Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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lmao this game...
I went back into henson to try to map out the front lock area and WHY did I step on the dog....
Sometimes my brain just doesn't register the dogs. Oh well, at least the paintings are back to the market.
So does that mean I am the first to have ever legit robbed the original micheal elbert price design?
Read up on these forums... there is a lot of arcane trickery that most people would never figure out on their own!
Yeah it would be awesome to see the design; however, a few things- first... the design is basically two parts. First a lock and then behind that a giant grid of cat locked powered doors. It looks like the vault can go ANYWHERE In the grid, in theory. I havn't really tried this technique in any maps before so I'm not sure how many grid cells you can use? It took me about 50k in tools to check both the far corners, so I imagine you can blow through 100k easily just looking for the vault. wife or kids are a serious weakness here and is the ONLY reason I was able to get the vault.
Well, a suicide scout can basically see the cheapest path to the vault anyays- so I'm not sure it matters. Yeah it was pretty apparent to me early on that it can't hold money the same way hensons house can. Maybe a house that combines both concepts, a binary clock with a magic dance that leads into a grid of powered door cat bunkers would be better?
I don't think my current house has any 'design' flaws per say. It is pretty honest to the owner and the robber about what it does. As far as I know, there is no way to exploit it to spend less money. It is either you get the combination or you spend a lot of money- those are the only two ways to do it. That is pretty much the same as henson, except I think the likely hood of guessing the dance is much lower and the cost to brute force is substantially more. The only reason it only cost me about 40K is I had gotten lucky and found the wife AND had crowbared so many doors- which messed up the cat. If I had not found the wife it could have easily cost 100k to find the correct cat path.
I've done it!!!
Henson robbed!
It can be done...
That being said, after analysis.. I got somewhat lucky. I also think that is probably the BEST possible design, the best I've ever seen... much better than my own combo lock clock design in just about every way. Also, much better than I actually assumed it was. What threw me off was that the vault was NOT in the upper or lower right; therefore, it could be anywhere in the power door grid.
I could be wrong, but after seeing how the front works, without completely understanding the dance, I can at least understand the concept. The entrance is designed like a intrusion detection system. The chiwawa prevents the robber from moving up or down. If you happen to step up or down, the cat runs into the bunker. I believe that a double paradox circuit is used to power the door that blocks the cat- or possibly a signal is used to maintain power to the door. The reason is that if you cut the electric floor while unpowered, it opens the door- which essentially sets the map into brute force mode. The only thing you can possibly do is dance on the electric floor and hope that you get it right- which you probably won't because it at least somewhat, if not extremely, complex.
It is a much different design of any other house. Basically, the front is an intrusion detection system with the majority of the map being a grid of cell cat bunkers. I've seen this technique before but never with so many powered doors. Also, all other parts of the map revolve around the entrance which has a priority dedicated towards detecting when the robber uses tools or deviates from the dance.
I assumed that the vault would be at top or bottom right through a series of cat bunkers. After getting to the top and bottom right, I thought I had messed up and lost all my money. For no particular reason I thought to start knocking doors down and I found the wife. This was really the flaw in the whole thing. If I had not found the wife it would have been very unlikely that I got the vault. Basically, beyond the first part is a huge grid of powered-door cat bunkers. The vault could be anywhere in that grid and therefore the worse case senario is that you have to break into each grid cell to find the vault. That could be VERY expensive. For some odd reason I was able to step up to her without her grabbing the gun. This was a huge risk to me as if she stepped onto the shotgun I would have been killed and henson would have received the bounty. As a result, I took 120k from her and then when I left the state was "saved". This is the flaw in the design that allowed me to rob the vault, because I opened doors straight back, causing the cat to run this way, the cat didn't close the original path. Because I had saved the state, the cat no longer ran down the corridor right and followed my path, leaving the path to the vault completely open. This way I was able to return on a 2nd trip and follow the path to the vault. In other words, because I broke the cat bunker path and saved the state, the vault path powered doors remained open.
