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#301 Re: Main Forum » This is getting ridiculous » 2014-03-08 10:24:14

JoyOfTrapping wrote:

Wowzers, a clocky-wocky!  I went on a bit of a spree last night (see recent Vindictive Robbers thread) but this wasn't me.  House seems reasonable in concept to me.  The only thing I would say I notice about many starter house builds is they pack in a lot of traps and then thin walls.  To be honest, on all of my starter houses, I invest heavily in the walls.  I will have 3-thick wooden walls in most places, and even 4 in the significant places.  Combined with a little deception and misdirection, this is actually what serves me best against 2k onslaughts, not my actual traps or the number of traps.  I would suggest to anyone working with 2k starter builds to try building something with a good shell and some confusion, rather than something with a strong trap in a small area with a flimsy shell.  Other than that, interesting house.

I agree. I try to get a minimum of 2-think wooden walls, and, if possible, have steel around my safe. This is because traps are surprisingly hard to break if you can't see the whole map, and, even for a cheap starter house, if you build a simple, non-guessing-based trap, its much more likely that people will use tools to break through it rather than legitimately solving the trap.

#302 Re: Main Forum » My first complete house » 2014-03-08 10:19:13

This is decently secure; a reasonable robber looking to brute-force would have to spend a minimum of $5,200 to reach you vault by traveling along the expected path, like this.

A lucky robber, or one absolutely set on bruteforcing, however, could get through for only $3200.

What I would recommend changing:

  • Don't use massive amounts of powered electric floors. Bypassing those is too easy for brute-forcers. At the very least, hook them up to a magic dance, so they get powered sometime after the robber steps onto them; at the most, use a clocks and have your robber traverse a floor of alternating electric floors and trapdoors - also hooked up to a magic dance that will kill them if they make the wrong move.

  • Don't let bypassing the electric floor section make the rest of the trap less deadly. In this case, if somebody waters over the floors, the dogs are no longer a threat; they aren't waiting behind that door to kill you instantly, because they haven't aggro'ed yet. It would be better to find a way to make them see you no matter what.

  • I disagree with LiteS on your late Chihuahua trap. Many a well-armed bruteforcer has died from a trap like that; the dumb ones barrel in and cut the wrong floor (the one behind them - they want to escape!), the ones who think they're smart cut the first wall (and die), and the lucky ones cut behind them to live. Rarely are players smart enough to disable the trap by cutting the electric floor connected to the powered wall.

#303 Re: Main Forum » Blood Blossom: The Rise and Untimely Fall of my Best House Yet » 2014-03-08 09:57:03

Banakai wrote:

Someone was using an exact copy of your starter house and I just died from it.

Wish I had read this earlier.

I love it when people use my starter houses that I post. It makes for great free money.

My only worry if I was robbing this specific place would be that the combination could be easily changed, making the solution different than my original one.

#304 Re: News » Version 34 Released » 2014-03-08 09:53:15

jasonrohrer wrote:

Was there a previous thread asking for this?

Not a connection icon specifically, but there had been threads discussing the problems of a spotty internet killing you after robberies. This specific fix was only a recent suggestion, though.

#305 Re: Main Forum » Calling all artists! » 2014-03-03 20:28:07

I'd gladly help out with doing art assets, namely because I love doing pixel art, especially with the shader system in TCD on top, which looks really great IMO. I sent you an email, and hopefully will be able to help out.

#306 Re: Main Forum » Calling all artists! » 2014-03-03 19:40:10

I like this idea. Sent my painting in, I might do another one as well.

#307 Re: Main Forum » Robbing a 40k house with 20k worth of tools » 2014-03-02 11:17:36

joshwithguitar wrote:
Blip wrote:

Lots of saws, wire cutters, and waters, and a few guns. At least five ladders, torches, and explosives. 1 crowbar, just in case of a door trap.

The logic there is that you have the ability to get through most wiring people have set up, which often leads straight to their vault. Once you follow the wiring close to the vault, you usually only need a couple ladders or explosives to get there. If you're unlucky, you might need a crowbar, which you brought just in case. Most of the other stuff is to keep you out of sticky situations and keep you alive.

I've robbed many $40k houses with much less than "five ladders, torches, explosives". It really depends on the house - do a good scouting run first to get an idea of what you are in for. Also I rarely bring more than 5 wire cutters, the only exception is if it is obvious that they have lots of electric floors. Also, as Jabloko says, dog meat are pretty much a must have in any house - guns are too expensive to be your only defence against dogs. Also, guns are not necessary for most houses unless you are intent on taking out the wife.

This is only for a house where you haven't scouted, Jabloko made that pretty clear. Normally, I would avoid bringing that much stuff and instead slowly work my way through the house with minimum resources. Here, though, you have to plan for the worst, and be ready for a house with both a lot of trapdoors or a lot of electric floors. The problem with replacing guns with meat would be that it would require more of the other tools; what if you drugged a dog in a 1-wide concrete corridor that you had to get through? You would need three explosives to solve a problem solvable with one gun.

