Discuss the massively-multiplayer home defense game.
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Yeah, you've got to watch out for dogs that have seen you....
But Li's house is an extreme exploit of the "what's logically visible" algorithm. That far-end pitbull is just BARELY visible through the gap in the diagonal walls...
Hmm... this is a problem! I'll work on it.
Doors visible behind doors is a side-effect of some hairy "what should be visible" logic that I barely understand as I read through it. I'll need to fix that!
There are also some ugly, cut-off looking walls in Simoon's screen shot.
Please, if anyone notices anything that looks less-than-beautiful (or gives more info than it should to gamma-rampers) with the new visibility code, press "=" and send me that screen shot!
I've tested a bunch of configurations of tiles, but it's clear that I've missed some.
arakira:
There are some speed control keys in the game that can be turned on. Look for settings/enableSpeedControlKeys.ini and set that to 1.
After that, you can control game frame rate with these keys:
^ Slow 2 FPS
& Normal 60 FPS
* 120 FPS
( 240 FPS
) 480 FPS
Essentially, SHIFT plus the keys 6 through 0 becomes a row of speed control keys like on a tape deck. It effects the whole game (but also works if you're watching a recording).
Of course, you computer might not actually be able to do 480 FPS... in that case, it will simply run as fast as possible.
Also, on my machines, higher frame rates become possible if I move the window most of the way off the edge of the screen (so that the whole thing doesn't need to be redrawn by the graphics card). You can leave the top-left corner visible so that you can watch the playback percentage display.
That helps me watch longer game recordings and "get to the good part" faster.
Anyone have Steam on Linux? Please email me if you do!
Okay, check out v27, just released.
It allows stuff to be seen around corners, so there's absolutely no pop in as you move around... but, if something's really behind a wall or door, it's invisible.
Yes, Josh, I agree that the game doesn't look as "solid" now, and I'm not totally happy with it.
Maybe there's something halfway in between.... like, only applying the "hiding" to things that are really worth hiding, like mobiles, family, and the vault? But always drawing all walls and structural (doors/windows) objects, no matter how "invisible" they are, logically?
I don't think that a dog suddenly appearing as you round the bend is as strange looking as a wall suddenly appearing!
On the other hand, not knowing ANYTHING about what's behind a solid wall is good in all cases (why should you know that a window is back there behind this wall?) The problem is on the edges, where things are not logically visible, but can be clearly seen under the shroud edge. Then, they look like they pop in when they become visible.
Maybe just drawing all tiles that happen to be next to a visible, non-vision blocking tile? I'll experiment a bit more...
Whoa! Arakira, I've never seen this before, and the recent changes shouldn't have caused it. I just tried v26, and I can't reproduce this behavior.
Can you send me a recordedGame file that shows it happening? You can check which file is the right one by dropping them in playbackGame and launching the game to watch them.
If you find the recordedGame, send to: jasonrohrer@fastmail.fm
Okay, I've got v26 builds posted to Steam, and I need 9 people to help me test it. I'll give you a steam key, and then it should automatically connect you to your house once you log in through Steam.
Since Steam works on 3 platforms, I need 3 people from each platform: 3 linux people, 3 windows people, and 3 mac.
You MUST have a Steam account to do this test.
Please email me: jasonrohrer@fastmail.fm
In your email, include the following info:
--Your platform
--Your current download code
Yeah, on brighter monitors, it kinda gives the game a spookier feel....
What's around that corner? Looks like nothing, but then step forward and something scary might fade into view.
Yes, that's possible too!
Yeah, I get why you would want those highlights there.... hmm...
But the problem with highlighting "empty floor" spots where something is removed is that it gives you no information about how to "correct" that to make the change highlight go away. Like, you remove a concrete wall, so there's a green-highlighted empty floor there now... and then later, you're trying to put it back the way that it was... so you have to remember what was there anyway!
The same is true of the other highlights (like, if you replace wood with concrete, there's a highlight there, and it doesn't tell you how to revert it). But since highlights only symbolize "money spent" and not necessarily "all changes", you can easily "fix" that highlight by simply removing the concrete (and thus not spending that money).
So, there is a certain logic to the way that it works. It also symbolizes exactly how the server is going to bill you for what it bills you for (it computes the exact same "new placements" diff and bills you just for that).
