Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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I agree with Smokestorm; the salary is too high as it is now. I might build a house with 2000, or get some money from robberies and have a house that might cost a few more thousand. However, I rarely log in again before the amount of money in my house rises above the amount needed to simply brute-force the house, ripping through the walls and getting to the vault. Before, I felt that salary was useful; it would give me some money to build with every time I logged back in. Now, salary only serves to cause those who don't play the game often to lose all of their money due to robbers who get a net profit from simply using tools on all the traps in the player's house.
I like the 10-minutes-per-paycheck mechanic, but it would be nice to tone down the amount of money received. How about $24 for the player and $48 for the wife? This has the same amount of money hourly as it was before the change, just split up into intervals of 10 minutes.
Recently I got two very, very odd security tapes. The first one claims that the robber, Richard Damian Nash, stole $13000. However, upon viewing the tape, he dies before getting to the safe, and fails to kill my wife either. The tape, however, continues after death, with enough steps in the remaining tape to get him to the vault! The very next tape features James Richard Morris, who also dies in the trap. This time he legitimately stole some money (over $15000!), as he killed my wife. After death, the tape goes on, and he begins using the many tools in his inventory one by one, along with some blank steps as well. The next tape, a normal robbery attempt, has my house trashed... with exactly the same amount of tools that Morris used before accepting his demise.
I think somebody might be hacking so that they can move, use tools, and even complete robberies after death. Otherwise, there is a bug that allows this to happen. Has anybody else seen this? What's going on?
Disclaimer: I was away for the weekend, and didn't try v9 before tool prices got raised, so I'm only speaking about the current, high-tool-price v9 gameplay.
So, the Castle Doctrine has been out to the public since v5, and I'm going to do a quick recap of all the versions, both their good parts and bad ones. I'll then apply what we learned to critique the current v9 release. So let's start off with v5:
At first, v5 was incredibly fun. There was lots of sneaking around, and I loved it. I would enter a house, scout around, possibly find a weakness, return with the right tools, and get the steal. Of course, the same happened to my house, and, in that first week or two, the top of the house list was turbulent. Here, people could both affect the puzzles of your traps (which switches would be hit) and the structures in your house (walls to break through). They could solve the puzzle, or solve part of it and bypass the end with well-used tools, or eventually cut through your house completely to get to the vault. But then the 9 thick wall came, and forced people to only affect puzzle elements. Combo locks became common, and that was definitely bad. However, these locks cost very much money, so many players simply went on robbing the middle class houses, leaving the few combo locks sitting at the top of the list. Then the magic dance was created, and it was so cheap that everybody had an unbreakable house.
v6 was meant to fix that with blueprints. At first, it worked, and combo locks and magic dances became obsolete. However, many other houses, like a maze or multiple commitment traps, also became non-viable, and there were few houses that worked from starting cash. The starting cash was tripled, and houses flourished... but these new houses were obfuscated monstrosities that were fit for an electrical engineer. Zed built a three bit counter, and I even made a five bit read-write lock, designs no newbie could ever solve. I was having some fun, but many people weren't, and the advent of one of my close friends playing showed me that; he had no idea how to solve the top houses, but kept getting robbed by the top players.
v7 was a small update that added the Ignore House button, to counter "once-robbable" houses cluttering up the list. It was useful, but not a major change. v8 added an un-Ignore button, which was a simple change to fix accidental ignoring, and the permadeath server, which was fun, but didn't affect any of the problems with the game.
And now there's v9. Any house can be robbed; the only question is if the robbery will be a net gain for the robber. The best thing about v9 is that there's lots of sneaking around. I enter a house, scout around, possibly find a weakness, return with the right tools, and get the steal. Sound familiar? v9 recreates the v5 feel without letting backpack size force people to solve a puzzle. However, it seems like there might be a new problem: exepensive-to-solve houses. If a house costs $1000 to solve, a player will probably do so once it has more than $1000 of stuff in it. However, if the house costs $10,000 to solve, not everybody will have the money to solve it. For example, this design from largestherb (slightly modified due to an error in the original design): http://castlefortify.com/c/854988f. It's functionally once-robbable, as after the first robbery it would cost 25,200 to get to the vault. People would enter the house and immediately leave, and then make the house start earning money again, as one of the last two robberies was not successful. If the setup of v9 prevents people from getting the $96900 to build this house in the first place, that's good, but if we start getting to that point, the game will stagnate once again.
tl;dr summary:
v9 recreates the tension found in exploring houses that v5 had, but expensive to solve houses could become the problem with this version.
One of my good friends also just stared playing, and he told me some of the same things you're saying:
"How do these traps work?" and "How can I not be robbed so often?"