Of course, that's all my opinion on what to bring. i.e. if I had to rob a 40k house in one go, no scouting, no second attempts, that's what I would bring, and it would probably work, along with lots of other setups which would also work. Many people have different robbing strategies, and the one that my theoretical loadout follows is "prepare for the worst".

#308 Re: Main Forum » Blood Blossom: The Rise and Untimely Fall of my Best House Yet » 2014-03-02 11:07:01

42dustman wrote:

Woooow... Nice abattoir house man. When we are building huge homes It seems that sometimes we reach the point where we can't handle the complexities of the very things we are designing, had a moment like that a few days ago, but with a way more humble home.

Yeah, I often have trouble keeping the changes I'm making to my house stored in my head. Once I have a lot to lose from death, I usually take a mapshot before a self test and compare that to my previous mapshot, just to make sure I've only changed what's necessary. Of course, after two weeks, I thought I knew this house like the back of my hand. I clearly didn't.

mala wrote:
RevealingGekco wrote:

Did anyone make it to the disco floor?


i really doubt, none has ever gone past my first trap, i'm starting to think about this house model from now on:

Anonymous entrance to fool scouts,

1st area unsolvable with the 2k tools,

rest of the house based on preventing bruteforce (nothing but that will tear your house apart), tight space, always chased by animals (both visible and invisible), floor completely covered by pits and electric grids

Exactly. Nobody could bruteforce my house without simply destroying everything on their way to the vault. And even if they got there, they had better hope that they have a crowbar as well. Also, nobody made it to the disco floor. The furthest somebody made it was three tiles to the right of the top left corner. They sawed the wired wall, walked up, saw the dog, walked left, and were trapped by two electric floors. They chose to die by stepping forward, placing them at the forefront of robbers in my house.

#309 Re: Main Forum » Complete silence to my own traps. 50k house lots » 2014-03-02 10:58:47

It's a nice design, but I would avoid using that much wood; your design would only take $6,100 to brute-force, like this: http://castledraft.com/editor/nMEvyM. Instead, add concrete and pits in choice places to make cutting through the house that much harder.

Otherwise, I like how your entrance trap relies on subverting expectations, and the amount of tricks and dead-ends you have. I would personally recommend against having a combination lock from relatively early on in the house connect directly to the electric floors in front of the vault, though. When people see combo locks, they generally cut through them if they have the saws, and in this case, that would lead them directly to your vault.

#310 Re: Main Forum » Blood Blossom: The Rise and Untimely Fall of my Best House Yet » 2014-03-01 20:24:30

Thanks! I'm really bummed that my house fell before a long stint on the front page, but I think that this remembrance was at least fitting a house that killed so many.

#311 Re: Main Forum » It's not a "base," it's a house. » 2014-03-01 20:22:21

Neither is it a "dungeon", nor a "castle".

#312 Main Forum » Blood Blossom: The Rise and Untimely Fall of my Best House Yet » 2014-03-01 18:05:27

Blip
Replies: 15

I just died, following about 200 others who lost their lives to the same house: my house. I had built this house up for two weeks, and had a net worth of 100k. I briefly reached the front page, and, after spending some of my money to upgrade and grab a painting, I planned on returning. I knew this house could withstand the rigors at the top, and that all I had to do was wait. But I fell into the unavoidable trap of impatience. I kept tinkering with my house, each time having to self test again. Eventually the inevitable happened. Thus, I present to you, Blood Blossom:

CWNskGG.png

R.I.P. Me. Also, does anybody happen to know the name of the late myself?

#313 Re: Main Forum » Robbing a 40k house with 20k worth of tools » 2014-03-01 11:59:41

Lots of saws, wire cutters, and waters, and a few guns. At least five ladders, torches, and explosives. 1 crowbar, just in case of a door trap.

The logic there is that you have the ability to get through most wiring people have set up, which often leads straight to their vault. Once you follow the wiring close to the vault, you usually only need a couple ladders or explosives to get there. If you're unlucky, you might need a crowbar, which you brought just in case. Most of the other stuff is to keep you out of sticky situations and keep you alive.

#314 Re: Main Forum » contraption help request » 2014-03-01 09:46:22

I fixed it; I had accidentally used a voltage triggered instead of a voltage inverted in that design. This one works as intended, though it's a couple tiles wider. Note: the missing electric floor is intended to that the two loops don't mix. Also, note that those second set of electric floors aren't on at any point, so it's safe to cross.

#315 Re: Main Forum » Funniest Home Surveillance Tapes » 2014-03-01 09:22:13

Karl Farx wrote:

aaaaand the next guy came and wasted lots of tools in multiple runs, now sits at 2400$.
What makes my house so darn attractive?

The fact that you have a large open space at the beginning is very appealing; it gives robbers a sense of security. Many more people are, for example, willing to walk down a two-wide corridor than a one-wide one, and this is just another example of that effect. The robber feels that they have options on how they move in that area, and thus they feel more secure to go further in robbing a house with a large open area.

#316 Re: Main Forum » Ideas and questions » 2014-02-28 19:38:18

joshwithguitar wrote:

There are times when I think "a voltage detector is just what I need right now!" but they are so far and few between that I would never actually take one into a robbery. I think the same would end up happening for the battery.

