I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Welkin · 2014-04-15 19:14:49

I could write a lot but Cylence seems to hit the nail on the head for what my issue was, post paranoia. 2 accounts can be used to lock someone out of their house infinitely, so 1 person with 2 accounts can basically screw someone over and they have no way to stop it.

It's not about how the game is played, not about your mortality, not about your house vulnerabilities, not about scouting information, not about money that multiple accounts can bring in... It's the fact you can do nothing, nothing at all, if 2 accounts alternate robbing you (which I thought ASF and JGA were doing). This is the first time I posted about multiple-accounts being an issue, as I feel this is the first real issue that potentially ruins the game.

Cylence wrote:

Let me know if you email the idea about the checkbox or option to get back into your house when multiple people are fighting to get in. If you don't plan on it or respond, I will. We've got his attention for the bounty issue and I figure we'd want to get this one in as well.

I'll let you message Jason, I still feel a bit embarrassed about this melodramatic thread.

Cylence · 2014-04-15 19:33:22

Welkin wrote:

I'll let you message Jason, I still feel a bit embarrassed about this melodramatic thread.

I sent the email.
Don't feel too embarrassed.

This game does that to you. I think everyone here can understand loss. And they forget how they felt when it happened to them. There's plenty of people who b*tched when they had their first loss. And then there's all the people who b*tch about the people who b*tch. And then there's me who's b*tching about all the people who's b*tching about b*tches.

So to sum it up, I'm a b*tch, so don't be embarrassed, b*tch.

Cylence · 2014-04-18 14:21:38

Have been discussing the lockout issue with Jason, and the end result will be no change. The changes required are too large for something that is usually a low occurrence and is reportable. If you are being locked out of your account for 2 or more hours by the same robbers, you can report it and server logs should have a clear trail if you are being victimized.

Blackout · 2014-04-26 08:11:14

This game is so skewed against new players that it seems the only way they could ever get enough cash to build a house or rob a house is to have multiple accounts.
What is the policy on this? I am thinking of buying another account just to have a chance to build a house.... then use the other to rob and not worry so much. It's just more money for the creator of the game and I actually think it makes it more fair as as the game stands now it's a little elite section of builders and a few newbs who have no chance suck as myself. I actually think he should put an atm or wire transfer option into the game so you could have 'friend' accounts. Maybe only allow it if both have a house so you can't just keep suicideing foe money.

GotABigTrap · 2014-04-26 08:18:51

blackout,

people do it and there isn't any enforcement, but people notice blatant exploitation of it very quickly.

That being said, 2000 is enough to build something tricky, but you have to be smart about it. There was a 1000 house contest, search for it on the forums. These houses actually will do a decent job, but don't copy them exatly. The key is to keep like 1k money to attract some robbers who, like you, have only 2k starting money and they want to get a little more to start their house. These people will be more likely to take risks. The key is to fool these people. Your best bet is to do a magic dance to vault with a cat or chiwawa and keep the wife out of site, but put a dog on the path to the wife so if anybody sees the dog, it will be 2 spaces away. That way they need some extra tools just to get around that dog.

Shacklebolts · 2014-04-26 08:23:24

I've needed a second account in order to have a successful house. Been on the top page before even in one of my many previous life times, and only reason I am not still up there is because of self tests...the bane of my existences, lol.
But listen to got a big trap, and others, patience is really key here. Look into some trap designs on wiki, that's how I got started, and add in your own little twists and turns. There really isn't nothing more exciting than seeing someone bust into your home and dying on your traps.

Pohaku · 2014-04-26 08:37:18

Blackout, it does seem REALLY difficult when you're new. As a few people have said, you learn by robbing - or, more accurately, you learn by DYING while trying to rob. You will take a few steps in someone's house, think you're safe, and then - BAM - there's a powered door opened up behind you and you can't get out alive. Or you'll take a step around a corner, which causes a dog to see you and somehow beat you to the exit. The key is to look carefully at these traps that people have built, and figure out how to implement them yourself.

My house is currently at around $17,000. The total house has cost me probably about $30,000 or more to build. In total, I've had around 50 visitors, of which about 35 have died. But here's the thing - of those 35 dead people, 34 OF THEM have died in the first section of the house, the part that I built with my initial $2,000.

