Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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This map you had to walk up hallways 1-2 and 5 while double stepping the main hallway at steps 2-5-7-8 from the dog window.
The easiest way for the dance is to walk 2 steps from the window east, then walk back, then 5 steps and walk back to the window, then 7 steps, then back to window, then 8 steps, back to window and then go to vault.
yes exactly...
It was totally vulnerable to saws, mind you it was much better after the 12k upgrade, but I don't have that map as I died. I have a new plan for this next time I get some money. The idea is that you must begin by using tools at the doormat, which would disable all the powered trap doors. If you use tools anywhere but the doormat first, you die! The design must conform to this and somehow still be able to withstand brute force.
http://castledraft.com/editor/1iWRHB
Died while doing a 12k upgrade. Not sure why but the floors unexpectedly turned off haha. It was working good because it was completely impossible to use tools unless you did so from the doormat, which would break all the floors. Otherwise, tool use anywhere else would instantly kill you. That way you'd have to use water on the first electric floor at the doormat, then saw your way all the way to the vault. At least it would require many saws, but that was kind of a weakness that I was trying to find a way around.
What I wanted to do was have a short path at the start with a combo lock in the lower left. the problem was money so I had to start with a cheaper magic dance. Adding the upper lock was painful to the design because they naturally work better facing downward. I wanted to have a lock that was impossible to use tools on that would maintain the power and disallow tool use. If you solved the lock you would have to follow one of many paths to the vault, which if the wrong one is picked it would turn off all the power (preferably while you stand on a trap door). I think it is a good idea but you'd need some way to minimize power lines and maximize the amount of saws necessary + add in dogs that would require guns to bypass. The self tests are gut wrenching and who knows why I fell into the pit but I did!
Ahh I think I just found one of the vault locations.
ah yes I had some idea what was beyond the first area as I had scouted it out before it was nearly completed. The furthest I made it was to the area after the first locked room. One day when it just got started I was all over the place but that doesn't really count.
Haha I wondered if that house was an ordered lock because of the way the commit doors were set up. Ever since Blips post I've made quite a few ordered locks and currently I have a similar house in fortress theory, but there are a few differences. For one, my lock can't have as many buttons because I was trying to fix some flaws that come with ordered locks.
I've been experimenting with combo locks pretty extensively here and there. The biggest problem with ordered lock is this- power must be on while buttons are pressed. If the robber can disable and re-enable power somehow, in tests I was able to solve locks out of order. Secondly, because power must be on, you cannot use electric floors to power the buttons. I found a design that works with electric floors by using a paradox circuit. Then each button gets power memory with one way propogation. This way, once button is pressed, it is impossible to unpress it or press it again with any tools. Because I wanted the floor to activate as a commit button to the lock, I needed a 2nd power memory for each button with all the ordering logic between the two power memories. In one map, I had a 3 button ordered lock with this logic. I was using a 1 bit clock and paradox circuit to power the buttons. This map was supposed to be a simple test of concept but it pulled in loads of money. I had it set so that you step on a button as you enter which would lock you behind a power door. Everybody kept cutting the wire to the power door, but this would also break the combo lock. Once they commit their combnation, alternating electric floor pairs would activate, which would require several wire cutters to leave.
Because you can trip memory power components with a paradox powered circuit, paradox circuits work well with ordered locks;however, if you want the floor to activate, you need more wiring memory and logic to prevent somebody from breaking the circuit, hitting most of the buttons and then pressing the commit. The design I've described will handle that case.
yeah I've made a come back. After that death, I successfully robbed somebody for around 12k. This house was weird. I believe It had a massive combo lock where it appeared to be hooked into a paradox circuit which would shut the power off to the buttons when the right combo was entered. There was a long line of toggle switches and lights above the combo lock buttons which were entertaining to play with. The point was, I started hitting buttons and I see that the lights went off. This was a dead giveaway that this was the right combo - as you press- so for the future, don't do it that way. I do have a house I've built with the new fortune sitting at 4147$
Yes I saw the enjoy house before. I remember it was a room you go in and the dogs get ya. Yes I've been to the newer version before and saw the many many dogs. As a result, with my robbery, I made it a point to avoid any of the places that would likely have a dog behind the door.
aaahhh and I died in a self test
I must say, I had no idea why I brought the tools I did. Just one ladder, some saws, just few meats..
Then I fumbled around your mansion with no clue what I was doing. I find a room full of buttons that was completely incompressible. I've been to this place before and I know of your many dogs. how the hell one would solve this puzzle properly eludes me, but Ass over tea kettle is now mine! Yes that's right I've found your vault. I was not even planning on robbing you, just wanted to come by and mess with your hounds but I found the button room and then as I was about to allow your electric floors to fry me, I stumbled across your vault. What have I done! Now I must protect this investment as ass over tea kettle is highly sought after.
Okay so I was Herbert Thompson. stupidly walked into a dog at Grants place. Whoever did that with the wall very clever. To make matters worse, I had even brought a dog meat in case of dog, but I didn't expect it at the combo lock. Well played!