Of course, I helped him out, and tried to catch him up on all the stuff we as a community has learned about the game since v5. I told him about how to make dog-activated electric floors, and how voltage triggered switches work. I'm trying to teach him how to use blueprints to come up with a comprehensive solution to a house, and how to make his house, in turn, harder to crack with blueprints. Now that he understands the basics, he's been looking at the richest houses, and, as he knows what each individual component in their house does, he can deduce how they work together to make a trap. The moral here is that it's really useful to have somebody to ask your questions about the game to. And, if you don't know personally any experienced players, ask you questions here on the forums! We're happy to teach you about the mechanics of the game, and we truly want you to enjoy playing it.
I didn't take any screenshots, but I just robbed John Earl Fernandez, the second top house, for all of his money (he had a dead family). The first part of his trap was based on one of mine, which he successfully robbed a couple days ago, so I knew how to walk to inactivate the electric floors. The second part involved deciphering wirings as to let cats over switches and keeps dogs behind doors. I decided, instead, to just shoot the dogs and continue with the trap. The wiring turned out to be pretty simple, and I finished up the trap and took $44000 and some paintings. I think this house belonged to jearr, so I'd like to say sorry, but you had it coming. You robbed me in the first place.
It's an interesting concept, considering that I'll be even more paranoid about robbing than I am in the normal game with a good house. But I'm not sure if anybody would even try robbing each other in pemadeath; ukuko didn't rob me, and I haven't robbed him, and probably won't ever, from the looks of his house. It might be a long wait until easy houses show up before any robberies happen, especially when there's also the normal server as an alternative.
I like the fact that now, paintings might even be a disadvantage. Everybody has a very well-protected wife, but all houses are, by definition, beatable if they contain paintings (as a once-robbable house would lose its paintings at the first robbery.) So spending money on paintings puts that value into your vault, where it can easily be taken. The wife behind eight pit bulls might as well be immortal in a well-designed house, but if you get robbed, she only keeps half your cash. By lowering your cash through buying paintings, you have less of a parachute to fix and improve your house once robbed. This makes paintings even more of a luxury, as you have to either have so much money that half of it is still a significant amount, or have a ridiculously hard trap.
I just realized...
There seem to by two versions of the painting "Sky", of which I own both.
However, one of them is by Jason Rohrer, but the other is by Jason Rhorer. I wonder why that is? Care to explain, Jason?
This seems like a good fix. Now I'm having to choose between an expensive house and paintings, as opposed to just spending my excess money on paintings. And I think everybody'll choose a good protective house for when they finally have enough to afford even one painting.
The thing that I loved about your original house, zed, was that you were using pulses to conduct power across the electric floors without turning them on, something that took me some time to figure out how to do. I had tried robbing your house before, but the chihuahuas threw me off. I'm terrible with dog-based electronics, and I also misread the concrete walls as steel. At the time, I didn't realize you could mouse over blueprint tiles for info.
Also I finished my secure read-write lock. It should keep people out, though I don't have too much money in there now. I had to leave it unfinished last night, as I had something in real life to do (but who needs real friends when you can rob people?) and somebody robbed my out-in-the-open vault. This morning I got some more money, and finished it. It is 9-thick, but, at the moment, there's no family protection. They all died during my open-wiring experimentation, when I had no defenses at all. Though, considering I have no room for them, they might be better off dead: no save-states for you robbers!
That's a pretty useful piece of wiring, zed. I think I just robbed your next house; five-bit binary encoding is nice, but I just read the final switches, right to left: 10101, or 21 times the button has to be depressed. No amount of wiring can protect you from a legible combination.
I might use that 50000$ to build a secure read/write lock.
I recently decided to move away from building "real" houses for the moment and focus on delving into the deep and complex electronics of the game. Much of this utilized a device that can "store" a bit of data, 0 or 1. This device is simple to build; you arrange pressure pads, VTS's, and VTIS's in this pattern (thanks for tipping me off on this, zed!):
+-$
|+s
|+V++
+--v+I$: power
s: switch
+,|,-: wiring
V: voltage inverted switch
v: voltage triggered switch
I: indicator floor
Note: this upcoming section may get a bit confusing.
This results in a "sticking" power supply coming to the light. While these could simply be used to make sticky buttons out of non-sticky ones, I had a cooler use for them in mind. With this, I build a press counter on a button. Every time the button is pressed or unpressed, another light down the line is activated: http://castlefortify.com/c/37af9d1
This utilizes the bit storage circuits to act as a secondary power supply that passes power along down the line, allowing each subsequent press of the button to supply power to the top of the next powered bit circuit. This continues until all of bits have been tripped, resulting in all the indicator light being on. Of course, it wouldn't make a good trap at that point, as all it did was count presses. I wanted to build something where players would store bits of information in bit storage circuits, using only one or two buttons, and use it for later.