Beyond that, there are combo locks, corridors of death, magic dances, leaps of faith, multiple-choice deathtraps - but I could have just stuck my vault right outside the last door I built on my first $2,000 (where it was until I built up enough funds to build more) and out of 50 visitors, only one would have got to it and 34 would still be dead.

If I was starting over again now (which I did about three days ago) I'd build a wooden house which can catch out the odd scout, and carry out two types of robbery:

(1) Empty houses. If someone starts a new life and goes scouting, or they die, click 'start again' and then quit the game, their house will show up in the list as $2000 0/0. You can walk in, take the vault, then come back with a bat to take the other $1,000 from the wife.

(2) Broken houses. These are houses that have been abandoned, but still have dangers. Scouts die in them, and the vaults accumulate the bounties from those scouts. There is usually a way to get to the vault and 'harvest' this money with few or no tools. Use your new lives to scout these until you know the safe routes for one or two of them, then you can always check to see if there's anything to be taken when you have to start afresh. As a hint, I'd suggest Gillard's house. The way to the vault is risk free (or at least it was earlier today) so you can walk right to it.

Experiment with line of sight traps, and put things in positions that will catch out robbers when they take the step that shifts the screen up or down. Be patient.

tigerbalm immunity · 2014-04-27 09:03:20

blackout, i say buy a second account. the major issue with alt accounts previously was that killing family members raised one's bounty by $1000 each, allowing for easy bounty transfers. this has been fixed as murder nets only $200 each. this means alt accounts are really only useful as suicide scouts for richer, tougher houses. I think most owners of these houses would agree that it is fun being scouted, and without alt account scouts they would be bored with no fun tapes to view. this would allow you to build a house and continue to rob freely, which, honestly, sounds really, really nice.

StefanLindskog · 2014-04-27 14:01:53

I used to be veeery sceptical of dual accounts. The bounty fix has changed my mind. Now, I don't care, since you have to work harder to abuse the system. More dual accounts could lend some vitality to the game at this point.

cullman · 2014-04-27 16:48:23

StefanLindskog wrote:

I used to be veeery sceptical of dual accounts. The bounty fix has changed my mind. Now, I don't care, since you have to work harder to abuse the system. More dual accounts could lend some vitality to the game at this point.

Unfortunately, there are still techniques. I was playing around last night (trying to figure out how to plug all the holes in the ways to cheat with alts) with 2 accounts and was able to move 11k into my main from my alt in less than an hour.

tigerbalm immunity · 2014-04-27 17:22:00

cullman wrote:

StefanLindskog wrote:
I used to be veeery sceptical of dual accounts. The bounty fix has changed my mind. Now, I don't care, since you have to work harder to abuse the system. More dual accounts could lend some vitality to the game at this point.
Unfortunately, there are still techniques. I was playing around last night (trying to figure out how to plug all the holes in the ways to cheat with alts) with 2 accounts and was able to move 11k into my main from my alt in less than an hour.

how much of that $11k would disappear if $0 0 0 empty houses carry no vault or family bounty?

cullman · 2014-04-27 20:38:54

tigerbalm immunity wrote:

cullman wrote:
StefanLindskog wrote:
I used to be veeery sceptical of dual accounts. The bounty fix has changed my mind. Now, I don't care, since you have to work harder to abuse the system. More dual accounts could lend some vitality to the game at this point.
Unfortunately, there are still techniques. I was playing around last night (trying to figure out how to plug all the holes in the ways to cheat with alts) with 2 accounts and was able to move 11k into my main from my alt in less than an hour.

how much of that $11k would disappear if $0 0 0 empty houses carry no vault or family bounty?

None. That's not the technique, of the 11k only $1000 was bounty. I'm not sure I want to reveal the technique publicly there is an easy fix though.

Degen · 2014-04-27 23:28:09

I'm brand new to the game. Been playing about a week now.

This...

FreeLove wrote:

All other 'issues' with dual-account users stem from the whining about others spending an extra $16 to get added enjoyment out of the same game. Yeah, shame on them!

