Family protection cost efficiency

mala · 2014-05-08 05:57:56

Hi guys, in my next house i'd like to keep my family alive for once, and i have a question about dog-cat-pit placement.

ignoring the fact that the lower path has 7 dogs due to the 15th tile, which one of the children is the harder to kill?

I remember reading something about the lower one being more expensive to pass, but i do not understand why.

never had a doggy path so i feel kinda noob about it

edit. For a moment i've accidentally copypasted the wrong castledraft link, i was about to post the finished layout of my next house

Last edited by mala (2014-05-08 06:01:47)

poor · 2014-05-08 06:41:03

I think the lower one just costs less to build, since there are no walls between the pits. Could probably get the same benefit by just using wooden walls between pits.

Then again, I could be wrong.

TheRealCheese · 2014-05-08 07:30:50

The lower one fits more dogs. But to make it work optimally, you need someone to push those cats into pits. An easy way to do that is to, once you have all the pits and cats, remove the dogs and put your vault there, which will make the next robber go rob you for half your money (since your wife is hopefully still alive) and keep the cats that he puts in pits in those pits. That way you have a longer path of dogs, since you can place them in every other floor tile and it is a winding path rather than a straight one.
So the goal is to get the bottom one looking like this http://castledraft.com/editor/dPc2xo

mala · 2014-05-08 08:26:25

TheRealCheese wrote:

The lower one fits more dogs. But to make it work optimally, you need someone to push those cats into pits. An easy way to do that is to, once you have all the pits and cats, remove the dogs and put your vault there, which will make the next robber go rob you for half your money (since your wife is hopefully still alive) and keep the cats that he puts in pits in those pits. That way you have a longer path of dogs, since you can place them in every other floor tile and it is a winding path rather than a straight one.
So the goal is to get the bottom one looking like this http://castledraft.com/editor/dPc2xo

oh that's nice, ty

tigerbalm immunity · 2014-05-08 08:29:25

THE BOTTOM KID IS WAY MORE EXPENSIVE. the top kid can be killed with i think only 3 guns and clubs. The bottom path requires a gun for each dog. the difference is not to do with the single or double tile hallway width, but just pet movement mechanics.

on the bottom path, the cats will all jump in pits and the dogs will not move, and will remain stuck behind their respective pits. NOT SO for the top path. When going up (and east) if the dog and cat see you at the same time, (or more accurately, if the pit is empty when the dog sees you) then the dog will just walk right past the cat pit.

test it out. i think this makes southern family paths way stronger.

however, if you remove the pits, and just alternate dog/cat/dog/cat (like this: http://castledraft.com/editor/FjKqqD ), then the reverse is true: the south path dogs would all become clubbable, and the top path would all require all guns.

edit: added illustration

Last edited by tigerbalm immunity (2014-05-08 08:35:11)

TheRealCheese · 2014-05-08 10:16:57

tigerbalm immunity wrote:

THE BOTTOM KID IS WAY MORE EXPENSIVE. the top kid can be killed with i think only 3 guns and clubs. The bottom path requires a gun for each dog. the difference is not to do with the single or double tile hallway width, but just pet movement mechanics.
on the bottom path, the cats will all jump in pits and the dogs will not move, and will remain stuck behind their respective pits. NOT SO for the top path. When going up (and east) if the dog and cat see you at the same time, (or more accurately, if the pit is empty when the dog sees you) then the dog will just walk right past the cat pit.
test it out. i think this makes southern family paths way stronger.
however, if you remove the pits, and just alternate dog/cat/dog/cat (like this: http://castledraft.com/editor/FjKqqD ), then the reverse is true: the south path dogs would all become clubbable, and the top path would all require all guns.
edit: added illustration

The top line can be cleared with one brick and then a club for each dog.
Brick the first cat, club the first dog, step on second cat, club second dog and so on.

tigerbalm immunity · 2014-05-08 10:19:58

egads u're right!

iceman · 2014-05-08 10:22:00

tigerbalm immunity wrote:

on the bottom path, the cats will all jump in pits and the dogs will not move, and will remain stuck behind their respective pits. NOT SO for the top path. When going up (and east) if the dog and cat see you at the same time, (or more accurately, if the pit is empty when the dog sees you) then the dog will just walk right past the cat pit.

I don't think this is true- if the dog moves first, the cat's in the way. If the cat moves first, he jumps in the pit, and then the dog can't move.

TheRealCheese wrote:

So the goal is to get the bottom one looking like this http://castledraft.com/editor/dPc2xo

Just a note: if you space the dogs by 2 the whole way down, then you'll end up with one side being weaker than the other. In that map, going straight down the right side (drugging the dogs on the left and using ladders) is cheaper than killing the dogs, and MUCH cheaper than going down the left side. To fix it, about halfway through you should put a dog 1 tile further than you would've, so that the pattern changes.

