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#1 2014-02-19 19:20:50

Jabloko
Member
Registered: 2014-02-15
Posts: 52

Family

The way I see it, not only they are pointless, but you want them dead ASAP. I just had my daughter left when I went to bed, and some as***le drilled a big hole in my wall, killed her, than died, only to make everyone's job after him much easier.

My conclusion was that I want to shove them at the door, and hope that they die very soon. Once I have enough money to keep luring people in, I also want my wife dead, otherwise my evening safety is just compromised.

What I'm saying is, that the family is just plain bad for the owner, I don't think they were meant to be put right at the doorstep, and if somebody wanders in with 3 clubs, you shouldn't be  saying: ,,Thank god!"

Edit: In an ideal scenario, I would want someone to come in, kill all 3 of them, than proceed and try to reach the vault, only to die in the process. I think the family should be removed. Why? Because otherwise, more and more people will leave them at the doorstep, I already see this happening. But if Jason makes them more protect able, they will simply be put next to the vault, so again, pointless.

I think this game is cruel enough, the last thing I want to do is hope that my kids get killed.

Last edited by Jabloko (2014-02-19 19:31:23)

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#2 2014-02-19 19:36:26

mala
Member
Registered: 2014-02-10
Posts: 415

Re: Family

this issue has come up lots of time.

no top house has a family, actually not even the "middle class" has a family anymore.

when there are tutorials about keeping your wife on the doorstep with just 300$ to encourage killers... i think it's a sign there's something wrong with the current mechanic.


Current Incarnation: none
Previous Houses: Ticking Nightmare - Luna's Park - Hightower Mansion - Chang's Place

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#3 2014-02-19 19:39:59

jere
Member
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 540

Re: Family

no top house has a family, actually not even the "middle class" has a family anymore.

This is a strong claim and I have a hard time believing it. Half of the top 8 houses during the Steal Real Money contest had surviving families. This was only a few weeks ago....


Golden Krone Hotel - a vampire roguelike

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#4 2014-02-19 19:41:40

Jabloko
Member
Registered: 2014-02-15
Posts: 52

Re: Family

Thank god at least one person agrees big_smile. I was expecting veterans to throw stones at me and explain how it's very possible indeed to protect them. But the only possible protection is: Pit bull commitment trap+pit bull stack in front of them+shotgun. But that costs a lot of money, money that's better spent on protecting your vault.

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#5 2014-02-19 19:49:25

Jabloko
Member
Registered: 2014-02-15
Posts: 52

Re: Family

jere wrote:

no top house has a family, actually not even the "middle class" has a family anymore.

This is a strong claim and I have a hard time believing it. Half of the top 8 houses during the Steal Real Money contest had surviving families. This was only a few weeks ago....

I've just checked the top 8, one of them MAYBE has a family, and an other one at least had one, seeing that I saw dead pit bulls and shorted power sources (leaving him weakened overnight)

Last edited by Jabloko (2014-02-19 19:52:19)

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#6 2014-02-19 20:57:26

joshwithguitar
Member
Registered: 2013-07-28
Posts: 538

Re: Family

I took out a few top 8 houses recently and a number had alive wives - making it a lot easier for them to rebuild after my robbery. As Mr Price I kept my children alive. And now that there is less excess money floating around keeping your family alive is much easier.

My advice is to just give it a serious go. Start your house with at least one dog guarding the family. Buy a shotgun and a second dog soon after so that you are safe from $2000 murderers. Every time you update add a few more pitbulls. You will be quite grateful next time your vault is robbed and you still have $1k + left over to rebuild.

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#7 2014-02-19 21:11:46

42dustman
Member
Registered: 2014-01-20
Posts: 231

Re: Family

The family is underrated. You can make them safer than any vault will ever be by doing stuff like putting them in the middle of a phalanx of 300 pitbulls.


Self-testing is torture.