At that point I was inspired by hard drives: I decided to use the press counter as a "write head", to control which bit of a set of multiple would be written to. A second button would allow that player to write to this bit; alternatively, a different form of input could be used: http://castlefortify.com/c/3c714a4
Power from the press counter controls voltage triggered switches, routing power from the lower button to a different bit, namely the one below the closest non-lit light on the press counter. These now store five bits of data, which could wired directly into a combination lock. Again, this might be too easy to crack and relatively hard to defend well, as players could see what the final combination is and, using that, deduce how to input those bits into the system. So, instead of using the stored information in those bits immediately, I devised a system to read them out one by one at a later time, a "read head" if you will: http://castlefortify.com/c/bf54cac
The read head is a press counter that functions to let power from each bit out, as opposed to letting power for each bit in. As power goes down the line of the press counter, it activates voltage and inverted switches, which output power from each bit one by one, reading them out onto the sole indicator light at every press of the read button. Now, the stored information is in a position where it can be accessed later, perhaps allowing it affect a trap that contains read head activators, turning parts of the trap on and off based of prior encoding by the thief.
Has anybody else built any cool electronics they want to show off? Post them here!
As a matter of fact, I just completed my new wiring puzzle. It takes up a massive amount of space, but by using some of these electronic idiosyncrasies, like the "sticky" switch made of a voltage and an inverted voltage switch, I built a three-bit lock controlled by only two buttons. I was going to add more bits total, but I built the first three too high up and didn't have room to expand while also letting my family be protected. My next house I'll probably go for a six-bit, three button lock. Just as a tip for robbers, it featured a press counter on one of the switches, my favorite new invention that allows one switch to have multiple outputs depending on the amount of times it is stepped on. Of course, it's an absolutely massive setup, but a cool step forward in CD electronics. I'll probably post the design for the step counter (not the rest of the house, though) once my current house gets robbed.
Whenever I get robbed successfully, it usually occurs while I'm not at the computer: sleeping, outside, etc. Because of this, even if thieves don't get to my wife, they can go to town on my house, wrecking it and robbing it repeatedly. When I log back on, I have no money, and no functional defenses in my house. I don't want to go rob somebody, because, unless they have a lot of money, I probably can't fix up my house entirely and am leaving my cash open; also, I'm worried that if I go on a robbing spree, which is what I would what to do to maximize the amount of money I have to repair my house, people will take my money as soon as I get it. I think a way to stock money away so that you would get it when logging on after a successful robbery would be useful. A player could place a limited amount of money, e.g. 2000 or less, into their "insurance", at which point they can no longer access it, even if they wanted to use it to build new defenses, and it wouldn't count towards house value. However, it would be protected from robbers: the money would be stored until their first login after a successful robbery, allowing them to patch up their house before heading back out to rob others.
I only have time to play a couple times a week, so a weekly reset wouldn't let me reap any rewards for a good house design. I think a reset every three weeks might be more reasonable; it would allow people to rise in the ranks and profit from good houses before the reset without seeming rushed. It would also allow players to succeed without requiring obsessive rebuilding every week.
It's probably not a hack at all, but a house that becomes impossible once robbed. I think the dog used to be on the other side of the switch, as with the dog there you can just walk over the traps. However, once 1 robber has done that, and reached the vault, the new position of the dog is stored, making the house impossible to rob.
Actually, this house's state could not be due to a previous robbery. If it was, the first, supposedly successful, robber would have first walked right and to the vault. For that switch to be inactive, as it is, it would have initially been active, before the pit bull would walk over it. This means that the electric floor would have power initially, making the house unbeatable by its owner. Therefore, they must have used a modified client to verify their house, before there was a safeguard against it. I bet that, if Jason checks the tapes, that's what he would find.
All we need is for people to pay attention to the coming of v6, and start designing houses which don't rely on hidden information.
I've done that... my house's logic isn't hard to expose, and the puzzle is tricky but fair. It has around 2-3 grand in it currently, and is distinguished by a big square of doors at its centre. It's been there for a few days without anyone solving it (or even really trying, as far as I can tell from the snuff videos). Feel free to pound on it if you're getting annoyed with the samey top houses. I'm interested to see how long it lasts.
I completely agree; we need houses that are puzzles, not guessing games. v6 will make this so, but so few people actually care to future-proof their house, and only a couple of those of us who do have the money to do so. I have a design ready for when I get the money, and it's a nice puzzle, but it would cose upward of 7000 to make, and I can't get that much at this point.
Also, I think I found your house a couple days ago, after a death, and figured I'd give it a glance despite having little money in it at that point. I gave it one try, using some voltage meters, then decided it wasn't worth it. But it's great to see a true puzzle house now! Also, how much did it cost, and where did you get the money?