Well, there is like 17k there now so enjoy!
for now, enjoy the design I like to call Cat Island. Sadly I havn't had any serious attempt, but I think that it would have gone down like this. Like 50 waters and wire cutters + a few crow bars, or a bunch of ladders to get to the center.
So I guess the housewarming is cancelled. Yeah I've died so much in this game with a good house I don't really even feel the pain of it anymore.
To be honest all your knowledge carries over. I like experimenting with new stuff.
I'm pretty sure I was victim #1 because I tried right after the original post
How did Mr. Webb die?
That was me.. I decided to replace all the electric floors with tons of trap doors. I was doing some testing and forgot that the trap door down in the corner had no power. I was running down them carelessly and saw myself fall into the corner tile that was not powered!
A few tried to brute force but failed. One guy should have had it but he made a big mistake pouring water on a power supply.
http://castledraft.com/editor/jO6Ndh
Here is an example that I've been playing with. In this example, two buttons must be pressed (last two); however, you must press the last button before the middle. In this design, if you press the middle first, it cannot be solved by sawing the middle. Secondly, if you press the first button, it cannot be sawed as we store the charge in a memory cell. Its probably the simplest example, but I think blips version was a bit more scalable for size.
possibilities are something like listed below. Maybe i'm missing some but not sure. That is like 3 X stronger than a typical 3 bit lock, but it does take up a lot more space. On the other hand, similar can be done for 4-bits to achieve a much better results. The nice thing about 3 bit locks is people are more likely to try it.
3+(3*2)+(3*2*1)=15
1
2
3
1,2
2,1
1,3
3,1
2,3
3,2
3,1,2
3,2,1
2,1,3
2,3,1
1,2,3
1,3,2
On the other hand, similar can be done for 4-bits to achieve a much better results. Although, its tougher in a 4 bit example to completely protect from saw attacks. However, permutations would be more like
4+(4*3)+(4*3*2)+(4*3*2*1)=64
It would be twice as good as a 5-bit lock and offer some protection against saw attacks
http://castledraft.com/editor/aLGnGu
Actually, if the robber presses a button out of order,sawwing does no good because the memory power will continue to break the circuit for the unpowered cell that you want to enable.
my fav trick lately is try to club one of the kids on the trigger lock (wife must be out of site) or she will trap you when she goes to the kid. This way you can come back and club the wife as she wont' be able to pick up the shotgun.
blackout,
people do it and there isn't any enforcement, but people notice blatant exploitation of it very quickly.
That being said, 2000 is enough to build something tricky, but you have to be smart about it. There was a 1000 house contest, search for it on the forums. These houses actually will do a decent job, but don't copy them exatly. The key is to keep like 1k money to attract some robbers who, like you, have only 2k starting money and they want to get a little more to start their house. These people will be more likely to take risks. The key is to fool these people. Your best bet is to do a magic dance to vault with a cat or chiwawa and keep the wife out of site, but put a dog on the path to the wife so if anybody sees the dog, it will be 2 spaces away. That way they need some extra tools just to get around that dog.
my god, it's full of pits!
Saws don't work on cats. You'll need a brick or club.
I don't think cheating is the problem. I think its blown way out of proportion
Lmao I was Vasquez. I worried it would be THAT easy, but I suppose you did come fairly well tooled. I cannot believe you guessed the lock/dance! bravo bravo Fejardo.
My question is, is it easy to change the buttons and their order?
hehe Dickerson is dead! I made a bad mistake just messing around. Hilarious! gave a 7k or so bounty.
how can you tell what the combination is or how do you set it?
The biggest flaw in the map is that the buttons are not sticky. All you need is a doorstop. Let the dog see you and walk back out to the enterance hallway, step him down to be adjacent to the trap door. At this point it is a matter of trying all the combinations. You can basically do the same thing for the 2nd dog. Once the first lock is solved you let the 2nd dog see you, backtrack to the enterance again to get him to power the trapdoor. Since you can try all this with just a doorstop, I don't think it would last long. One thing I usually do is power the buttons with electric floor so the only way back is to break the lock itself.
Using a leap of faith is a pretty good idea, but you should do something to constrain the dog a bit more. For example, make it so the dog will be killed if the robber tries to backtrack once it has seen you.
Well, if the source is closed, I think the biggest problem is that the maps are encrypted by a secret key that is readable through a simple hex dump. I havn't looked at the code at all, but I am in software engineering field. That being said, the point was made that the only way to really fix this is for the server to not trust the client. With the current state, anybody could figure out the client/server protocols and design custom clients, especially clients which are based off the original source code, which makes it very easy to do.
Given the facts, I don't think anybody should be surprised that this can be hacked. Probably the only thing you can do in the current state is make things incredibly obscure, but this won't really fix the problem; therefore, I imagine there isn't much point.
I would like to hear what Jason thinks about the feasibility of having the server perform game logic. This sort of thing could be distributed easily across multiple application servers which are sharing a MySQL database. The question is, could such a thing even be feasible. IF not, then we can just eliminate the possibility without thinking about the number of players.