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#8 2014-02-19 22:03:06

Storm
Member
Registered: 2014-02-09
Posts: 101

Re: Family

most top houses who protect their family like to use that straight line of pitbulls down the edge of the map technique, its usually a dead giveaway if you see the beginning of it. go around to where you think the end is and cut through into their family.

Last edited by Storm (2014-02-19 22:05:55)

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#9 2014-02-19 22:39:07

protox13
Member
Registered: 2014-01-25
Posts: 111

Re: Family

I can proudly (?) say my family has never died before I succumbed to death by stupidity. Aside from the insurance factor I just like keeping them alive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpYgpF1bqQ

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#10 2014-02-20 01:59:37

Jabloko
Member
Registered: 2014-02-15
Posts: 52

Re: Family

I'm not convinced. Until your family is all dead you're never safe from $2000 robbers. My house was finally safe from those guys, only to get my daughter killed and mess the whole thing up.

The way I see it:
Working class: You can't afford their protection. When you have $2000, a shotgun or a pit bull is probably more than what your wife will be carrying.
Middle class: Now you can afford their protection, but you've also became a cheesy target for robbers, and you will have to split your money between guarding 2 separate routes. Not good.
Rich: You can absolutely stack a phalanx of pit bulls in front of them, but they are still more a liability than it's worth, and the "wife line" also takes up expensive space.

Also, I think this pit-bull thing is lame. They are the only protection for your family and well...that just sucks.

Before you can afford that pit-bull army, they are simply a liability, and if one of them gets killed, your safety is compromised. You will also have an open route which encourages scouts to explore, only to be forced to flee once they see your doggies, instead of poking their noses into a house where commitment traps await them after step 5 or something. You see my point?

Yes, it's possible to keep them alive if you're soaking rich, but not before. But before you become rich...I guess you're not rich? Which means they can be killed, which means they make your whole house unsafe and exploitable. And you still have to split your money between 2 separate paths.

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#11 2014-02-20 02:02:47

Jabloko
Member
Registered: 2014-02-15
Posts: 52

Re: Family

joshwithguitar wrote:

My advice is to just give it a serious go. Start your house with at least one dog guarding the family. Buy a shotgun and a second dog soon after so that you are safe from $2000 murderers. Every time you update add a few more pitbulls. You will be quite grateful next time your vault is robbed and you still have $1k + left over to rebuild.

That 320 will be all the money that makes my home worth nothing ($200).

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#12 2014-02-20 02:34:18

cbenny
Member
Registered: 2014-01-31
Posts: 46

Re: Family

In my first serious house design I used a spooked wife with a shotgun behind a door as a trap, but I was never able to get very rich with this design because as soon as I was over ~$3000 I would attract burglars with the tools to kill her.

In my second serious house design I pressed the entire family up against the door and hoped they'd die, but this required falling very low on funds to make it worth it and it is hard to rebuild after that.

This time around I have been trying to keep my family alive, but as a lot of you suggested I am doing this just by buying a ton of pit bulls and surrounding the family. That's pretty much the only thing I can think to do and its only a matter of time until I have enough money to make it worth buying enough guns/clubs to get to them.

The wife can be very useful, but I have never liked the two children. I toyed with the idea of having them set off a series of  panic buttons for a magic dance, but pets and clocks are much better at this without running the risk of permanently damaging your house.

---

Theoretically you could place your family in easily killable situations in order to strategically break your house. Maybe have a wife next to a panic button near the door that needs to be pushed in order to turn off all the traps. Then you could succeed in a self check and never log in again while some robber kills her and therefore makes your house unsolvable, (ooo, possibly making use of the Wireless Transmission Exploit to make it really unsolvable....) However I haven't tried this yet and probably won't. I have a tendency to keep checking in on and improving my house, and I wouldn't like having a house that required me to never play again in order to work.

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#13 2014-02-20 04:10:58

colorfusion
Member
Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 537

Re: Family

Jabloko wrote:

I'm not convinced. Until your family is all dead you're never safe from $2000 robbers. My house was finally safe from those guys, only to get my daughter killed and mess the whole thing up.