So... a suggestion for you: why not put an innocuous place-holder object (like... maybe indicator lights) in the place of the stuff that you remove, to remind yourself where you need to put a wall (or door) back later?
It will be diff-highlighted for you, to remind you to put the real object back later. And you have two different colors of lights to work with (for two different "notes to self" that you might leave... like, orange to make holes in walls, and green to temporarily remove doors).
I'm sure you're already doing this with chihuahuas as placeholders for pitbulls when testing....
This release improves the visibility code in the game to make non-visible objects under the shroud truly not visible on the screen. In previous versions, objects under the edge of the shroud could be vaguely seen (and with the help of a boosted monitor gamma setting, they could be clearly seen). Now non-visible objects are not drawn at all. The upshot is that a single-thickness wall is now sufficient for visually hiding other objects.
A full list of changes can be found here:
Thanks for the input here Lithium.
The rich players are already, generally, de-motivated from picking on little folks, because they have a lot to lose if they make a mistake, and stealing your $250 just isn't worth it. If you did lure one of them in, and manage to kill one, you'd likely earn a huge bounty.
I'm guessing that the people doing this to you are more low-level. Maybe even someone starting a fresh life and spending all $2000 on tools, just on a lark.
Anyway, if you find a tape where it looks like someone did this to you, send me an email with the full name of the robber: jasonrohrer@fastmail.fm
Then, I can look in the server logs and tell you the whole story about where this person came from, how they afforded the tools, and what they did after robbing you.
As far as strategy, everyone starts at 0, and eventually dies (or is robbed blind) and goes back to 0 again. Even the rich are vulnerable, and no one is rich forever in this game. Yes, some of them have "figured stuff out" in terms of advanced building tricks and so on...
Really, the name of the game, strategy-wise, is to build a house that somehow tricks people. Maybe it looks like an easy house... but has some deadly trick to it. "Trick" doesn't actually cost very much money to construct, and rich people don't have that much of an advantage when it comes to tricks.
Well, the logic was that it shows you what you're paying to change (that's why it's green, the same color as the "-$536" display that shows how much you've spent on these changes---the changes also turn red when you spend too much, just like the spent total number turns red).
Removing stuff is free, so it's not factored into how much you are spending.
So, let's say you're making changes, and your $25 over... those change highlights will help you figure out how to trim $25 from you changes (by removing something that you built that cost money).
Okay, I finally solved this problem.
The way v26 works is that non-visible tiles fade out to fully transparent. If the game thinks you can't see it, and it can't see you (i.e., it won't react to your presence or start chasing you), then you actually can't see it on the screen, no matter what you do to your gamma.
One exception is made for "connected" tiles that you could infer anyway from visible tiles on the edge of the shroud. This ensures visual consistency of interconnecting walls and wires and prevents a wall or wire from looking "cut off" as it goes into the shroud. This gives you no additional information about what's back there, because the part of the wall/wire that you can see (like, the top bar of a wall T junction) clearly tells you that the | bar of the T is back there in the shroud. If you ramp up your gamma, you can indeed see the tip of the | bar under the shroud, but so what?
Anyway, the upshot is that one wall thickness is all that's needed to truly hide things, even the vault, and you can no longer see what's behind a door before opening it. This is a vast improvement to the game.
And in terms of pop-out, visible objects that become obscured after you (or they) move fade out slowly into the shroud.... into the mystic chords of memory. So, with your gamma ramped, you might be able to see them a bit longer than other people, but they still fade completely in a few seconds.
Note that the New image there is taken on exactly the same map. Note the wooden T junction visible under the shroud, but the invisible vault and concrete T junction. Because the concrete wall is not connected to the wooden wall, it can be faded out with no visual inconsistency (and seeing that part of the wooden wall doesn't tell you that the concrete wall is back there).
Re: steam testing
I'll have to look into that. Maybe there's a way I can give a selected list of people access to the build through steam to help iron out any issues. It's always kinda scary to be the only one testing the Steam build (which is what I did last time, for Star-filled Sky).
Re: larger player base
Oh, yeah, for sure! I just hope it doesn't crash the server...
There will be thousands on day 1, easily.
I thought a LOT about fake vaults way back in the beginning, before coding the game.
It seemed like an awesome idea at first. But then I realized that people would have 100s of fake vaults installed in their houses, and it would turn the whole thing into a guessing game (minesweeper?) which isn't that interesting.