I'm going to go ahead and share my map- minus the combination. Actually, it is nothing useful to a robber because it does not technically give any more useful information to a robber than what can be gathered from a tool-less death run.
http://castledraft.com/editor/28YFCx
Interesting thing here is that- no matter what, if you enter the clock floor- you are trapped and must know the combination or you will die. Only one combination can be tried each run. Given there is only 256 combinations, it is just a matter of time before somebody guesses it! It is also a very effective killer and typically retains a large number of tools. It is designed to always cost the same to brute force it no matter which way you go. It is impervious to all the weaknesses that plague other combo lock maps. It is a single puzzle that is backed up by numerous layers of protection- something that was thought impossible in the game and promoted a multi-modular design. Although this is all true, it is much more costly to defeat henson, and any robber with around 30,000 should easily get to my vault.
Haha nice work with bonds place. I'm going to go ahead and take a guess that this was done by Henson. The funny thing is I was totally expecting somebody to do something like that eventually. I actually even thought somebody might do exactly what was done. Sadly, the odds seemed so low to me that I didn't even look. Fortunately, I was able to wait out the chills and get the bounty I left and rebuild. On a positive note, I think I improved upon my previous design.
I have 2 accounts. I feel like, with the current neighborhood, the economy would be numb without this. I can also clearly tell that there is at least one other player with multiple accounts. I usually don't start a house until I get a decent score because the type of house I want to build is terribly expensive and you need at least 10k to get started. Lately, I havn't had any house so I would santa run everybody with both accounts until I could find something with a big score.
JWG's house is gone?
Haha. I knew that if I did that enough times it would kill the dog and block the cat. I honestly thought I was going to score the vault, so it looks like you won in the end!
Anybody on the other community server? Seems to be a lot of houses on it.
GotABigTrap wrote:Which house is yours? It is probably me. I often make stupid mistakes.
i'm chang,
i apologize for the initial layout (the double cat bunker), i had no starting plan so i used a stupid bunker to get some money.now i have a 2way house, and i think you're the one who's deep scouting the upper side.
yeah your new house is much more fun than the double cat bunkers.
Also, with JWG still around, its like the game really hasn't died! I wish some other old players would return to spice it up. I think I sort of understand JWG house but I just don't quite know the dance. I don't want to divulge information but I definitely can understand the security concept. I remember the first times I saw the concept back with Price and I was so dumbfounded by it.
ON a side note, I cannot understand how self test is even possible with JWG's house. Clearly I am missing something and I am sure it is possible but I just don't see how.
Ahh that house is brilliant.
Which house is yours? It is probably me. I often make stupid mistakes.
Bah he bit the dust. I was tring to find a way to require more saws to brute force it, but I had it up to requiring at least 8 ladders. Was walking around and accidently into a pit.
Well that teaches me to be nosey. Just dropped an ok bounty in your house. Was only meant to be a pre scout but went further than i should have. And my house was worth about 13k at the time
I was totally surprised to see Erdmann's 11k bounty. when I saw it I guessed you had died at the evil cat/dog trap. The trap is one of those evil traps that has no escape. Basically, once you step on that tile, if you hadn't put in the combination, you are doomed regardless of tools. Josh seems to play differently as he always brute forces every single tile.
Yeah, If I were you I would take control as soon as I could. I guess I'll have to wait for you to get some more money and see how the house improves.
It should not have survived that second attempt... next time I'll bring more tools even if I know I can do it with less. One saw cost me about $30,000 there.
Overall, I'm glad that the neighbourhood is thriving right now and am in no hurray to clean it up. This might be a mistake though if someone else does and then comes at me with the collective wealth of everyone else.
Yeah personally I don't see how I can possibly take you on given your vast resources. Also, my house is tricky and does require a lot of tools, but it is too easy to map out and too much information is divulged. Additionally, somebody will guess the combo lock eventually. I knew going in that my house has serious weaknesses. I'm trying to find ways of making it better. I did get super lucky and for that I am grateful that I was even just able to waste some of your money.