This smells like Pay2Win to me. There are the suckers like me who thought they were buying a game they had a chance to enjoy...and then there are the "Premium Players" who buy two or more accounts. While I have to sink the majority of my money into getting a house design going and then sit and wait, premium players have the luxury of robbing with no worry of loss. While I have to figure out some way to stop robbers with $4k worth of tools destroying my house for the $400 I have (yes, this happens a LOT, why I can't understand), Premium Players are able dump money into their primary account using their alt(s).

FreeLove, you say $16 dollars...why not $32? Or $64? Or $128? I think I could get a pretty robust house off the ground with an extra $7K every time I had to start over. And as I understand it, the chills go away after each significant renovation to a house, so in theory, the money could just keep pouring in.

And then I could use that house as a bank for one of my robber Alts, just cash out and buy $20K worth of tools, and then just wreck one house after another. Just brute forcing my way through anything I felt like.

It's not "cheating", it's just "pay2win".

...Or, the devs could ban people running multiple accounts. I think it is probably pretty easy to spot manually, but why not just automate the process? It could be like building a house trap in itself. IP banning...well that's just amature hour, frankly. An application running on a system has access to all sorts of identifying traits. I can think of 20 metric right of the top of my head that can identify a computer, any random five of which could be used to issue a multi-account ban. Shutting down all of their logins and forfeiting all of their purchases.

...Or, the dev could build in multiple accounts. Each game client could have 4 tabs - four different "John Q. Smith"'s, so to speak. That way, no one is deprived the advantage of multiple accounts, and the playing field is leveled in the other direction.

If neither of those options are pursued, then this game will continue to be pay2win. And pay2win games always die.

Last edited by Degen (2014-04-27 23:28:54)

cullman · 2014-04-28 06:12:50

Degen,

This topic has been discussed often. This is probably my favorite game ever. Unfortunately, the game as is has many weaknesses when it comes to preventing cheating. There are some simple things that could improve cheating and Jason has implemented some of them. Basically, if you want to play now you are on the honor system, and hope that other people don't abuse things too badly. Personally, I think the easiest way to stop dual abuse would give people one name (Jason does not like this idea as it doesn't jive with his vision for the game world), and then add a reporting and banning mechanism. Using things like IP address doesn't work, as it's easy to change your IP address with VPNs, mobile hotspots, etc. Though, I agree they should be recorded for analysis whether or not someone should be banned. I am thinking about doing a major rewrite, that would fix much if not all of these issues - however, it will probably be a few months out if I do it. Also, I agree, the amount of pro-cheating on this board is disgusting, and I believe both cheating and the pro-cheating nature of the board historically (way less lately) has contributed to the decline of the user base. The game is hard enough without people gaming the system. Also, guys like FreeLove are off base, Jason himself says he is anti dual account and that's not how the game is meant to be played.

One idea I had for the rewrite is this : Neighborhoods within the game. Similar to your tab idea. Different neighborhoods may have different rules (Hardest neighborhood would be the game as is today), easiest maybe gives you 2 extra lives for selftest only, maybe have less tiles and tools. Some neighborhoods could have different chill times for faster paced games. Anyway, I would let one account have 1 player per neighborhood. If people could play 6-7 different people in 6-7 different world's under one account that would allow people to be careful in some neighborhoods and reckless in others, to let them get better at learning to rob etc. Allow them to still play when they had a big expensive house, so people don't get bored and start abusing dual accounts in one world.

The Castle Doctrine Forums

#51 2014-04-15 19:14:49

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#52 2014-04-15 19:33:22

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#53 2014-04-18 14:21:38

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#54 2014-04-26 08:11:14

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#55 2014-04-26 08:18:51

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#56 2014-04-26 08:23:24

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#57 2014-04-26 08:37:18

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#58 2014-04-27 09:03:20

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#59 2014-04-27 14:01:53

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#60 2014-04-27 16:48:23

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#61 2014-04-27 17:22:00

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#62 2014-04-27 20:38:54

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#63 2014-04-27 23:28:09

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

#64 2014-04-28 06:12:50

Re: I quit as well & 'Multiple Accounts At Their Most Malicious'

Board footer