Yes, you could limit it to just one fake vault, but... nothing else in the game is limited in that way. Anyway, people can already build guessing-game type things if they want.
Things were bad in 1991, folks.
Two are enough in v25, yes.
I agree that this is an issue, still. In fact, it may have gotten a bit worse in v25, because before, EVERYONE could see past a 1-thick wall. Now, that the shadows are darker, you really have to ramp your gamma to see what's back there. So, where before, people were only ramping to see the furthest reaches (past 2-thick walls), now the most basic advantage (seeing behind a single wall) can only be had by the experts.
Some options:
1) Simply skip drawing stuff that's not supposed to be visible. Problem: stuff will visually "pop" into existence when it becomes visible (under the shifting shroud, some dog will pop in). Better, maybe: fade stuff that is visible in and out to match the shroud's changes. Shroud moves, dogs fade in.
2) Draw a hard black "wall" behind vision-blocking things that fully covers what's back there. Problem: these black boxes are ugly and will also pop in and out as the vision changes.
3) Tighten up the edge of the shroud to hide what's back there with the shroud itself. Problem: shroud is actually implemented as a low-res pixel map, which requires a lot of blurring to make it look fluid and non-blocky. A tight edge isn't possible... well, actually, let me look into that (I could up the resolution of the pixel map and see what happens).
Yeah, Josh, that's the kind of stuff that makes me hesitate too.
Right now, the game has a pretty calculated feel, and it's always fair, which is really important. When you outsmart someone, you feel smart... maybe a bit lucky sometimes, but mostly smart.
I think that not showing house values would remove the calculation aspect and give the whole thing a lottery feel.
And the calculation stuff (like, what tools can I use to get into this house without spending more than the house is worth?) isn't totally dry. You have to study the house and look for the cheapest weakpoint. If the house is worth more, suddenly something that used to be a strong point becomes feasible. I think that's pretty cool.
Yeah, thematically, the club is too slow, and you don't dare attempt it.... or something!
But it's mostly a mechanical thing: to make the club weaker than the gun.
Well, they only work when the door is already open, which is why they are cheaper than the crowbar.
Yeah... you bring up a good point.
"Some people have nothing to lose" while "Others have a lot to lose" is a really important emergent dynamic in this game that nicely parallels the real-life dynamics of perpetrator/victim/fear.
The suicide runners are really just young kids with a death wish. I was one of those young kids once. I no longer am.
So, the strange part isn't the death wish... but the family hanging around in the background.
It almost feels like you shouldn't get a family until you've been alive for a while.... that would make a lot of sense. Though as I think about how this could work (like, a wife shows up first, and then each kid, one by one), I really don't want to get into a family-growth sim... at all.
SO... probably best to just leave that dissonance in there. You start the game as a family man each time. That's what the game is about. Sometimes, you don't feel like behaving like a good family man. But that's all you. Each family is unique and somewhat worth protecting.
Also, as a suicide runner who gets lucky with a score, coming home to a dead, defenseless wife is justice served.
Agricola. Hungry mouths to feed!
My answer is that family feeding/management wasn't important to this game. The family members are just icons that are part of the security landscape.
Whoa! This is a HUGE idea....
After all, in real life, you break in not really knowing what might be in the house that's worth stealing.
Still, I wonder about "blind" sorting like you're suggesting. Maybe sorting by number of deaths or something else? Also, if the value isn't shown, why should the other stats (attempts/deaths) be shown? It would be pretty cool to just have a list of names with no stats at all.
And it seems like there should be some way to "discover" that a house has a lot of money in it. You know... like the way rumors of hidden wealth lead to robberies (at least in the movies). So... maybe upon scouting, if you get close enough to the vault, you can mouse over for a value estimate? Well, but that would mean the value estimate would need to be in the protocol for the house check out, which means that people would just sniff the protocol to get that value without ever nearing the vault.
Hmm... actually, rumors could spread about a robber who has been successful in a bunch of houses. "Mr. Stevens just robbed 5 people this afternoon... I bet his vault is loaded". But it could be set so that you never know for sure.
Anyway, this would be a MAJOR change to the climate and strategy of the game.... and it's kind of late to be making major changes like that. I mean... we've been robbing houses based on their estimated value for 10 months now, and a bunch of aspects of the game are built around that (like leaving some money in your house to attract robbers for their bounty).
Thoughts?