The way I see it:
Working class: You can't afford their protection. When you have $2000, a shotgun or a pit bull is probably more than what your wife will be carrying.
Middle class: Now you can afford their protection, but you've also became a cheesy target for robbers, and you will have to split your money between guarding 2 separate routes. Not good.
Rich: You can absolutely stack a phalanx of pit bulls in front of them, but they are still more a liability than it's worth, and the "wife line" also takes up expensive space.

Also, I think this pit-bull thing is lame. They are the only protection for your family and well...that just sucks.

Before you can afford that pit-bull army, they are simply a liability, and if one of them gets killed, your safety is compromised. You will also have an open route which encourages scouts to explore, only to be forced to flee once they see your doggies, instead of poking their noses into a house where commitment traps await them after step 5 or something. You see my point?

Yes, it's possible to keep them alive if you're soaking rich, but not before. But before you become rich...I guess you're not rich? Which means they can be killed, which means they make your whole house unsafe and exploitable. And you still have to split your money between 2 separate paths.

You can have them completely protected from $2000 worth of cash with ~$700 worth of defences, that's a lot easier than the vault. If you want to go the route of having your wife defended then yes you do need to give up money that you could have used on your vault, but it pays off when you've been robbed but still have a huge sum of cash to repair with.

I think they could be a bit more useful, but it's not too bad. I've had top house twice with my family alive, and they're really useful.

Last edited by colorfusion (2014-02-20 04:11:40)

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#14 2014-02-20 04:32:50

Jabloko
Member
Registered: 2014-02-15
Posts: 52

Re: Family

colorfusion wrote:

You can have them completely protected from $2000 worth of cash with ~$700 worth of defences, that's a lot easier than the vault. If you want to go the route of having your wife defended then yes you do need to give up money that you could have used on your vault, but it pays off when you've been robbed but still have a huge sum of cash to repair with.

I think they could be a bit more useful, but it's not too bad. I've had top house twice with my family alive, and they're really useful.

Care to explain how?

Commitment pitbull: 320
Shotgun/another pitbull: 320
Anything decent to protect your vault+walls, wires etc: 1000
Money left for bait: 380...which means no one will ever risk dying in your house.

And I can guarantee, some dick will dodge your wife (in case you're using a shotgun) to club your children on their way out, and we're back to where we're started, your safety is compromised.

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#15 2014-02-20 04:56:46

colorfusion
Member
Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 537

Re: Family

Jabloko wrote:
colorfusion wrote:

You can have them completely protected from $2000 worth of cash with ~$700 worth of defences, that's a lot easier than the vault. If you want to go the route of having your wife defended then yes you do need to give up money that you could have used on your vault, but it pays off when you've been robbed but still have a huge sum of cash to repair with.

I think they could be a bit more useful, but it's not too bad. I've had top house twice with my family alive, and they're really useful.

Care to explain how?

Commitment pitbull: 320
Shotgun/another pitbull: 320
Anything decent to protect your vault+walls, wires etc: 1000
Money left for bait: 380...which means no one will ever risk dying in your house.

And I can guarantee, some dick will dodge your wife (in case you're using a shotgun) to club your children on their way out, and we're back to where we're started, your safety is compromised.

You can build something like this:
http://castledraft.com/editor/U5s53D
Edit: http://castledraft.com/editor/L32UgQ
Edit 2: http://castledraft.com/editor/fH67pF
Where it's impossible to kill the wife or kids with $2000 worth of tools (so long as I haven't made any mistakes in that castledraft). With the vault it is always in some way possible, and usually you can find a weakness to exploit. To make it completely impossible to get to your wife and thus defend half of your money from starter tools, this isn't much of a price to pay.

It will be expensive though, you can't easily completely defend your wife, build good defences for your vault, and then still expect to have over $500 left to bait in robbers without ever stepping a foot outside your own house yourself. Part of the game is about when "things are bad" and you have to make some compromises.

I still agree that they should be less of a liability, but I think they can be pretty useful and not too hard to defend.