Like so:
http://castledraft.com/editor/UMmSb1

Last edited by iceman (2014-05-08 10:27:08)

TheRealCheese · 2014-05-08 10:23:29

iceman wrote:

tigerbalm immunity wrote:
on the bottom path, the cats will all jump in pits and the dogs will not move, and will remain stuck behind their respective pits. NOT SO for the top path. When going up (and east) if the dog and cat see you at the same time, (or more accurately, if the pit is empty when the dog sees you) then the dog will just walk right past the cat pit.
I don't think this is true- if the dog moves first, the cat's in the way. If the cat moves first, he jumps in the pit, and then the dog can't move.

The first dog will keep moving, the second dog will be stopped by the first cat-in-pit. I don't know exactly why, I guess all pets move at the same time. But I've seen it.

iceman · 2014-05-08 10:31:15

TheRealCheese wrote:

The first dog will keep moving, the second dog will be stopped by the first cat-in-pit. I don't know exactly why, I guess all pets move at the same time. But I've seen it.

Wow, you're right- I should've tested it myself before =P It's not that they all move at the same time, but an animal is only registered as "dead" for movement purposes the turn after it dies.

TheRealCheese · 2014-05-08 11:06:43

I figured it would be something about the game checking for validity of the move on all moves and -then- moving everyone.

Last edited by TheRealCheese (2014-05-08 11:07:07)

Cylence · 2014-05-08 12:46:12

I wrote an article on this awhile back but its definitely out of date (http://thecastledoctrine.net/forums/vie … hp?id=1015).
I have learned a bit more since then.

To be the most efficient, you should set the pits with dead animals. In order to do that, you either have to let yourself get robbed, or give up one of your kids (to a friend or random clubbing). Either one will save any damage. If you really want to protect your wife, you should not have kids. Having kids around will let you play with family button timings, however, you'll need a bigger space for them.

The two ways are: http://castledraft.com/editor/NSLKdT
You can build both in any direction.
The winding one takes more guns, however, allows more vision.
The straight one takes less guns, but blocks more vision.

For in game examples:
The Geyer house uses the winding method.
The Jensen house uses the straight method.

Whichever method you use, try to intertwine your family defense with your vault defense for maximum efficiency.

iceman · 2014-05-08 14:44:09

TheRealCheese wrote:

I figured it would be something about the game checking for validity of the move on all moves and -then- moving everyone.

No, animals definitely take turns moving. It starts at bottom left, and goes up row by row. That's what leads to all of the different pet movement quirks.

For instance, in the example you posted: http://castledraft.com/editor/FjKqqD
The order explains why you can step on the first cat going down, but can't going up. Here's what happens:
UP
1. Player movement: Step on cat
2. Pet movement:
--Cat is lowest, so it moves first, going down
--Dog is next lowest, free to move down, bites robber

Result: Dead robber

DOWN
1. Player movement: Step on cat
2. Pet movement:
--Dog is lowest, tries to move up, cat is blocking movement
--Cat is next lowest, tries to run away from robber, succeeds

Result: Live robber

The same thing happens with chihuahua dances: if the chihuahua moves first, you'll survive. For instance, if you're on the chihuahua in this house:
http://castledraft.com/editor/c5mwOH
Going left or down will kill you, since in both cases the pit bull will move onto the hallway entrance before you do. If you go right or up, however, the chihuahua will move beside the door before the pit bull does, so you'll survive.

Anyways, sorry that I started this mild case of derailment off of the topic of family protection

TheRealCheese · 2014-05-08 15:01:48

Hey, since pets are an integral part of family protection, I don't think pet movement is entirely off the rails.

mala · 2014-05-09 07:57:11

ty all for the answers, the new layout is ready.
it's a funny house, no clock this time, just madness.

i'm experimenting with multiway animals commit gates. You'll be able to scout around and even backtrack if you do everything right.
(actually there's a lot of backtrack )

I have no time to manage the house right now, so i guess i'll build it next week.

Last edited by mala (2014-05-09 07:57:43)

The Castle Doctrine Forums

#1 2014-05-08 05:57:56

Family protection cost efficiency

#2 2014-05-08 06:41:03

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#3 2014-05-08 07:30:50

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#4 2014-05-08 08:26:25

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#5 2014-05-08 08:29:25

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#6 2014-05-08 10:16:57

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#7 2014-05-08 10:19:58

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#8 2014-05-08 10:22:00

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#9 2014-05-08 10:23:29

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#10 2014-05-08 10:31:15

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#11 2014-05-08 11:06:43

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#12 2014-05-08 12:46:12

Re: Family protection cost efficiency

#13 2014-05-08 14:44:09

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#14 2014-05-08 15:01:48

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#15 2014-05-09 07:57:11

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