So I died and had to start over, and I'm realizing that this change makes it incredibly difficult to start out, as all the houses that have any money are protected with electric floors, so the only thing to do is brute force the rich houses. Here are the big problems:
1. Before the change, a big part of making money was grinding through poor houses, which wasn't much fun.
2. Now, making money entails brute forcing rich houses, which is also not very fun.
Therefore, I've concluded that we need a way to make money while still having fun playing the game. In v6, maps will help with this, allowing you to deduce the solution of a house and then trying it out, adding in thought to what was just brute force before. But for now, a fix might be adding these "NPC houses." They would be designed fairly, with proper rewards for their risk. The only problem with this would be shifting game focus off robing others and towards robbing NPCs.
Alternatively, a temporary fix for the magic dance could be derived; the ability to make one for so cheap is a big problem now. Combo locks didn't break the game this badly because so few people could afford them, while a magic dance can be made with the starting 2000. Whether this can be fixed without a new client I don't know, but if it can be fixed, even imperfectly, before v6, I think it would keep players unhappy with the impossibility of nearly all houses now from leaving the game.
As a last resort, salary could be added back in for all houses. That, however, is Mr. Rohrer's decision and not mine. But at least it's interesting to see how big an impact a small change can have, despite my clashing opinions on both sides of this issue.
I recently realized how much of the money that enters the CD economy is from people robbing abandoned houses that simply produce money via their hourly wages. This allows people to attain wealth without trying to rob houses with functioning traps (or any traps for that matter). Whether this is a good thing is a matter of opinion, but I believe that these abandoned houses are the cause of the viability of the "only rob the poor" strategy that many use once they have a house they don't want to lose. I believe a possible fix would be to make houses disappear from the list after being robbed successfully a certain amount of times without the owner logging on.
Any thoughts?
If you can see the whole map and it's still hard, to me that just means people of have obfuscated what the real map is. Like when people do cryptic stuff to javascript code to make it unreadable by humans, but it does the same thing. If everyone can see the whole map, we'll be trying to over-complicate everything we do to make it as obscure as possible. Not sure that's going to be that fun!
However, I do think the game needs more tools that allow us to infer things from what we can't see. Tools that are like the voltage sensor (but more useful). Like a tool that allows you to "hear" through walls (like safecrackers use), so you can determine, that 20 squares away, something just stepped on a switch. An obscured "wire view" which maybe allows you to see some flow through the house, or maybe indicates when a large electrical change has occurred. Maybe a little camera snake, that can burrow through walls and allow you to see what's going on, without going there? Or a device that allows you to splice wires together (say, to avoid a pressure switch) and then manually toggle them on and off. Brute forcing a combination lock just became easier. (OOoh OOh! and if you want to go off and a completely nonsensical direction, how bout letting us download and share bruteforcing software into the program which can crack the code for us. Okay forget that.)
Also, maybe instead of making a pack of 32, these tools are simply reusable.
I completely agree that people will try to obfuscate houses, but that won't really help them much. It still has to make sense to the viewer, despite a lot of excess components. Obfuscated code, on the other hand, is completely changed in look. Making a house overcomplicated would be like adding a lot of useless lines of code, not obfuscating it.
I really like the idea for more tools, especially the wire view. I feel that a wire or electronic view would fix magic dance houses while leaving many other designs possible. And the "splice wires" idea is ingenious; manually toggling power to wires or conductive walls would be very useful. I think a battery would also help; electric floor-based magic dances could be toggled on and then beaten with water. I also think that the sticky pressure pad should by un-stickable with a crowbar, to help fix the "locked in by 9 doors" strategy.
A way to counter turned-off electric grates would just result in the grates becoming 9-deep. That would actually be bad, since it results in less space for an interesting puzzle.
I think the best counter to those is a map. That will instantly make 99% of all dance-houses easily robbable and I look forward to seeing which designs will last longest.What we do need a fix for is dogs on the entrance tile.
A map would also make many other houses far too easy, including traps that aren't simple brute force to solve and are well-made and fun to try. It also would make any psychological aspects of a trap worthless; a decoy route that breaks the trap behind the scenes would be spotted and not gone down, along with rendering grates unconnected to power and the like worthless as deterrents.
On the other hand, a map of only wiring, pressure plates, and voltage triggered switches might be fairer. It would allow somebody to see the code of a combo lock, but not figure out how to beat a better-designed house, as they wouldn't be able to see all of the dogs, doors, etc. as well. I can already think of a good house design for this; beatable, but not impossible. It just takes a bit of thinking, even with a map of wires.
As for dogs on the entrance tile, an item like stun gas that has an area of effect, including the tile where you're standing, might be a fix. To stop this from being overpowered, it could stop working after a certain number of moves, allowing the player to simply walk past the dogs at the entrance and continue on once they get back up.