5 minutes idle that would be great. I even wrote a program that would click the return to house button then the ok button in an infinite loop while I had a movie playing.

Cylence

Member

Registered: 2014-02-21

Posts: 346

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

If I could get back into my house to grab tools or spend money by clicking a 'return to house when available' checkbox, which automatically pings the house to let me back in as long as I'm not 5 minutes idle that would be great.

I like this idea a lot, better than my 3 minute window. Just a simple, would you like to return home at the next available time checkbox, that supercedes any other visitor. This would allow people to get back into their homes even if a bunch of accounts are trying to rob him/her.

You should email this to Jason.

My biggest critique is for you to play around in self test more. I saw you finally did that when trying out the a dog dance, but you tested it with the dog one position off (i.e. it had to take a step towards you first as you went off to the right). Sometimes that one position matters =). Although since you're streaming, building it out will expose your house, so I'm not sure.

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Current Life: Mark John Perez
Prev Life: Ronald Michael Jensen
Burglary: Home Invasion 101
Building: House Design 101

Welkin

Member

Registered: 2014-02-07

Posts: 21

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Although since you're streaming, building it out will expose your house, so I'm not sure.

Not much of a worry anymore I think. When I first started I would get wrecked by random people with "Sniped" as their house... but now no one even got past my first Magic Dance without using ladders, and that info has been streamed multiple times.

Cylence

Member

Registered: 2014-02-21

Posts: 346

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Although since you're streaming, building it out will expose your house, so I'm not sure.

Not much of a worry anymore I think. When I first started I would get wrecked by random people with "Sniped" as their house... but now no one even got past my first Magic Dance without using ladders, and that info has been streamed multiple times.

Ah, that's good to hear. I usually just clear my front entrance, then draw a line of panic buttons around the area i want to play in. That way no stray dogs get me. For sight traps, I have to clear a lot though. After I'm done, I just exit with out vault test instead of hitting Undo.

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Current Life: Mark John Perez
Prev Life: Ronald Michael Jensen
Burglary: Home Invasion 101
Building: House Design 101

FreeLove

Member

Registered: 2014-02-24

Posts: 98

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

... Every house will fall.

Every house will fall. Every house will fall. EVERY HOUSE WILL FALL!!!!

This is exactly right, and exactly what I don't get about certain people who complain about dual account abuse (<- their words, not mine). I mean what exactly is the end-game? You get to the first page? Easy. Get the richest house? Also easy. Build an unbreakable house? Impossible.

In time, ALL HOUSES GET ROBBED. And almost all are highly susceptible to a few 2K tooled suicide runs (with the exception of combo locks, which fall like dominoes after your first score). So what's the point? Are you just going to quit because you can't achieve an irrational goal? Then who's fault is that?

The bounty issue sounds like a legitimate problem (as well as the house lockout, and btw the checkbox is a lovely idea), but the root cause of that is the bounty system being dated and in need of tweaking. All other 'issues' with dual-account users stem from the whining about others spending an extra $16 to get added enjoyment out of the same game. Yeah, shame on them!

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I only post because I care <3

StefanLindskog

Member

From: Oslo, Norway

Registered: 2014-02-22

Posts: 268

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

... Every house will fall.

Every house will fall. Every house will fall. EVERY HOUSE WILL FALL!!!!

This is exactly right, and exactly what I don't get about certain people who complain about dual account abuse (<- their words, not mine). I mean what exactly is the end-game? You get to the first page? Easy. Get the richest house? Also easy. Build an unbreakable house? Impossible.

In time, ALL HOUSES GET ROBBED. And almost all are highly susceptible to a few 2K tooled suicide runs (with the exception of combo locks, which fall like dominoes after your first score). So what's the point? Are you just going to quit because you can't achieve an irrational goal? Then who's fault is that?

The bounty issue sounds like a legitimate problem (as well as the house lockout, and btw the checkbox is a lovely idea), but the root cause of that is the bounty system being dated and in need of tweaking. All other 'issues' with dual-account users stem from the whining about others spending an extra $16 to get added enjoyment out of the same game. Yeah, shame on them!

This is a strawman argument, FreeLove. I'm avidly against dual and multiple accounts, and I do not expect to make an unbeatable house. When my houses become able to withstand serious beatings I start rooting for the robbers. You are putting words in the mouths of people that are against something you are for, or you are willing to accept. It's a questionable debating technique at best. Also, saying that getting on the first page or on the very top is easy is really arrogant. If it was easy, everyone would be there.

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Current life: Unknown

Rotary toggle switches... Sooooo sexy.

FreeLove

Member

Registered: 2014-02-24

Posts: 98

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Not true at all. Anybody can be the richest house for a few seconds, and by simply following the guide in Cylence's Home Invasion 101. Staying there for longer is harder.

But again, I ask, is that the ultimate goal? Longest standing house? Is that your goal?

It's not mine. It could be, and it may well be the goal of others, but the point is that there's no concrete endgame for everybody (what, steal all the paintings?). So how can dual-account users be 'ruining' the game? What is the game anyway?