Last edited by colorfusion (2014-02-20 06:55:23)

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#16 2014-02-20 04:59:20

ukuko
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 333

Re: Family

Well aside from the family having no path to the exit... wink

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#17 2014-02-20 05:01:42

colorfusion
Member
Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 537

Re: Family

ukuko wrote:

Well aside from the family having no path to the exit... wink

Woops, completely forgot about that. Redesigning it now, that was just to kill the cat.

Edit: Fixed it now I think

Last edited by colorfusion (2014-02-20 05:07:04)

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#18 2014-02-20 05:03:36

vahn
Member
Registered: 2013-12-13
Posts: 13

Re: Family

colorfusion wrote:

You can build something like this:
http://castledraft.com/editor/U5s53D
Where it's impossible to kill the wife or kids with $2000 worth of tools (so long as I haven't made any mistakes in that castledraft). With the vault it is always in some way possible, and usually you can find a weakness to exploit. To make it completely impossible to get to your wife and thus defend half of your money from starter tools, this isn't much of a price to pay.

It will be expensive though, you can't easily completely defend your wife, build good defences for your vault, and then still expect to have over $500 left to bait in robbers without ever stepping a foot outside your own house yourself. Part of the game is about when "things are bad" and you have to make some compromises.


you just forgot the free path to the exit smile

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#19 2014-02-20 05:33:50

ukuko
Member
Registered: 2013-04-06
Posts: 333

Re: Family

What does the window do?

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#20 2014-02-20 05:44:55

colorfusion
Member
Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 537

Re: Family

ukuko wrote:

What does the window do?

Originally it was to make it so the player always sees the wife at least one step before they can get to her, so they can't tunnel through the wall and club her. Now it's not needed though I guess, as it could just be an empty space and it takes 5 saws to get to them.

Edit: Fixed window

I agree overall that they aren't really worth it.

Last edited by colorfusion (2014-02-20 14:15:53)

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#21 2014-02-20 06:41:47

joshwithguitar
Member
Registered: 2013-07-28
Posts: 538

Re: Family

Well, with this house can step on the shotgun before the wife gets it and club her.

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#22 2014-02-20 14:14:31

Sybernetik
Member
Registered: 2014-02-08
Posts: 36

Re: Family

Every time i start a house i put my family by the front door and babysit it until they are dead. In my opinion a family is a liability in the current game state. Space better used to protect your vault, no chance of loosing half your cash and no way to save damage to the house when they are gone. Yes, I'm a terrible husband and father.

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#23 2014-02-20 15:11:14

42dustman
Member
Registered: 2014-01-20
Posts: 231

Re: Family

More protected than any vault. I'm telling ya.

http://castledraft.com/editor/yBKeOX


Self-testing is torture.

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#24 2014-02-20 15:23:14

Jabloko
Member
Registered: 2014-02-15
Posts: 52

Re: Family

42dustman wrote:

More protected than any vault. I'm telling ya.

http://castledraft.com/editor/yBKeOX

Price:23k. How much is she going to be protecting anyway?

Price to break:
1 meat,2 saws, 8 guns, 1 explosive, even if you bought them (and you haven't) at full price, you will end up with 25.000-(100+800+9600+1200)=13830 profit. Not to mention that even if he proceeds for your vault and dies, he will still leave a huge mess behind, overnight, that's the last thing you want to happen.

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#25 2014-02-20 15:29:53

iceman
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 687
Website

Re: Family

Just be careful when you put dogs close together like that.  If you shoot the first one, you can club the rest, since they can't step on a dead dog.  If you space them out by 1 it's harder to do, but you can drug 1, wait until the rest walk up to it, shoot it, and proceed to club it.  Putting them in a zig zag, like you did with the top, helps, but the best way is to use the "cats in pits" techique.


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I keep dying of a natural cause - Stupidity
The biggest thing that Castle Doctrine has taught me is that the price of your house is proportional to the stupidity of the mistake that kills you.

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