I liked the idea of the voltage detector, but I agree that it turned out pretty useless. It's the type of thing that I would bring along if it was free, but wouldn't be willing to pay for. Also, it was phased out before signed sprites, and it was redundant because people already had put lit-up wires in their sprites anyways.
I also remember wishing that a "battery" existed a long time ago, back when trapdoors used to conduct, and people just made long lines out of them as their defense. Now, with non-condictive trapdoors, the battery would be much less useful; I rarely have built houses where something like a battery would have had much effect. The one use I could see is disabling clocks by forcing an "on" output, but I'm not sure it would be that useful (you would still have to water over lots of electric floors) and probably wouldn't see much use in that situation anyway.
Anyways, I think the game is, for the most part, properly balanced right now and that adding new tools might just mess that balance up.

#317 Re: News » Version 34 Released » 2014-02-28 19:29:28

Finally... a connection icon during robbery! I've been wanting that one since v8 or so. tongue

#318 Re: Main Forum » A question for the experts. » 2014-02-28 19:27:25

JoyOfTrapping wrote:

At around $13k or so, the respawn $2k suicide robbers start to drop off slowly.  I personally feel $13k-$22k or so is sort of a safe point.  If your house is good enough to get up to that point, it should be pretty secure from $2k-ers and it will be rare that someone with a bunch of tools will go for it.  Past the $20k-something mark though, you begin to become a target for other mid-high tier players.

I agree with this; a "middle class" has developed, sitting at the 12-22k mark and, more often then not, waiting for bounties that rarely come. Personally, I use this time in my house's life to upgrade. Spend your money on new trap systems until you fall in the 2-7k range, then wait. You'll be in the prime suicide robber range, and shoot back up to the middle class in no time. After a couple times though this, you can get a really nice, well-defended house capable of surviving on the front page. Then you can wait and slowly rise there from bounties or try your hand at robbing a super rich dude; don't worry about spending most of your cash on tools, because, again, you'll easily get back to the 10k+ range after going offline with 2-7k for the night.

That's my advice on meta-stategy. As for house design, the best way to get better at it is to rob and see what everybody else is doing. Even if you die, that's one trap idea that you can use, and you know it's effective: if it killed you, it could easily kill somebody else.

#319 Re: Main Forum » Why people love so much magic dances? » 2014-02-28 12:00:37

LiteS wrote:

A combination lock or magic dance puts a hard stop on the forward progress of the suicide robber, and with enough bits a combo lock can protect you from lucky guessing.

This. The combo lock or magic dance strategy is designed around probability; you make the probability of guessing the correct solution for a house far less. It allows houses to stand longer in the face of many suicide robbers repeatedly charging though commit gates with little to no care.

#320 Re: Main Forum » Took down my first big score » 2014-02-28 11:52:47

I remember my first big robbery, way back in v5. I took down the 2nd richest house in the game with under 2k of tools by using a Chihuahua in one of his walls to protect me as I stepped through a door with a pitbull behind it, allowing me to bypass his magic dance. A house that had stood for weeks went down to a couple explosives and a crowbar, and I was much, much richer. tongue

#321 Re: Main Forum » contraption help request » 2014-02-28 11:47:30

This should work: http://castledraft.com/editor/xPa1on
The idea behind this is that the odd-step pulses from the electric-floor loop are inverted to make even-step pulses. These are combined with a separate set of odd-step pulses from a separate loop, so that the door receives power at every step of the loop and settles down to the on state. When the floors are cut, constant power flows through the floors, and that is inverted into no power. The door is now only receiving odd-step pulses, and settles into the off, or open, state.

#322 Re: Main Forum » How does this happen? » 2014-02-24 20:28:31

I just wanted to add that I love this trap. It gets even better when you put it in the very corner of your house, so that, once you step there, there's no way out unless you did something else previously.

#323 Re: Main Forum » [Suggestion]: Save Us From Ourselves: No Test-Run Permadeath! » 2014-02-24 20:26:34

I'd like to reiterate something Jason said a long time ago: Your traps will perma-death others who are robbing you. Why, then, do you somehow get a "by" on dying in your own house? It isn't fair to the robbers that you get to try your live, deadly traps many times but they only get one. It also serves as a way to prevent people from making ridiculously difficult and tedious houses. If you had a clock-magic dance combo that requires, say 250 steps, all in the right order, you would be very likely to kill yourself testing it; therefore, you would build something different instead.

#324 Re: Main Forum » Is there a way to import a castle draft directly to your house? » 2014-02-24 20:14:58

I wish there was, but there isn't, without a modded client.

#325 Re: Main Forum » Only in the world of Castle Doctrine... » 2014-02-23 09:44:08

- Pits are scaled using ladders. Why not use planks as an actual bridge or something?
- Also, ladders can literally float if need be. Just put one on the first of a line of pits to see.
- Despite your wife being incapable of operating doors, she can operate a firearm with ease.
- No piece of electronics has been developed that is smaller than a human.
- Cats are afraid of all humans, even their owner.
- Crowbars are the most expensive object in the world, save for paintings.
- You don't know your own name until somebody tells you.

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