Okay, I thought nobody really cared about that stuff anymore. No map hack, but yeah if you have a broken house I may gain information through my friends old account. If it is a big deal won't do it. Honestly, most of the money I got to start was because I robbed a combo lock house, then I got a 6k bounty. On top of that some other bounties.
On a side note, I'm sure some others use duel accounts because I never see them enter my house and then they come in somehow knowing the layout, but to me it was just a greater challenge to protect against.
So what is acceptable?
The absolute downfall of this house is that it is mostly obvious what you need to brute force it; therefore, it will only really hold so much money. While this is true with any house, I think that this house divulges far too much information. However, you did find a few weaknesses. The objective is to require at least 7 ladders to get to the vault, but clearly you were able to find a way around that.
At any rate, I'm glad to see it survived 2 attempts.
I'm sorry I took it down Josh, but I really don't think you need the money and I obviously do!
I got pretty lucky and robbed a combo lock map for 8k, then I immediately started building out the trap doors/electric floors. This WAS a house I always wanted to build out but I always suicide by accident on the clock floors. Also, I had a pretty sneaky early trap - before the house completely finished - I bagged a few high profile bounties with a sneaky trap - 1 for 6000, a few 1000's. Also, I noticed that somebody was dumping a lot of tools in a few already solved houses and kept a look out for those.
Yes it is completely true, you cannot use any tools unless you brute force every tile on your way to the vault. Assuming you have not chosen to brute force the entire path, it also has the absolutely most perfect combo-lock commit ever built, meaning that you only ever get one shot at the combination each visit.
Actually I set that whole thing up today to look completely safe and innocent. Basically the pit is hooked up to a binary clock that there is no way to test without tools because the toggle switches make it very difficult. Put in the correct combo and the pit stays closed. Obviously with a little knowledge it is VERY easy to get to the safe, but I thought it may trick somebody lol.
The whole point was just to try to trick a experienced robber into thinking it was safe.
haha which house is yours. I like to imagine that the only players left are me, Jason and a bunch of his alts. But I will have you know that I have an impenetrable house design that I will unleash as soon as I take down another big house.
This is a non existent example house, but I've had a bunch of these. It is so easy to mess up self test due to accidental bugs in the map. Going through and replacing with lights is the right thing to do but it is easy to get confused changing it back. I've had like 5 different of these things with over 90k put into them, but in the end usually it is an unpowered trapdoor or a electric floor that is in the wrong spot that gets me. Specifically, what I mean is the 1 bit clocks and alternating floors. It seems with this method you can reinforce a door with more than just a powered door and wood. For example, this house would require like 7 ladder, 1 crowbar, a crapload of saws/wirecutters/water. Although I suppose you could ladder across to the magic dance area, but this part could easily be improved.
It seems that this is the only way to do this. For example, for each modular trap, you can realy only protect one module with a single trapdoor/powered door because the rest can just be sawed through. This resulted in a lot of maps that have many modules and very thick wooden walls to protect on combo lock maps. However, using multiple single bit clocks to power alternating floors makes it so it is impossible ot use tools without doing it from the doormat. Anybody else tried this?
I love linear designs that have one complex puzzle. The problem with these is that the vault location is usually more obvious. One huge advantage is that the robber is less likely to gain information from a visit that would aid in future visits. Another fault is that it doesn't really adhere the modular approach, which will put more trapdoors or powered doors in the robbers path. The modular approach is much more likely to give information away over time, which is why houses like this eventually fall. Each time the robber learns more, making future visits cheaper. On the other hand, the game discourages single module approaches because they are easy to brute force. This led me to try a balance of several complex puzzles. This type of thing usually seems to work the best in my experience. These would take awhile to build so I would usually throw down a cheap house with a single complex solution. The problem with these was always very obvious, brute force requires just one expensive tool and a bunch of saws. It takes up a lot of space, but I've found a great way to fortify single modules in my current house using several 1 bit clocks.