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I only post because I care <3

StefanLindskog

Member

From: Oslo, Norway

Registered: 2014-02-22

Posts: 268

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

I'll tell you what my goal is, or rather what makes The Castle Doctrine fun for me. I'm sure everyone has their own angle on this, so you will find no ultimate goal or endgame that apply for everyone.

To me, constructing a house that repels robbers (both 2K'ers and established houseowners) without putting in a lot of brute force protection is at the core. I enjoy creating traps that isn't common, in order to confuse robbers. I utterly love to see robbers fall for my creations. I'm mostly a builder, but I also enjoy the odd robbery.

I'm not going to debate the dual/multiple account issue. That discussion is done as far as I'm concerned.

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Current life: Unknown

Rotary toggle switches... Sooooo sexy.

Blip

Member

Registered: 2013-05-07

Posts: 505

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

there's no concrete endgame for everybody (what, steal all the paintings?).

That's my plan, at least.

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Current life: Not dead, but I have no clue who I am
The Life and Times of Christopher Alvin Harris
Record: 149 Paintings!

FreeLove

Member

Registered: 2014-02-24

Posts: 98

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

That's funny. I wonder if a core divide between pro/anti- dual accounters is whether or not people value robbing or building houses more.

Personally, I love puzzling out people's houses using only 2K tools, and I rarely build a house (mostly, I just don't have the time).

Also, weren't you the guy that made the electric skull house? With like a kitty combo lock or something?

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I only post because I care <3

StefanLindskog

Member

From: Oslo, Norway

Registered: 2014-02-22

Posts: 268

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Also, weren't you the guy that made the electric skull house? With like a kitty combo lock or something?

Talking to me or Blip?

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Current life: Unknown

Rotary toggle switches... Sooooo sexy.

cullman

Member

Registered: 2014-03-21

Posts: 424

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

That's funny. I wonder if a core divide between pro/anti- dual accounters is whether or not people value robbing or building houses more.

Personally, I love puzzling out people's houses using only 2K tools, and I rarely build a house (mostly, I just don't have the time).

Also, weren't you the guy that made the electric skull house? With like a kitty combo lock or something?

So if you like robbing and don't even bother building a house, why need dual accounts?

cullman

Member

Registered: 2014-03-21

Posts: 424

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

I'll tell you what my goal is, or rather what makes The Castle Doctrine fun for me. I'm sure everyone has their own angle on this, so you will find no ultimate goal or endgame that apply for everyone.

To me, constructing a house that repels robbers (both 2K'ers and established houseowners) without putting in a lot of brute force protection is at the core. I enjoy creating traps that isn't common, in order to confuse robbers. I utterly love to see robbers fall for my creations. I'm mostly a builder, but I also enjoy the odd robbery.

I'm not going to debate the dual/multiple account issue. That discussion is done as far as I'm concerned.

I enjoy both robbing and house building.  I just want it to be a level playing field.  I want someone to have to risk everything they have to destroy everything I have.  That is the reason d'etre of the game, and Jason has said as much.

uncastlebar

Member

Registered: 2014-04-04

Posts: 35

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Its crazy.

One of the most honored people in this game quit because of fast raising multiaccount creepers.

And some wrote "oh no not the account abuse is the problem"

Cylence

Member

Registered: 2014-02-21

Posts: 346

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Hey Welkin,
Let me know if you email the idea about the checkbox or option to get back into your house when multiple people are fighting to get in. If you don't plan on it or respond, I will. We've got his attention for the bounty issue and I figure we'd want to get this one in as well.

Every house will fail.

Freelove,
Welkin didn't think his house was invincible. He just wanted to be able to spend some money by either changing his house or getting tools to rob someone (although he wouldn't be able to find the main account of his attackers). He already expressed that he could have taken it better if he didn't assume that. And we came up with an idea that would lessen his frustration. He's gonna take a break and may come back (I've heard him quit before, but he loves the game like us).

Being locked out of the house means you can't play the game, no matter what your goal is..
And I think it's pretty serious. I'm sure everyone here will complain if they can't get into their house all day.
It's frustrating and happens whether or not people have multiple accounts or not. Imagine 5 individual people with single accounts all trying to break your house. You'd have to somehow click faster than 4 of them.

---

Current Life: Mark John Perez
Prev Life: Ronald Michael Jensen
Burglary: Home Invasion 101
Building: House Design 101

Kimenzar

Member

Registered: 2014-02-04

Posts: 183

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Its crazy.

One of the most honored people in this game quit because of fast raising multiaccount creepers.

And some wrote "oh no not the account abuse is the problem"

Lets just say there are the dual accounts AND the dual account discussion and paranoia. I know my reaction then I think of a dual account attack. Get help of a friend to safe your house(hold the 15 minutes with a timer) or help you scout out the target enemy. Or try to change the house everytime, someone got in.

Being locked out of the house means you can't play the game, no matter what your goal is..
And I think it's pretty serious. I'm sure everyone here will complain if they can't get into their house all day.
It's frustrating and happens whether or not people have multiple accounts or not. Imagine 5 individual people with single accounts all trying to break your house. You'd have to somehow click faster than 4 of them.

I think that is a problem as well.

Last edited by Kimenzar (2014-04-15 16:33:15)